DD and her anger issues. how to deal with it

[Sugardummy]

My dd is 10 years old.
A bit of back story...
Her DF is no longer in her life. He is somewhat of a psychopath, has no concern over others and never shows any remorse for his actions.
I have seen this side to my dd and hoped my parenting would help her become the opposite.

Only now she is 10 and there doesnt seem to be any change.
She is as angry as she always was, only she is getting bigger and stronger with it.
Her younger brother suffers because of this.
He is 9 and has the same df.

As soon as he speaks she will shout at him "shut up i dont care". She will not let him do anything. Even so much as butter a slice of bread. She will snatch the things off him and tell him he is doing it wrong calling him names.
If and when he stands up for himself, it could be as simple as "thanx, but i want to do this myself" she will get overly aggressive, name call some more and resort to physical violence.

I have tried every punishment imaginable.
I do not lift hands, and there is a rule that no hands or feet or any kind of violence is to be used in this house. All kids follow, but my dd thinks this rule does not apply to her.

Today she threatened to smack my ds over the head with a tin of food. He told me, and so i told her off. This resulted in her getting very angry, and cocky with me. Laughing whenever i told her how wrong it was.
In the end i told her to get out of my sight. She said she didnt know that a tin would hurt. Then went on to tell me i may aswel put her in a home as she hates it here anyway.

I later asked her why she thought she should go into a home and she said it was out of anger and she never meant it.
I told her that, that is very wrong to deliberately say things to hurt peoples feelings. Especially considering i had actually done nothing wrong. This was all down to her own threatening behaviour!

This is a common occurence. Daily infact. She will do something aggressive, i will tell her off and then she will be in a huff with me and take it out on me as if i am in the wrong.

She will not take responsibility for her actions, always managing to flip to something somebody else has done...even if it was months ago. Anything to get away from her owning up to her own actions. She also never says sorry.

She is going to therapy. But i am so drained by all of this.
I feel my son is being bullied in his own home and i dont know what to do to make it better for him.

It is heartbreaking to see because if she wants something from him (like using his xbox), she will be nice as pie to him. Until he refuses to do something shes asked, or disagrees with her. Then she shifts to aggression.

I get the same treatment from her if and when i say no to her.
I treat all of my kids the same, she gets the same amount of attention as my other dc.
She is generally happy,until somebody disgarees with her or doesnt do as she wants.

It is really bothering me now as my 3yr thinks it is ok to talk to me like shit because he watches my dd do it to me all of the time. He is also becoming very aggressive.

I have tried taking things away, grounding, sending to bed, sending to her room. Everything.
She just tells me "im still not bored" or "do you really think im bothered"
And i know she really isny bothered. I think she could sit in her room for months with nothing and still be alright.

What on earth can i do to get her to give a little respect?

[StilettoJam]

Have you asked her why she is so angry?

[Sugardummy]

Yes. Her reasons are always because of something somebody else has done, related to why she got angry in the first place.

It could be something that happened years ago, and that will be her reason for it.

Sometimes it is just a plain "i dont know".

I have asked her during her anger outbursts, i have asked in calm settings, i have asked her one on one and ive tried asking in a subtle way.

Sometimes the anger can come out of the blue.
And gobsmack everyone around as we could have all been having a good time. When asking her why she did what she did...it would be down to what happened years ago. He/she did this to me x amount of years ago.

I sometimes get the impression that she enjoys it, as she doesnt appear to be angry. Even though it is angry aggressive. She laughs with it, and can be nice again within seconds. Iyswim

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Sound like you need to engineer something that brings your DD and DS together in a way that they have to stick together and cooperate for once. Does she bully other children at school or do teachers say she's OK there?

[ImperialBlether]

If she's going to therapy, then presumably doctors have accepted there's a problem. What's she like in therapy? What was she like at the doctor's?

It must be really awful seeing her like this, particularly the manipulation. Do you have a partner living with you now? Does your smallest child have a different father? How much contact do you have no with your daughter's father?

[ImperialBlether]

Sorry, I'd not noticed that your daughter doesn't have contact with her dad. I think that has to be a good thing.

What's your daughter like in school? Does she have any friends? Is she ever upset if someone's hurt?

[pictish]

Sounds really difficult.
How is her behaviour at school? Is she able to control her anger there?

[Sugardummy]

At school they say she is very competetive and this can cause problems at times.
She needs to be thr best at whatever she does, and if she is not she keeps going until she can get there. Obviously some kids dont want to keep going and this can cause friction as it causes her to become pushy.

I am always telling them and encouraging them to stick together. Ds goes out of his way tk help her, it is never appreciated and always thrown back in his face, but he keeps going. Where as dd will not do the same, unless she gets something out of it.

Ds was bullied outside by a kid, and instead of dd helping out or taking him away from the situation. She joined the bully and helped bully ds. This has happened a couple of times with different kids.

She will not leave this house without ds though, as she needs him to play with. As soon as they find someone to play with, she will turn on him and encourage the others to do so. Sometimes this backfires and they turn on her. In which case she storms in the house all angry and takes it out on me and then ds gets it in the neck when he comes in

[Sugardummy]

And no she doesnt seem to be bothered when somebody is hurt.
She was very rude to the therapist and spoke to her like shit.
When she was feeling more comfortable she spoke with a better tone, but then started flinging things around the room in a playful manner.

I was so embarrassed, but let her go so the therapist could see what i was talking about.
My dd didnt think there was anything wrong with her behaviour

[Sugardummy]

Imperial - i have no contact with her df and different df for youngest. Also no partner.
Sorry just catching up witb x posts

[pictish]

Was the therapist able to offer any insight or tips?

[Sugardummy]

Not yet, no. I have had help in the past and they also couldnt help me. They just marked down on the forms "psychological problems" and leave me to get on with it.

Mind you, there were severaly sessions. They really did try to help as from the outside it just looks as though i have no control. So they thought i needed to put boundaries in place. I already had them in place (which they could see), but she fails to follow.

[pictish]

Yes it sounds very tricky indeed.
I'm sorry, I don't have anything of use to offer because I have no idea how to proceed. I wanted to extend my sympathy though as it sounds like really hard going.
I'm sure someone else will have something to impart that could help shed some light on this.

Can I ask...you say her conduct mimics that of her father. Do you think that's a result of his influence when he was around and had contact?

[Sugardummy]

Thank you.
Im really not sure as i left him when she was 2 due his abuse. Contact was here and there after that. Sometimes going a year without seeing them. Contact stopped altogether when dd turned 8.

His df was the same, sometimes i wonder if it is in the genes?

[Twinklestein]

How old was your daughter when you ended contact with her father?

A good therapist should be able to give some insight and some support, and if you don't feel that is forthcoming then I would keep plugging away at find someone who can help.

How about focussing this competitiveness and aggression into sports training like karate, judo, dance, gymnastics, athletics. The downside is of course that she could use the training physically against other kids...

[CailinDana]

What's your ds's take on the whole thing? I know it sounds extreme but seeing as things are so bad and you've tried talking to her I would suggest severely limiting her interaction with your ds and instruct him and anyone who is old enough not to interact with her unless she is speaking kindly. Inform DD that you know she knows how to act and unless she is kind she will be ignored. If she is chatty and nice be nice back and be sure to actively engage her, praise her, treat her like the most interesting lovely person you have met. No criticism or negativity. If she turns nasty turn your back and say "I'll talk to you again when you are finished being nasty," then completely ignore. If she is being very shouty or aggressive you and other dcs might have to leave the room. If that occurs be super nice to the other dcs and make out it is a treat to all troop upstairs and have a game.

[Twinklestein]

Just refreshed - potentially in the genes, and also she had 2 years of listening to him absuing you as she was learning language. You two were her entire world for that time.

I wonder if there's latent anger about her father's withdrawal (definitely the right thing - but even so she may feel abandoned nontheless).

[FreshCucumber]

I think your dd is stressed and angry as a baseline feeling. She might also be scared (that you will leave like her dad, that she isn't good enough???)

Dc2 has been a very angry child. And he was forever hitting dc1. His answer ? 'I can not NOT hit dc1'...
What has worked with him is being very calm. Having clear boundaries (such as the ones you have) and being as affectionate as I could. Eg I have been known to go and give him a cuddle when he has been angry and loosing it (after he was send in his bedroom to protect other dcs) giving a quick talk (this is not acceptable. Whatever the reason you can NOT hit x) and then helping him calming down.

Fewer words also has been best ie no lecture and no going about how bad/how it would hurt dc1 etc...

Maybe look at 'How to talk to children'. I found lots of very good ideas in there.

HTH

[FreshCucumber]

Also agree about teaching the other dcs not to accept that behaviour and to be assertive about it.
It's all very nice to say 'stick together' but if this means that she is taking advantage then it is not the right strategy atm.
Btw because of dc2 behaviour I have been intervening a lot between the dcs, much more than I would have otherwise. I wanted to protect the other dcs involved AND make sure that dc2 didn't get away with murder because it was the only way to keep the peace for the others.

[Sugardummy]

I have tried getting her to do gymnastics. She will only go to ones her friends go to. If her friend cant make a session, then she refuses to go.
I thought sod it in the end.
I wouldnt put her into a physical sport as she would use it on her db especially.

When she is angry, i always make sure i speak in a calm voice to her. Sometimes i lose my cool and shout back, but thats when i send her to her room. Which can sometimes take time as she prefers to argue.
But i am pleased she listens to that now.
When younger, i would have to physically remove her and she would put up such a fight, sometimes hitting me..all the while, laughing.

I often worry she would turn to violence towards me. Im only small and she is already almost bigger than me.

I do seperate dd from ds quite often.

If she gives me the "i hate you" i respond with "well i love you" if she tells me she wants to leave i tell her shes here until shes old enough to move out.

Sorry if this is all over the place. In middle of tea

[Anyfuckerisnotguilty]

Perhaps she's lashing out as she's tuck in a cycle and maybe even dislikes/ hates herself

It must be so tough

But perhaps doing stuff where you can praise her as much as possible and tell her how much you love her and how important etc she is to you
General stuff to raise her self esteem
Maybe a new hobby or interest you could get into together?

[Sugardummy]

A hobby or interest for us both is a good idea.
Thank you.

I do get a lot of chances where i praise her. She is brilliant at times. Just the other day she helped me do tea and things, and at times she thoroughly enjoys it.
Its just like a switch is flicked at times.

She can be a great help with the LO and sometimes helps out around the house.

She also has a great personality and is fun to be around.

Its just if you say no, or disagree lol

[Anyfuckerisnotguilty]

Oh, I think that makes it even harder then, as it sounds less like she's doing it because of low self esteem
Which would be an easier thing to fix

I really don't know what else to suggest
I guess you've asked her what she thinks could help her be less mean and less angry and I guess she's says don't know

[Sugardummy]

Yup, i dont know or a shruf of the shoulders.
I get the same response when i ask why she does it.

I have asked what i could do to make things better and she doesnt know that also.

[Twinklestein]

Do any of her friends do any extracurricular activity regularly - ie every week? Something that she can invest in?

If you do any hobby with her I think she might use that time to continue her bullying behaviour pattern, so I think it might be better for her to be doing something outside the family. A coach or teacher won't let her behave the way she does.