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Messy bil situation- Wwyd?

(40 Posts)
louloutheshamed Mon 04-Nov-13 14:39:53

In the whole time I have known dh's brother (he is 28, I have known him for 13 yrs) he has gone from one relationship to the next without a break in between and sometimes a definite overlap. About 4 years ago he met a new gf and within months she was pg. shortly after the baby was born they got married, by which time she was pg again and had a second dd 11 months after the first. His wife was 19 and he was 24.

About a year ago we learned that the relationship was breaking down and then a few months ago bil moved in with another woman who lived with her gran. They then moved into a flat owned by (v wealthy) pil. Bil took up smoking as new gf smokes, and is on ads and is off work on the sick.

Soon to be ex-sil has sent me a photo of a newspaper clipping from 10 years ago saying that new gf has a conviction for child cruelty, the details are hazy but it involved a baby being left with 2 broken legs - the implication is thy new gf was involved and complicit and did not report it as she should have. Sil says this is the reason that she does not live with her own children (2, preteen age) and why bil in the custody arrangements has decided only to see his dds 12 hours per month sad

Now we learn that new gf is 3m pg. She has had treatment in the past for cancer and apparently didn't think she could get pg. I am at a loss as to what to say tbh. I cannot bring myself to congratulate him. I just keep thinking about what an utter mess this child is being brought into. She is still smoking, they are asking pil for money despite living rent free in their flat, I wasn't even sure they had been together for 3 m but evidently they have.

Pil are seeing more of bil than they have in years, because he needs them and their money, but their sensible advice falls on deaf ears and he continues to treat them with disdain and contempt. But they seem to want us all to play happy families, and welcome this gf with open arms, but I am uneasy about her being around my children and I am just exasperated at bil who seems to think that bringing a child into the world is no big deal, as it has happened three times now accidentally. Everything that bil has done in his life has gone to shit, relationships, jobs, finances, cars (he wrote off 2 in a row but pil bailed him out so he didn't have to claim). And I have no confidence that this new relationship will last. Neither dh or I want anything to do with him and i do not want my children around this woman, but pil seem to want to build bridges.

Wwyd in this situation? Does dh have a brotherly duty to bil to give him a chance?

hellsbellsmelons Mon 04-Nov-13 14:52:16

No he doesn't.
It is entirely up to you and your DH what you do here.
If you want nothing to do with them then that's just fine and PIL will need to suck it up.
They can keep enabling his man-child behaviour but they have no right to expect you to comply!
Just get DH to tell them that you won't have anything to do with them.
That basically they are enabling to keep behaving in this manner and that is totally up to them but to keep you guys out of it!

lovetheprintedword Mon 04-Nov-13 14:55:03

I'd stay in touch because someone needs to watch out for that baby. sad

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 04-Nov-13 15:30:15

I work on the basis that parents deserve a second chance but siblings are optional. BIL sounds like a one-man disaster area. If your PILs think that bailing him out all the time is helping, they are sadly deluded. If they want to have a relationship with him, that's their call. They can't force you to do the same.

louloutheshamed Mon 04-Nov-13 15:52:54

Yes, we would like nothing more to do with him, but he hasnt actually done anything to us, it's just the way he treats pil and his dcs and everyone else around him that bothers us.

Terrifies me a bit how one child can turn out such a disaster and the other two are good people hmm

EldritchCleavage Mon 04-Nov-13 16:01:36

Try not to be too hard on PIL, they are silly to keep bailing him out but it must be a terribly hard thing to risk not seeing your grandchildren (perhaps part of why BIL keeps getting girlfriends pregnant?).

Would you refuse to see him at all? I would be tempted to make no effort, and refuse all specific 'getting to know them' invitations but see him eg at Christmas if he happens to be at PILs when you go. I would always be fairly direct and truthful though, no colluding in pretence that everything is ok.

And if you are sure that the information about the new girlfriend is correct (and do check) would you consider informing SS of her pregnancy?

Bogeyface Mon 04-Nov-13 16:09:50

And if you are sure that the information about the new girlfriend is correct (and do check) would you consider informing SS of her pregnancy?

That was my first thought too. If she is living rent free (and possibly not claiming anything if they are living off the in laws) then she may be trying to slip under the net with this baby.

louloutheshamed Mon 04-Nov-13 16:42:32

Yes that is a thought. Such a mess hmm

fifi669 Mon 04-Nov-13 16:49:14

Personally if they were my DCs they wouldn't be going anywhere near her with a conviction such as that! I would also make sure SS are aware.

HowlingTrap Mon 04-Nov-13 17:18:36

Oh god what a mess,

I would tell your DH and tell him she is not going anywhere near those kids and present the evidence to your PIL's , discreetly as possible.

HowlingTrap Mon 04-Nov-13 17:18:47

*your kids

cosydressinggown Mon 04-Nov-13 17:23:39

I would make SS aware too.

Too many people don't because they don't want to cause trouble etc etc. Then hideous cases come to light and too many people knew but didn't quite like to say anything.

Worst case scenario if you tell, they keep an eye but have nothing to worry about. I suspect they do have something to worry about though. I don't believe people who are capable of child cruelty are capable of change.

louloutheshamed Mon 04-Nov-13 18:13:23

How do I go about checking? All I have seen is the newspaper clipping.

IAmNotAMindReader Mon 04-Nov-13 19:45:43

If you have seen the newspaper clipping there will be court reports social services can follow up to get a clearer picture. Definitely give them a heads up.
Just ring them and give as much information as you can, her current address, full name etc.

HauntedFlyingNaanBread Mon 04-Nov-13 20:07:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

louloutheshamed Sun 24-Nov-13 17:05:32

Ok, I need more advice with this. Have been on holiday and this has played on my mind.

We have told pil, who say they already heard the same from ex sil. But because ex sil has 'an agenda' they do not seem to want to take it seriously. I feel like it doesn't matter where the info came from, now that we know it we can't ignore it. They say bil says there is 'another Side' to the story but I take everything he says with a huge pinch of salt.

They say because it was 10 years ago and that she does see one of her dcs at a weekend, that perhaps she deserves a second chance. She has grown up in an area of huge deprivation, she has had cancer, perhaps bil is her chance of happiness, they think. I however have no confidence that this relationship will last.

They have invited her to an annual family holiday in December.

I have said to dh I'm not going if she is. I will not allow my dcs to be the guinea pigs in their experiment to see if she is a reformed character.

Still have not rang ss yet, am building myself up to it.

Didyouhearmeontheradio Sun 24-Nov-13 17:15:55

Check your local police website for information on Sarah's Law - you will not necessarily hear whether your bil's gf is actually a problem from this, but they will ensure that anyone who needs to safeguard their child as a result will do.

optimusic Sun 24-Nov-13 17:24:45

First thing tomorrow pick up the phone and call SS.
So after 10 years, and she is still only allowed to see her child on the weekend.
That says everything.
Maybe SS know already. But it's better for them to know sooner rather than later.

EldritchCleavage Mon 25-Nov-13 12:02:50

I agree. Don't see talking to SS as condemning her, see it as being prudent and taking advice. SIL may or may not face SS intervention but neither her nor your children should be guineas pigs in an experiment to see if she needs that intervention.

louloutheshamed Fri 28-Mar-14 10:00:12

Reviving this thread....

Without going into details, ss are
now involved.

According to bil, his gf was in an abusive relationship with the father of the injured child and did not intervene out of fear...that is his story as to why she has this conviction but she has 2 teen dcs who do not live with her but with (different) gps which should I suppose have been ringing alarm bells.

The baby is due in a matter of weeks. As have apparently just sprung
It on them that they will have to have 24hr supervision for the first year of the baby's life by someone other than bil and gf. Bil quit his job on hear Ing this before he understood that it meant someone other than him.

They have then asked pil if they can move in with them. Yet again pil are having to bail him out, they have already bought him a house, paid off his first wife, allowed him to live in a flat of theirs rent free while his ex wife moves out of the house and now he is asking them to put their lives on hold 24/7 because he has chosen to procreate with a child abuser hmm.

There is another aspect to this which is that pil look after my ds one day a week at their home and web I return to work they were going to have ds2 also. I really don't want my dcs spending regular time with bil and his gf (both still Smokers) in the context of pils "supervision" if (big if) pil decide to let them
Move in....but the alternative is that baby goes into foster care.

God the man is such a liability...

bluestar2 Fri 28-Mar-14 10:16:00

In those circumstances I would find alternative child care. The fact is you don't really know what went on with the gf but it's serious enough for her other kids to be taken away and what your nil said is bollocks. If she herself didn't present a risk ss would not be stating they need 24 hour supervision as that's nota ate taken lightly by them.

Based on this my children would be going nowhere near. I realise the pils will be there but now they would be supervising bil gf and newborn plus mine so I don't think my mind would settle and I also don't think it's a fair worry to put on pils either , ie making sure your children were protected from her too. If something happened they would never forgive themselves and it would possibly destroy any relationship you and dh have with them.

So unfair you and your kids have to lose out from both contact with gps and childcare coz of these idiots.

louloutheshamed Fri 28-Mar-14 10:50:54

Yes that's what I'm thinking.

Pil and ds will be gutted not to see each other every week hmm

CarryOnDancing Fri 28-Mar-14 11:53:11

What a mess! I assume that any time you and your children spent around the gf, you would remain present, so I think I would keep a small percentage of contact, just to look out for the baby.

However, this 24 hour supervision is a huge issue and I agree that you really can't put your children in this ridiculous situation.
Have you told your pils that you and your DH have decided you'd look for alternative care? I wouldn't want them to feel emotionally blackmailed and they really are stuck between a rock and a hard place but they need all the info before they make their decision.

Their poor child hmm

louloutheshamed Fri 28-Mar-14 13:22:18

We haven't told pil yet as this has all emerged v recently and suddenly though I suppose it was inevitable....

I don't want to seem like we're emotionally blackmailing them or forcing them to choose between 2 sets of gdcs but I cannot put my children in that situation...

bluestar2 Fri 28-Mar-14 14:08:03

Tell them as you have put it here. You understand it's an impossible position for them to be in but if it was their children been left with some one known for abuse in the house would they allow it if there was even the tinest chance someone would happen?

I feel so sorry for the gps. They have done their child rearing and just when they were at a point they could enjoy their gc their overgrown son and dil move in and they become legally responsible for their child in some way. It's just all wrong. As for the poor child what chance do they stand.

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