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So we split and now he has a proposition..

(93 Posts)
EllieInTheRoom Sun 03-Nov-13 15:09:19

I need the wise women of MN again. I don't think I am being as strong as I should be. I suspect people might tell me to get a grip, maybe that's what I need.

So it's three weeks since the split. It's been hard work to be honest, mainly because there is no room for him to have DS at his DPs so he has been coming here to have him so there has been more opportunity for him to speak to me.

Also, I think DS has taken it badly, he is very unsettled. Ive posted about that separately this week.

But I Have been looking for new places, had decided me and DS would move in new year, then H would be able to get his own place too. We could all move forward etc.

But anyway, he came yesterday to play with DS and put him to bed. Afterwards he asked if we could talk...

He said his counselling is starting to make him see things clearly. he realises he did nothing to support me since DS came along. For example, i wanted to do a qualification to help me further my business but couldn't because he was never here.

He says he and the counsellor have discussed the fact he has been anxious and stressed and trying to be all things to all people. He doesn't know who he is. He says its not an excuse but knows he treated me badly, it was EA and he is determined to get over his porn addiction.

He wants me to keep this house on for another six months. He wants to live here too in the spare room and support me financially while I do the qualification and he proves to me he is the man I married not the miserable horrible one he became.

he said we can live as separately as I want. And at any time if I think it isn't working I can call it a day. But he hopes in six months I will have seen enough to agree to go to marriage counselling.

I'm worried about DS.

My mum thinks I should do it. She says What have I got to lose?

I'm not sure if I can ever get past some of things that happened. That its all gone too far. But then I think wouldn't it be nice if I could?

I think I have lost the ability to think for myself and I feel so cross with myself. I think what I want and what I feel I ought to do are getting all mixed up.

My brain might explode. Answers on a postcard please!!

EllieInTheRoom Sun 17-Nov-13 21:19:22

Hello again everybody,

He's still applying the pressure to get back together and I am still resisting.

He is now saying that when the dust has settled he wants DS for three days and three nights. The thought of it is just eating me up.

I was arguing about it not being best for DS as he needs routine and H doesn't know from one week to the next how much he is working. He said he is going to change jobs and reduce hours (something he would never do no matter how much I begged him before).

I didn't do very well in the discussion about it, I panicked. To buy myself more time I agreed to go to a counselling session. But I retread this thread and attilas comments so I'll get out of that.

The thought of DS being away so much is so upsetting. Can I stop it?? I wanted to agree the contact without solicitors. Are there any other arguments against or do I need to accept this could happen?

perfectstorm Mon 04-Nov-13 23:48:22

If you tell your ex that your DS is upset and unsettled and not having a clear demarcation between both homes/parents is bad for him, and you think he needs to start taking him out for contact elsewhere then he's fighting for his interests and against your son's if he argues.

Muddily protracted separations must be horrible for kids - they don't know what's going on. Though I do sympathise with the ex on wanting overnights - very different parenting experience - the solution lies in his own hands, in that he can sort somewhere to live which would enable him to parent DS in his own home, not yours.

MistAllChuckingFrighty Mon 04-Nov-13 20:49:58


EllieInTheRoom Mon 04-Nov-13 20:37:26

You're right it is mixed signals isn't it, to be honest, I did sort of agree that in the short term until we each hd our own places sorted out that it actually would be easier on DS to be mainly based at home.

But it IS confusing him as things stand. He is really unsettled at night, this must be the reason. I know it is bound to have an impact but i think his reaction has been more than what you would expect and it must be the way we are handling it.

Right, consider it done. More tips and advice welcome


MistAllChuckingFrighty Mon 04-Nov-13 20:33:19

If he has no suitable place to host overnights, then he does not host overnights. Full stop. Perhaps it will concentrate his mind to sort it out, and stop relying on the fact he clearly expects to have his feet back under your table some time very soon.

he can still have day time contact and either take dc to his parents or do what every other non resident parent who hasn't got their own place does...swimming, park, soft play etc

you are not obliged to provide somewhere for him to interact with his own dc and neither to facilitate his relationship with them

he's a Big Boy now and this is his responsibility to sort out

what is happenign now is giving mixed signals to everybody but mainly to your dc, and he is the important one here

EllieInTheRoom Mon 04-Nov-13 20:32:30

"TBH, there are no particular reasons for overnights. They are asleep most of the time, and I suspect it is a plot for him to weasel his way in"

I agree it probably is, though DS is a very early riser (5.30) so they do have those extra couple of hours before I get home. I know I need to be firm but I don't want to deprive DS. Also Hs work means he can't easily make up the time another day in the week. But is this his problem not mine?

JoinYourPlayfellows Mon 04-Nov-13 20:30:17

Just tell him that since you are separated that it is not fair on any of you, but particularly your son, to have him coming and going from the house.

He needs to sort out accommodation that will allow him to have his son overnight if he wants overnights.

It is not your responsibility to make sure that happens. It is his own.

Lweji Mon 04-Nov-13 20:28:40

TBH, there are no particular reasons for overnights. They are asleep most of the time, and I suspect it is a plot for him to weasel his way back.
Spending the day with his dad gives plenty of quality time together and puts him firmly where he belongs.

Overnight stays at yours and him playing daddy at home WILL confuse your DS more, not the handovers at the door. Your ex is not there anymore and the clearer it is, the easier it will be for your DS.
I'd be adamant about it and wouldn't be open for discussion at all.

EllieInTheRoom Mon 04-Nov-13 20:23:58

I should add the lease on this house is up in the middle of January and financially it makes sense for me to wait until then to move

H wants to stay at his DPs for now. Probably because he is convinced he can get back in the door at some point!

EllieInTheRoom Mon 04-Nov-13 20:21:58

storm thanks, it's nice to be called sane, especially when I am sure there are a few people around my neck of the woods who probably think I'm anything but after the trials of the last few weeks.

terror oh I didn't mean shocked in a bad way, I mean it just made me sit up and think. And also I was surprised that anybody else noticed! Thanks

Everybody else mentioned the issue of contact, and I would actually like advice on this if anybody has any to give.

Up until now, H has been coming on a Wednesday afternoon and I have been going to my DPs to work and sleep and he has also been coming after his work at 5 pm on a Saturday and again I will vacate until Sunday morning.

This is for a number of reasons really, he's staying at his DPs who do have a spare room, albeit a small one. His dad is disabled and quite ill and I actually think it would be a bit much for them if DS stayed over there, especially in his current phase of being up most of the night.

Also, because DS has started being so unsettled at night again, after a few nights I am glad of the break. BUT I will happily forgo this if it is the wrong thing to do.

H has been insistent on doing as many overnights as I will allow. He has been pushing for more. He has this fixation of waking up in same house and getting ds out of bed. God knows why because he was never forthcoming in getting up with him when he lived here.

When he comes on a Wednesday afternoon, H says he wants to come in and play for a bit rather than pick him up at the door. He says he feels this would be too confusing for DS.

I want to argue against this now and say it has to be more formal. Can you give me any good arguments for this?

I am also thinking of suggesting he he stops doing the overnights until he finds his own place to live. But is this fair on DS? He does loving seeing his daddy and this would mean he sees him less temporarily.

FunkyBoldRibena Mon 04-Nov-13 17:18:07

Always listen to the mini me on your my advice.

Well done and stay strong. x

Terrortree Mon 04-Nov-13 17:04:26

I'm glad you understood my post - I dithered about posting it because it could easily come across wrongly. I didn't want to add to your upset, nor indeed shock you, but just ensure you had contemplated your own needs during this difficult time.

Good to see you making some decisions about your future. Well done you!

I wish you all the best.

MistAllChuckingFrighty Mon 04-Nov-13 16:07:22

I really hope you are now going to change the child contact arrangements

It is quite clear that him seeing dc in your home is too confusing for all of you.

hellsbellsmelons Mon 04-Nov-13 14:30:25

So glad to read that you are seeing it all more clearly now.
Stick to your guns.
Happiness is out there waiting for you.
Don't be drawn back into a relationship with this horrible controlling abuser!
You also need to sort out contact away from your house.
Or if he has to, then have a friend there if you can so he can't get you on your own.
Good luck with moving onwards and upwards.

Noregrets78 Mon 04-Nov-13 14:12:22

you really remind me of me a year ago!

Brilliant advice you've had on here, glad you've taken it on board. It's so hard to see someone suffer, even someone who has treated you badly. But it's not your fault... and you can't be a good mum if you're not looking after yourself.

This is about you not him. you're not doing this to deliberately hurt him, and you're not doing anything wrong.

Set the boundaries yourself, free from his influence. If he genuinely wants to change, he can do that from a different location. See how you feel in 6 months+... but if he's been on his best behaviour for all that time, that doesn't mean you are obliged to take him back, or go to marriage counselling. You may find that you're happier on your own, and that's OK!!

Definitely no more child contact in your home - that's more unsettling for DC as well. It's up to him where he takes DS, but maintain your own personal space.

perfectstorm Mon 04-Nov-13 13:52:38

And you know, you do sound so sane, when talking it all through. That's a gift as a parent you can offer your child. I'm so glad you aren't getting sucked back into the vortex of misery and drama - your DS can grow up with his main home a stable and together one. As someone who didn't have that as a child, it's been my primary aim for my own kids. It makes growing up so much easier, from all I hear and see.

perfectstorm Mon 04-Nov-13 13:50:05

He is not an out and out horrible man, although he can be. He gets me to do what he wants with guilt trips, he knows my weak spot. I don't trust him to not exploit it.

This is your honest opinion, so trust it. Why live with someone you can't trust to have your best interests at heart?

I quoted this from Nora Ephron a couple of times this week: "Never marry someone you wouldn't like to be divorced from". By that, she meant examine how they are when not madly in love and on their best behaviour. Look at how they treat people they feel angrily towards. No, he may well not make a nice ex... but in that case, why on earth want to remain with him? At least an ex is not in your hair 24/7.

Almost everyone is lovely when dating and before the real hard part of life and marriage kicks in. How they behave then - and I don't mean the normal scratchiness of tiredness and stress - is so telling. Manipulation, bullying and contempt is no way for anyone to live and he can't sort out those issues while using you as a security blanket, can he.

You'll be fine. But his issues are not your problem and not your responsibility, especially when you have been the victim - why go back for round two with no evidence at all anything has changed? He's still thinking only of his own needs and wants, and that isn't a good sign, is it.

JoinYourPlayfellows Mon 04-Nov-13 13:40:22

Well done, Ellie, glad you are feeling good about your decision. smile

MistAllChuckingFrighty Mon 04-Nov-13 11:42:37

I think this man is the one that has been reading "Why Does He Do That"

OP, glad to see your wobble has stabilised. Some great advice you have had on this thread. Please do post again if you have another weak moment.

Vivacia Mon 04-Nov-13 11:33:13

Well done OP, I hope you can keep us updated on how your ex responds.

EllieInTheRoom Mon 04-Nov-13 08:25:32

I have woken up with a clear head. And I think it would be ridiculous to allow this. more than anything, I don't want to feel like I owe him anything as I would then feel the famous guilt/obligation afterwards and feel even more trapped.

Funnily enough I have already spoken to my mum about my what my fears of going ahead are and even she said to forget her advice from yesterday. So thanks everybody you really helped me put things into words.

annie I loved the toy analogy!

sirsugar I'm sorry you went through that. Your story resonated a little bit. about a year ago, I was verging on depression I think, I used to have panic attacks about dying. I got really scared I would die without being properly happy first. I told my mum about them, although she didnt really understand, I told her that I felt like a bad person because I had thought about what if H died and how much easier it would be because I was so unhappy. That didnt go down well at all.

terror your comment, shocked me a little bit, but then I suppose it's right. I've surprised myself lately on my inability to think for myself and I just think its because I've never had to. It sounds silly but I'm the youngest in a large family of big personalities, also, I qualified in my profession early and progressed quickly so I have always been by far the youngest among my colleagues and groups of friends. I think because of this, I always just followed the crowd, went where they wanted to go, watched what everybody else wanted to watch, listened to what everybody else wanted to listen to etc.

I always put this down to being easygoing and laid back, but actually it was just pretty lazy. It was the same when I got with H, I never minded what we did, so I probably didnt notice he had controlling tendencies. I always knew he was a bit troubled and I made him happy. So that was my job to make him happy, and in turn he looked after me. But then he didnt look after me at all, and well, it turns out I could never make him happy. Although I am not self deprecating enough to think that's entirely my fault.

Anyway, I think in the future I just want to be happy. And independent. And to grab all the opportunities that come by and just enjoy life again. And show all of this to DS.

Thans everyone for your comments again, I really don't know how I would have done all this without this board. I'm pretty sure if I hadn't come here yesterday, I'd have just allowed him to move back in today and ignored the screaming mini me on my shoulder.

SirSugar Sun 03-Nov-13 20:19:07

I fucking despise abusive men.

My H was abusive, he cried a lot when I wouldn't let him in the house until I left the morning after he gave me two black eyes. He later shouted when I told him I had been to a solicitor and was filing for divorce. Then he cried/shouted abuse/cried and so on and so on.

Not long after that he suddenly got sick and died - I cried, but it was tears of relief; how sad is that? I was relieved I never had to deal with him again ( though he occasionally pops up in my dreams whereby I usually tell him to get lost ). How would you feel if your H was never coming back?

These men almost always revert to type. I did 15 years hardcore service in my marriage, promises of better behaviour, counselling (didn't work he jumped ship when he thought I was under control ) even family intervention.

I used to have depression/mood swings/anger/frustration/cry a lot until he died and I never relaxed. I just don't have these problems now and I have found myself.

DP whom I live with now is an entirely different character, thoughtful, loving, caring and it would be utterly impossible to turn him into an abusive cunt, as much as getting an abusive cunt to stop their disgusting behaviour.


You will never look back

Terrortree Sun 03-Nov-13 19:17:56

There's something unusual about your posting style. Most people write from their own perspective, particularly so when writing during an emotional time. So you read a lot about 'I' and 'me': that is one's own feelings, actions, behaviours and attitudes. Nothing wrong with that at all: after all if you can't be sure of yourself, what on earth can we be sure of?

When you write, you focus on his perspective, feelings, behaviour, wants, needs, statements. You focus on what he says about everything. You occasionally write about your son. You rarely write about your feelings, wants, needs, attitude. When you do it is very self-deprecating.

From that I infer, that you have no sense of your own needs and wants. It seems to me that you don't seem to consider prioritising yourself, and you don't 'allow' yourself to have an opinion or an attitude very much. Does that make sense? If you were to focus on your wishes, needs, wants, feelings first - how does that change your attitude, if at all?

What do you want? How do you envisage your future?

It is perfectly okay for you to say, "you know what I want/need/feel, it's..."

JoinYourPlayfellows Sun 03-Nov-13 19:13:34

"yes to him being around more to allow you to get your qualification"

No, no, no to this.

Don't put yourself in a position where you have to rely on him for something like this.

He will use it to control you.

They very suggestion that him moving in would be a way that you could do it is an attempt to use the promise of it to get his own way.

lovemenot Sun 03-Nov-13 19:02:16

You got him out, keep him out!

I'm the same as Woowoosister, we were apart for 5 years and I only saw him when he collected our dd.

I now recognize the deliberate and controlled campaign to get me back, starting with the sadness and puppy dog eyes. It took him two years. But he forgot to tell me he loved me on our wedding day, and eventually admitted at counseling that "we" got back together for practical (i.e financial - paying child support was draining his resources!) reasons. Getting out this time is proving much harder.

So, don't believe him, he is not concerned with what you want, only with what he wants.

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