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So we split and now he has a proposition..(93 Posts)
I need the wise women of MN again. I don't think I am being as strong as I should be. I suspect people might tell me to get a grip, maybe that's what I need.
So it's three weeks since the split. It's been hard work to be honest, mainly because there is no room for him to have DS at his DPs so he has been coming here to have him so there has been more opportunity for him to speak to me.
Also, I think DS has taken it badly, he is very unsettled. Ive posted about that separately this week.
But I Have been looking for new places, had decided me and DS would move in new year, then H would be able to get his own place too. We could all move forward etc.
But anyway, he came yesterday to play with DS and put him to bed. Afterwards he asked if we could talk...
He said his counselling is starting to make him see things clearly. he realises he did nothing to support me since DS came along. For example, i wanted to do a qualification to help me further my business but couldn't because he was never here.
He says he and the counsellor have discussed the fact he has been anxious and stressed and trying to be all things to all people. He doesn't know who he is. He says its not an excuse but knows he treated me badly, it was EA and he is determined to get over his porn addiction.
He wants me to keep this house on for another six months. He wants to live here too in the spare room and support me financially while I do the qualification and he proves to me he is the man I married not the miserable horrible one he became.
he said we can live as separately as I want. And at any time if I think it isn't working I can call it a day. But he hopes in six months I will have seen enough to agree to go to marriage counselling.
I'm worried about DS.
My mum thinks I should do it. She says What have I got to lose?
I'm not sure if I can ever get past some of things that happened. That its all gone too far. But then I think wouldn't it be nice if I could?
I think I have lost the ability to think for myself and I feel so cross with myself. I think what I want and what I feel I ought to do are getting all mixed up.
My brain might explode. Answers on a postcard please!!
something is right - you need to stop seeing him at all.
How can there be no room at his parent's house for his son to visit?
Do they live in a cupboard?
He's not suffering, he's tantrumming. How many years did you actually suffer married to him? There is no guilt in refusing to be a verbal punchbag any longer. He's done a real number on your self esteem, hasn't he?
I think he's done a real number on you anyway Ellie.
He probably met you when you were in a bad place yourself and took full advantage of your naiveity and innate kindness.
Yes, you really do.
You would be mad to let him back in again so soon. Remember that he has only apparently made this wonderous progress whilst living elsewhere. He has already proven to you that he can't do it living with you.
Trying to live 'seperately' under the same roof will never ever work and you are right not to trust him. He is, in fact, perfectly capable of proving how much he has changed by being a good father and by respecting your desire to have some time apart and figure out what you want for YOURSELF.
The fact he's already trying to worm back in with blackmail and guilt suggests he has learned precisely nothing.
He keeps saying he understands, he knows he's screwed up. He just wants one more chance now he realises it all. I'll say, you should have realised this before, he puts his heads in his hands and cries. A lot.
He says the counsellor has made him realise he hates himself. And that's what this has all been about; self sabotage or whatever.
The last few days I've been sorting financials out and it's made me worry slightly. It's not insurmountable but it will be tough. And then this proposition. It would make everything easier in that regard. I bet that's why I'm having a wobble.
The emphatic replies are helping
I agree with other posters - having read your original thread, you need and deserve to spend time on your own. If he is going through a miraculous transformation, then he can show you this just as well from his parents' house! You're doing well on your own - follow your own gut feelings and don't give in to his whining!
Do read your Lundy Bancroft re why it is difficult for abusers to change their ways. They can, but they have to give up an awful lot of privileges to do so. Most can't manage it.
You might feel sorry for him, because basically you are a nice person and I expect your soon-to-be-ex is genuinely unhappy right now. However, that does not mean you should give in and go back into the box where he can carry on poking you with a stick. It's not good for you, it's not good for DS, and it's not particularly good for H's immortal soul to get his own way in this.
Ellie, I would ask of you how many chances you have previously given him. Likely a fair number. And now he's asking for one more chance the chancer.
What he says is all bs and manipulate bs at that designed to tug at your heartstrings.
Oh and they all bloody cry as well!. It's all designed to make you feel further sorry for them. You think poor lamb, he thinks sucker!. Its all an act. They only act like this long enough to get their feet back under the table then they revert to type; in your case he will start abusing you again as soon as he is back in your home.
He is not sorry at all, he is only sorry that he managed to lose control of you. You were wise indeed to throw him out, he needs to stay gone now.
Tell him to stuff his proposition up his backside and that he will be hearing from your Solicitor in due course.
I worry that if I did agree to this and we got through the six months with him on his best behaviour, I would feel obliged to give it a shot.
And you're right to be worried, because he knows it too and is banking on it.
he realises he did nothing to support me since DS came along ... He says he and the counsellor have discussed the fact he has been anxious and stressed and trying to be all things to all people.
Except these two statements don't add up. If he was running himself ragged trying to keep everyone happy (in other words: what you do) he would have been supporting you since DS came along.
he can't show me any of his actions if we are not in the same house
Clearly not true, since he is demonstrating that he does not respect your boundaries, your decision or your feelings. Three weeks after the end of a relationship with an emotional abuser and porn addict and what's in YOUR best interest is for him to move back in? Really?
Everything he has said has been about himself. Not you. Not DS. Think about that. Even the comment about waking up in the same house as DS was about how it would make him happy.
I agree with the majority, you need to keep a physical distance from him and you can't do that while he's under the same roof. I also don't get the 'no room for DS' at his parents. Is he sleeping on their living room sofa or does he have a room/bed?
He needs to sort himself out on his own, without using you as his crutch. Don't let him move back in.
Good good, I needed this thank you everybody!
No join (hi again btw ) not a cupboard, Infact I think it's daft he can't take him there although I've not been overly fussed because MIL cries a lot too, and I've never really wanted to promote her obsessive relationship with DS.
Right, I feel stronger again. TBH I was nearly taken again but his little monologue at the end about how happy it would make him if I agreed rang the alarm bells. Moment of weakness.
I need to get tougher on the rules aout contact and coming back to the house. And I will.
atilla yeah he did actually. I was at a real crossroads in life.
One of the things he has been discussing with the counsellor is why he has tried so hard to stifle and control me apparently. I just do not want to go back to that
Pretending for a moment that I believe he's changing, hates himself and has all these anxieties to work out - in that case it would be the very best thing for him to keep his distance, and not have to try to fix himself and fix his relationship at the same time. So even if he isn't manipulating his hardest, pressing on with your plans is still the right thing to do.
Also, when I say, you can't have changed in so short a time, if ever, he says its not about changing and the way he has acted in the three years since we got married wasn't the real him but a result of stress.
When I say I think the two years before we got married and he was wonderful were an act, he says no that was the real him.
It isn't though is it. And the three years we were married shouldn't be so stressful it changes you should it?
He just seems to be so genuine at the moment though, it's hard to keep this "yeah right" perspective up. Can he really be doing all this intentionally?
He is playing you. Trying to be all things to all people? When? He wasn't trying to be a supportive husband when you wanted to better yourself.
He is following the script like many other men who realise they can't control their wives anymore.
"Pretending for a moment that I believe he's changing, hates himself and has all these anxieties to work out - in that case it would be the very best thing for him to keep his distance, and not have to try to fix himself and fix his relationship at the same time. So even if he isn't manipulating his hardest, pressing on with your plans is still the right thing to do."
Very good point. Really good. I think I'm going to steal it for when I tell him my decision
He wants six months to demonstrate that he's a better man than he's been? He can do that, but on your terms. What terms would you make them? Contact with son away from your home?
You've only got his word that any of this conversation with the counsellor actually happened. You don't owe him anything. Not visits at your home, not cosy chat and certainly not counselling in six months. You're clearly a kind, decent and honourable person and unfortunately, to an abusive man, those qualities are interpreted as 'weakness' to be exploited. Hence the sob-story, the head in the hands, the miraculous change of personality, the metaphorical chest-beating and clothes-rending.... it's classic stuff.
No contact would help a lot.
Yes vivacia exactly, although when I say that he says he can't show me he's changed if its no contact. And then we go round in circles. I say he doesn't need to show me, he says he won't give up. And then round we go again.
It's funny how he is in touch with his feelings all of a sudden and all his solutions put you right back in the spotlight with him being able to watch you like a hawk. Hmm...convenient.
cog it's just so hard to believe that someone, especially someone who says they love you so much, can be so deliberately manipulative, and that you can be so taken in
Ellie I understand how difficult this is. When I was speaking to my counsellor whilst trying to leave EA dp, she pointed out that so much of what I said was about him; about his wants, his thoughts, his moods. She asked where I was? And, I realised I wasn't there because I was so used to bending to his moods, accommodating his wishes. Your later posts reminded me of that. Where are you ?
Of course building a new life is scary and yes his finances probably would help but ultimately I'm guessing you didn't leave him because of finances. You left to escape EA and to give your ds the chance of witnessing healthy relationships. None of those points have changed and actually your dp can take the first step to showing he has changed by respecting your boundaries. By continuing to push you, he's showing that he hasn't changed at all.
He's always controlled you and this is just another way of doing so. He wants to control you so much that he is willing to eat humble pie in order to carry on...
He's terrified of the consequence to his self-esteem of a) having fucked this relationship up & b) not having the ego boost of manipulating you daily.
Seeing that you've behaved badly & actually changing that behaviour are two completely different things. It's incredibly long boring hard work to change fundamental aspects of your personality. And like everyone else, I think he will 'change' just as long as he needs to to get you back under control & then revert to his old ways.
If he had really changed then I think he would see that all his attempts at control are wrong even this supposedly 'benign' one.
WooWooSister's post is a salutary tale: to change for a few years & then go back to being an arsehole: pay particular heed to that experience OP, because you could waste another few years of your life on this.
You DP's proposal will massively confuse your son & it means another 6 months under his domination. Albeit the domination has a new spin to it.
He should have thought about how hard it would be to be apart from ds before when he was behaving so badly.
Even if - by the very longest shot he really has seen the light & really will change long term (ha) - you still need to be apart from him for some considerable time to rebuild your own sense of self.
I think he knows if he leaves & you have space to bloom, you'll never let him back in. So he's holding on to your coat & manipulating you for all he's worth now - while he still can.
If in a year, he's behaved well continually and you still want to give it another shot, then that's your call. But I doubt you will...
"he puts his heads in his hands and cries. A lot.
He says the counsellor has made him realise he hates himself. And that's what this has all been about; self sabotage or whatever."
Oh god, what a load of hackneyed old shite.
If he's just weeping with self pity and saying he hates himself and did it all on purpose to "sabotage" his happiness, then he is PLAYING you.
It's the first item on the list of How to Get a Woman to Forgive You by Eustace A. Twatt.
Hi again Ellie I was wondering earlier today how you were doing, nice to see that the answer is pretty well, all things considered.
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