So we split and now he has a proposition..

[EllieInTheRoom]

I need the wise women of MN again. I don't think I am being as strong as I should be. I suspect people might tell me to get a grip, maybe that's what I need.

So it's three weeks since the split. It's been hard work to be honest, mainly because there is no room for him to have DS at his DPs so he has been coming here to have him so there has been more opportunity for him to speak to me.

Also, I think DS has taken it badly, he is very unsettled. Ive posted about that separately this week.

But I Have been looking for new places, had decided me and DS would move in new year, then H would be able to get his own place too. We could all move forward etc.

But anyway, he came yesterday to play with DS and put him to bed. Afterwards he asked if we could talk...

He said his counselling is starting to make him see things clearly. he realises he did nothing to support me since DS came along. For example, i wanted to do a qualification to help me further my business but couldn't because he was never here.

He says he and the counsellor have discussed the fact he has been anxious and stressed and trying to be all things to all people. He doesn't know who he is. He says its not an excuse but knows he treated me badly, it was EA and he is determined to get over his porn addiction.

He wants me to keep this house on for another six months. He wants to live here too in the spare room and support me financially while I do the qualification and he proves to me he is the man I married not the miserable horrible one he became.

he said we can live as separately as I want. And at any time if I think it isn't working I can call it a day. But he hopes in six months I will have seen enough to agree to go to marriage counselling.

I'm worried about DS.

My mum thinks I should do it. She says What have I got to lose?

I'm not sure if I can ever get past some of things that happened. That its all gone too far. But then I think wouldn't it be nice if I could?

I think I have lost the ability to think for myself and I feel so cross with myself. I think what I want and what I feel I ought to do are getting all mixed up.

My brain might explode. Answers on a postcard please!!

[EllieInTheRoom]

[http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1868665-Is-it-really-that-bad-because-I-feel-like-I-want-to-boot-him-out]

Sorry I meant to post a link to the background of it all x

[EllieInTheRoom]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1868665-Is-it-really-that-bad-because-I-feel-like-I-want-to-boot-him-out/

[MirandaWest]

I think it's too soon to have him living in the same house as you. And realistically would you ask him to move out if you did have a problem with it?

I'd say to have him living somewhere else for at least 6 months and then see how things go.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I think it all sounds a bit too convenient tbh. This massive revelation in just three weeks? That's either one muvva of a counsellor or it's a crock of shit.... and I suspect the latter. Keep making your own plans for your and DS's future, stop letting him pop round to yours all the time and definitely don't let him live in the spare room. If he's truly on the path of righteousness, he'll still be on it in 12 months' time. In the meantime, the only person you can trust is yourself.

[MyNameIsWinkly]

Wow. He's had a hell of a personality change in three weeks, hasn't he.

I say continue with your plans. Become self sufficient, break all ties. If he has really truly changed then he'll be helpful and supportive because it's the right thing for you and your DS. If you want to go to counselling with him in six months, do it when you have your own space to return to.

In all honesty I would bet this is a last desperate attempt to get his own way. If he moved back in he would revert to type as soon as his arse hit the sofa. If you say no, he may have an epic tantrum because he hasn't changed. Stay firm, protect yourself.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Having read more about him on your previous thread, I think this is just more manipulative bs on his part designed to tug at your heartstrings. He's trying to get you where he wants you again; he wants his puppet back.

If there has been any type of abuse as well, joint counselling is never recommended either.

I would not enter into such an arrangement under any circumstances; besides which its too much for your DS to have to deal with his dad going in and out of his life as and when his father sees fir.

Its all very convenient for him and he can keep an eye on you as well. Power and control is what all this is about.

[Minnieisthedevilmouse]

I haven't read history.

But what's your gut say? You see I'm wondering if the shock of splitting, not being in house, no family etc has woken him up. He's attending counselling, that's a good step.

Could you ask for the counsellor to do a dual session where u both go?

It depends really, has your heart moved on?

[PTA]

I agree with the above posters. Continue with your plans. Be kind to yourself and move forward.

If, after a period of time on your own, you want to give it another shot (and if his counsellor is really that good), surely a new start in a new home altogether would be for the best.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Also his behaviours are deeply entrenched and a few sessions of counselling are not going to change anything that entrenched. This is a further attempt to manipulate you into submission.

I would start arranging contact through a contact centre; do not have this man visit your house.

[WooWooSister]

Your dm is wrong - you have a lot to lose. If you can't think straight now then it will be worse when he is living in the spare room.

I've been there ie left partner, he went to counselling and had massive revelation. I had no contact with him for over a year. Then he got back in touch and convinced me he had changed. He was like a new man right through our new relationship, engagement and wedding. Two years in to being married and he was right back to where he was before ie entitled, selfish, EA, etc. I'm not saying your dh is the same. I have no idea what he's like but I would just say be very, very cautious.

If you let your dh move back in and he does revert to type then it will be doubly upsetting for your ds to have dh back in the house and then leaving again.

You have nothing to lose from going ahead with your plans for your own life. If your dh has changed then he will support you and will still be there when or if you are ready to speak to him again. If his change is genuine then it will continue without you because it's about who he wants to be not just about 'winning' you back.

[itsmeisntit]

Hmm l just reread your initial thread.
This is the man who had an epiphany within days of your separation and after his first visit with counsellor when they decided he had been EA for several years
Far too soon- far far too soon to be letting him move back in. He needs time and a lot of it to work on himself before you even consider this.
As previously said 6 months minimum for you both to decide what you want. He was not supportive of you, ignored your wishes and rejected you for a long time.
You can't work out what you want with him living under your nose--please don't seriously consider this yet

[EllieInTheRoom]

Ive already said that I am willing to be open to the possibility of counselling in six months. I've not said I will do it, but that I will consider it in the future. Although to be honest, I just said that a couple of weeks ago to get him agree to leave. But I am happy to keep to my word on that.

He says he knows actions speak louder than words but he can't show me any of his actions if we are not in the same house. He also said its too hard for him not being in the same house as DS. He said it would make him so happy if he could wake up in the same house as him and be around him more. I think maybe that is the motivation behind it all. I do believe he knows he has been wrong and has screwed up. But he is desperately trying to stop the consequences.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

He's only doing this to try to get you back because once that happens he can and will carry on where he left off with you. He's only upset because he's actually managed to lose the one thing he could control - you. He does not want you, he wants that power and control that he lost when he was with you back.

[JoinYourPlayfellows]

You would be absolutely crazy to let this manipulative arse back into your home.

He can prove to you what a great guy he has miraculously turned into overnight and still leave you some space.

The point is, he doesn't want to. Because he knows his best chance of getting you back under control is getting back into the house and making you dependent on him again.

If this new epiphany was so easily come by, aren't you a little insulted that he couldn't be arsed figuring it out before things got so bad?

[JoinYourPlayfellows]

"he can't show me any of his actions if we are not in the same house."

That is a big, fat, LIE.

The manipulative shit.

[Anniegetyourgun]

I agree it's most unlikely he has suddenly undergone a personality transplant in a whole three weeks - but even if he has, and is ready, willing and able to be the partner and father he should have been all along, that doesn't mean you are obliged to take him back; not straight away if you don't feel ready, not ever if you don't want to. If he's truly seen the light he will respect that, even if he is not happy about it.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"Ive already said that I am willing to be open to the possibility of counselling in six months"

NO NO and NO again because there has been abuse within this relationship already. You must realise that joint counselling is never recommended when there have been any instances of abuse.

Such men are highly manipulative and skilled at doing so. If he has indeed seen a counsellor he has run rings around this person, abusive men in counselling sessions can and do make it all out to be the other person's fault.

[MyNameIsWinkly]

It's all about him, isn't it? HE can't show how he's changed. Too hard for HIM to be away from DS. It would make HIM happy to be home. Of course he's trying to stop the consequences - he's had his first taste of being told 'no' and he doesn't like it!

He cannot have made major changes in his personality and behaviours in such a short space of time.

[something2say]

We had an Executive Decision Maker when I lived with my Dad. 'Should I buy a new car?' He asked once. We got the Executive Decision Maker out and flipped it, and it said no. We lived with that decision for a bit to see how it felt. Would we be disappointed or would we feel that yes, it would be the right decision for my Dad not to buy the car, given his precarious business at that stage. It was right. He ought not to spend that money on a car.

I say, choose a decision and then live with it for this week. See how you feel in your heart as the days pass. Sad, ready to start barricading yourself in again emotionally. Or happy, more in control.

Good luck x

[EllieInTheRoom]

I worry that if I did agree to this and we got through the six months with him on his best behaviour, I would feel obliged to give it a shot. Because that's what I'm like really. I feel guilty a lot and do what I think I ought to do.

He is not an out and out horrible man, although he can be. He gets me to do what he wants with guilt trips, he knows my weak spot. I don't trust him to not exploit it.

Says it all really doesn't it.

I think I do know what I want to do but because he seems to be suffering a lot, I am finding it hard to keep twisting the knife. I need to grow a pair don't I?

[JoinYourPlayfellows]

"I am finding it hard to keep twisting the knife."

You're not twisting any knife.

Can't you see that?

None of this was done with the intention of hurting him, but to protect yourself.

So the idea of a knife being twisted here is bizarre.

I suspect you are being made to feel that you are hurting him deliberately and being cruel.

[something2say]

How about giving yourself a shot here? Cut contact for a bit. Reduce child contact or send the kids out with him. Reduce the time you see him. Do this mindfully as a way of showing yourself that you do matter. There are times when a woman has to stand firm. You sound to me as tho you're at one of those junctures, for yourself as much as for him.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Guilt is one of the most poisonous substances; sod guilt and feeling guilty.

If you undertake any form of joint counselling with this man it will be a huge error of judgment on your part. It does not work when there have been instances of abuse as has happened here. No decent counsellor worth their salt would in any way counsel you together.

I would suggest you read "Why does he do that?" written by Lundy Bancroft.

If anyone should feel at all guilty here it is him and he does not feel any real remorse whatsoever. He thinks he can fool you into him having an epiphany by having a few counselling sessions. How do you know he actually attended any?.

What have you got to feel guilty for?. You should congratulate yourself for having the gumption to throw him out.

As stated before he only is upset because he's actually managed to lose the one person he could control - you. He does not love you nor is now acting in your best interests nor your son's for that matter.

You need to remain strong; allowing him back into your home now he's gone will be a retrograde step for you. One step up and two steps back.

And yes you do need to grow a pair, if not a spine.

[CoolStoryBro]

There is a perfectly reasonable chance that, having moved out, he suddenly woke up and thought, "Wtf have I been doing?!" Especially as your problems started mainly around you both having your first child. But that's his problem, not yours.

So, take your time, trust your instincts and work out what's right for you and your child.

[JoinYourPlayfellows]

something is right - you need to stop seeing him at all.

How can there be no room at his parent's house for his son to visit?

Do they live in a cupboard?