What she says and what she means

[atelier]

My missus works three days and I work five. We have two children: DD2 DS6

She says she needs more help to run the house and I've agreed to give it. Not for the first time.
But when I say I intend to do some cleaning she puts up objections.
Not on Friday night, that's our romantic time together
Not on the weekend that's family time
Not in the week because the children are asleep

That doesn't leave any other time.

I'm wondering if this is me being a lunk and failing to understand the non-literal meaning of what she says. Can anyone translate please?

She also refuses to be specific on what more I should do. We are a team, she says, and we should be working together.
So I can't have clear, set jobs like cleaning the bathroom once a week or hoovering.
And sometimes when I ask she says 'use your eyes'.

I must sound like a terrible chauvinist. Part of the problem is that very often when I attempt something I end up being lambasted for 'doing it wrong'. Or she'll contemptuously tell me she's just done it.

I'm good at the 'man's jobs' like mowing the lawn and re-roofing the shed, which are useful. And I enjoy anything with the kids, from feeding and bathing them to taking them to the park.

But I'm floundering when it comes to sharing a bit more of her turf.

Willing but confused.

[ReviewsOffers]

She wants you to take responsibilty and not expect to be spoon fed

[pinkyredrose]

Start using your brain and your eyes. Don't let her have the responsibility of having to tell you everything that needs doing, it isn't fair to let one partner have to 'think' all the time while the other just does what they're told.

Do you know when thier dentists appointments are due, when the house insurance needs renewing or have you planned the weeks meals and shopped for the ingredients and then cooked and washed up then cleared up and then bathed the DC and done bedtime? Only to come downstairs to be faced with a pile of ironing?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

On one level she wants you to take the initiative, be spontaneous & see when something needs doing and just get on and do it. On another you're being set up to fail. If I was in charge of a team at work, gave them no clear instructions, stamped on every initiative and then said 'use your eyes' I'd be a pretty crap manager.

It's not 'her turf'... Pick something that needs doing & get on and do it without making it a big deal. Good luck

[Jan45]

Tell her what you've just told us.

[meditrina]

You should be able to spot what needs to be done without being told.

If all possible times for housework are ruled out, then it is ok to ask about timings that fit in. But perhaps there are possibilities you are missing - when does DW do housework? Do you know without having to ask?

[hamncheese]

Yeah I feel bad for you my DH gets the same sometimes... Its like I see the mess and he doesn't. And if I ask him to help he will do something he knows is cleaning like the surfaces or washing up but usually its at a time when they are not too bad yet the living room is a pit! But I don't blame him, I think he just doesn't see it the same as me.

Best advice would be to try and tidy as you go. Don't leave stuff out when it could be put away, take plates and cups through, even better take hers, neaten up or put away the dcs toys etc. sometimes I think its not even that things are really bad, just that its all over the place. Ten minutes quickly putting stuff in its right place makes things feel soooo much neater and tidier.

Or if she's doing something like taking the washing out the machine, then maybe reload it. Or if she is washing up, start drying.

Hth :)

[pinkyredrose]

Cogito why does he need 'clear instructions'? He's not a dog or 5 yrs old. Unless he thinks houses run themselves what does he think needs doing?

[lottiegarbanzo]

The responsibility of knowing what needs doing and spotting when something needs to be replaced, done, booked, renewed and doing that, is a mental burden not confined to your DW's extra time at home. She carries that responsibility all the time and wants you to share it (as many couples do).

Given where you're starting from, I think you need to suggest taking on responsibility for a particular area and working your way up from that, until you become more versatile. So for example, cleaning bathrooms, looking after meal-planning and shopping, or washing and ironing (you can see how that requires an awareness of who needs what clothes when and action accordingly, it's not just a simple 'iron this', 'hang that laundry up' task.)

How would you manage an entire household if you lived alone (have you never done that?), or as a single dad?

[HowardTJMoon]

So you're being told you're not doing enough but when you do it's either the wrong time, the wrong thing or you're doing it wrong. Uh-huh. Sounds like you're being set up to fail and/or she expects you to be able to read her mind.

She's not in sole charge of when housework gets done, what order it gets done in or how precisely it gets carried out. It should be a team effort. Her opinion of what constitutes the right way to do something does not automatically trump yours.

[atelier]

If I ignore her protests and carry on she can get very cross.

It feels like a conundrum to me.

[hellsbellsmelons]

Sounds to me as though you like 'lists' and specific tasks.
Tell her that.
My OH told me that and I make him a nice list when things need doing.
He loves the crossing things off part and getting to the end of the list, then he wants more!
Odd - but maybe you are like this.
Sit down and have a discussion about this.
You need clear tasks and when they need doing.
If she won't let you do things without niggling or saying it's not the right time, then she needs to tell you when the right time is etc...
Do you do the dishes after she has cooked a meal?
Do you sort the kids out while she has a bath and relax time?
Not sure what else to suggest - just tell her what type of person you are with this kind of thing and come to a compromise and get it sorted out.

[hellsbellsmelons]

My favourite saying!

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Einstein

[Dahlen]

•atelier* - if you read this I think a lot of what you need to do and when will become very clear to you.

I think this book should be compulsory reading for couples. Every couple I know who have had issues about housework and read this book have completely transformed their relationship for the better*. For women it offers validation that it's not petty to get worked up over housework, for men it presents the argument as to why they should do more housework in a way that is straight to the point and easy to understand.

(*One or two wives may have left.)

[lottiegarbanzo]

So have you sat down and discussed when the best time would be for certain tasks? Why are you guessing instead of talking?

It's true that there isn't usually one 'right' way to do any task but there are 'good enough' and 'inadequate' ways. So long as your way works, exactly how you achieve it shouldn't matter but, if you're not sure how to do something, or why DW does it a particular way, ask - not when it's urgent and you're both in the middle of things though.

Have you never done any sort of project management or people management, or been managed well or badly, at work? There are some transferable skills there.

[Dahlen]

To get back to your OP, it will explain how you work these things into routine so it doesn't affect your family time, etc., in the same way that your wife has been doing already for years.

[Lazyjaney]

What Cogito said, but I'd add that there is nothing wrong with splitting responsibilities for who does what as otherwise you both have to cover everything, which is I efficient.

Do you work? If so I'm struggling to see when you can do it if not on the weekend or evenings.

Also IMO if someone has to do stuff, they get to do it their way/their time.

[Lazyjaney]

Inefficient. Splitting tasks is better IMO

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

@pinkyredrose... Some people are spontaneous, others need a schedule. If the OP is the kind of person that needs a schedule of regular tasks, surely it would help if they (plural.. a couple... a team) get together and work out what they are?

[Yougotbale]

I'd say just do what needs doing. She sounds very critical. Maybe if you gave her a list of what she is not to clean that week then you couldn't go wrong when you clean it that week. You wouldn't have to read her mind.

Then all you have to do is try and get her to loosen up on dictating what you do and when? Maybe Sunday could be your day to get stuff done.

[Leavenheath]

Since when is a woman 'in charge of a team' when we're discussing housework? That implies she's responsible for it and is therefore required to give instructions. She is not. This isn't complicated stuff and there's no reason why a woman knows how to clean a bathroom any better than a man.

You are both responsible for housework and so you need to get on with it and do it properly.

As you're both responsible for this, explain that you want to divide up the tasks so that you each have sole responsibility for those particular ones. If I had to guess, the only reason anyone would object to that would be if tasks were done so badly they had to be re-done. So just make sure that doesn't happen for stuff on your watch and seeing as you're both responsible for this, remember that neither of you has the casting vote over what happens.

And yes read Wifework.

[BasilBabyEater]

Yes, tbh you do sound like a terrible chauvinist. Why does she need more "help" to run the house, why isn't it a joint responsibility? You're an able-bodied adult aren't you, why are you a junior partner in running your household?

When your boss puts you onto a project and tells you what the objectives and targets are, do you ask him/ her for a breakdown of every single little task you have to do and then come up with all sorts of times when you can't do them because you're concentrating on some other work that you're also on, or do you just get on with it? And then do you do each of those tasks not very well, so that s/he has to do them again for you? Bet you don't.

Take some responsibility for your own home. Don't expect your wife to tell you what to do, take some ownership of the housework and be an adult.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Women aren't in charge of the team. But this particular woman has decided she's in charge in this particular house.... and the OP is falling short of standards that aren't at all clear to him. Can't have it both ways.

[AutumnMadness]

I can see both sides of the argument. One one hand, having set tasks is important as this clears a bit of headspace for both people (it's nice not to worry about the bathroom/kitchen when you know that the other person will definitely do it). So I think you should push for definite responsibility for something like hoovering the whole house, or doing the garden, or laundry, or insurance and also set the time when you can realistically do it.

On the other hand, you also need to learn to use your eyes. This is a very typical example of how many women do housework: A woman walks into the bathroom to have a pee, notices that the toilet is a bit grimy, cleans it before she leaves the bathroom. A woman walks into the living room to fetch a book, notices there are some dirty cups sitting on the coffee table, scoops them up and throws them into the dishwasher.

Housework is a flow, not something that only happens at allotted times. It's not something that can be easily ticked off the list. And precisely because so much of happens in between other things, many men do not notice how much of it actually needs to be done and gets done by their wives. But the flow is important as without it the house very quickly slides into an intimidating chaos.

Good luck.

[fancyanother]

I would say not seing things as 'my job' and ' her job'. if you see the dishwasher needs emptying, empty it, rather than saying 'I do it at nights' just in case you are my DH or if washing needs taking up, just take it etc.

[BasilBabyEater]

Why has she decided she's in charge? Do we know that?

Has she just resigned herself to being in charge because if she isn't, the housework just won't get done?