I think I need to have a difficult conversation with DH

[ThistleDown]

As the title suggests I think I need to have a difficult conversation with DH but I don't know where to begin. There is a back story here - 9 years ago when DS 3 was 4 weeks old DH went away for a fortnight with an organisation he is part of (as a hobby). When he came home he had a really bad case of 'mentionitis' about a woman that he met there. She was literally all he could talk about and the mentioning of her name started when he was away, he would phone home each evening. He told me they had slept in the same place (just the two of them) on at least two occassions. Once home he was texting her a lot but deleting the messages.

I should mention that while he was away I was diagnosed with PND and had no strength to deal with the situation as I probably should have. He was not happy at me being on AD's and actually said "Can I not go away without coming home to you on happy pills?!"

About a week after he came home I told him that I thought she was interested in him. He seemed horrified but I told him if he didn't put a stop to their communications I would. He said he was sorry, hadn't realised how it would appear, they were supporting each other, etc and that he would put a stop to it. A few weeks later I intercepted an email from her to him which was pretty innocuous but ended with her saying that she was sorry she hadn't met up with him at an event they were both supposed to be attending but she couldn't make it and that she missed him.

I hid the email and sat on it for a couple of days before replying. I said that her contacting him outwith their organisation was inappropriate and that any communication should be kept to official meetings. I can't remember what else I wrote as it was so long ago but I tried hard not to come across as a harridan!

I never said anything to DH and swept it under the carpet. Life has carried on since then and we now have 4 DS.

A lot of water has passed under the bridge but I have always kept my ear open for any mention of her. In the last 9 years he has never mentioned her but occassionally mentioned a 'someone' which I knew to be her. I also heard from friends who are also in the same organisation that this woman likes to go after married men and has a bit of a reputation for it.

Everything was fine until 3 weeks ago. DH went on a training thing for a week and once home let slip that she was there. She is now higher up than him but since his return home her name has been mentioned a few times and I feel really uncomfortable. He is due to go away again in two weeks for a weekend and has said she is running the event. I think he thinks I have forgotten about her or her name will mean nothing to me now.

I want to tell him how I feel but after 9 years am I going to appear unhinged? I have no proof that anything actually happened 9 years ago only an instinct but do I want to know after all this time? This is horrendous and I feel really tearful and don't know what to do. Do I let sleeping dogs lie or do I now, after almost a decade, ask DH if he had an affair?

[akaWisey]

Considering the way he reacted to your PND I think 1) he's likely to accuse you of being unhinged and 2) if there was something going on he's going to deny anything if you ask him in an outright way.

OTOH even if this woman threw herself at your H if he wasn't receptive then it doesn't matter what her reputation for MM is. How has your marriage been between then and now? Are there other things you feel uneasy about?

[ghostonthecanvas]

Wait and see what happens. It is hard but maybe they have both moved on. If history starts repeating itself with the texting and talking about her then you can talk to him. I would say something to him next time he mentions her. Are you sure she likes married men? If this is based on factual information rather than gossip/wishful thinking, it should be easy to mention her dismissively "isn't that the woman who slept with so and so's husband? Good job you never fell for her patter". Meantime you need to find a way to move on as well.

[akaWisey]

And FWIW perhaps your intercepting her email was a bit pre-emptive. His response would have given you a clearer idea of whether there was anything to worry about. But it sounds like you weren't convinced and felt insecure if you were screening his emails.

[whatdoesittake48]

I am sorry but I think you jumped the gun by contacting her without knowing exactly what was going on. I had a similar experience once and discovered my OH had contacted my male friends to tell them to stop contacting me. it was totally wrong.

it implies a lack of trust in your partner and lack of confidence in yourself.

it is nine years later - he has had minor contact with her and you are already wanting to lay down the law.

He probably knows already that she is a sore subject with you and will hide his friendship or dealings with her - leaving you even more in the dark.

if you are wanting to discuss this with your H, I think you should tell him that you would never come between him and his friendships as that is not fair, but that you want him to be totally honest and upfront about his contact with her.

This serves two purposes - tells him you trust and care for him and two, if makes him aware that you are watching the situation.

if he wants to get together with someone else, there is nothing you can do to stop it, but acting jealous is more likely to push him away.

[CloverkissSparklecheeks]

I am not really qualified to give you advice but I have been through something very similar with DH.

There was a colleague at his workplace and he talked about her a lot, I don't really think anything went on but DH has a tendency to be everyone's 'best friend' which I think can be misinterpreted. I have never been comfortable with their relationship but never really got to the bottom of it. She was made redundant and they weren't in contact as far as I know, he mentioned she had emailed for a reference but nothing other than that. He bumped into her on a night out but omitted to tell me, he was out with my dad who mentioned it, not knowing how I felt.

We have a huge row over it but I brought up all the things from previous years with her and we kind of sorted it.

Now, 2 years on from that, she text him out of the blue, something random but we rowed about it again. Part of me feels that maybe I don't know the full story, I do believe that he hasn't done anything wrong but I am not sure about her feelnigs and part of me doesn't believe he is telling me everything.

Sorry to rattle on but I feel I need to explain what has happened. We have been together 8 years, married for 4, we have 2 DCs and have a lovely life, I would never want to be without him and he says he feels the same. He knows how I feel about him 'omitting' stuff (its not just about her, its about other pointless stuff too).

The point I have got to is that we have talked about it again, he has told me he would never ever risk what we have, that I/the boys mean too much. I will never know exactly what happened, he couldn't be telling the truth, he could not be. I do trust him generally but have always felt uneasy about this. I have made it very clear that if I ever find out he has lied about it or ever does anything (not just cheating, EA anything) then there will be no discussion, it will be over.

I gave him the opportunity to tell me anything and he stood by what he had said so I have to let it go. I am not sure I wanted to hear anything awful and 9 years on, do you really want to know. My gut feeling would be to let it go, I know this won't be the opinion of others but I am not sure what knowing about it will achieve.

I am so sorry you are going through this, its awful.

[CloverkissSparklecheeks]

I agree in part with whatdoesittake part of the reason DH says he 'omits' is because of my reaction.

if you are wanting to discuss this with your H, I think you should tell him that you would never come between him and his friendships as that is not fair, but that you want him to be totally honest and upfront about his contact with her.

This is exactly what I have told him.

[ThistleDown]

The marriage has been mostly fine with the usual ups and downs. There has been nothing else that have caused me to feel uneasy just this one person. It's hard to explain, it's like my personal alarm goes off each time her name is mentioned. She is often CC'd into group email to DH and seeing her name is enough to put my hackles up. See I am unhinged!

I know after 9 years I should let it go and if she had settled down in the intervening years I would find it easier to do that but she hasn't. Still living the same exciting life she did back then. I admit to some shameful Google stalking since DH came home 3 weeks ago.

[CloverkissSparklecheeks]

Thistledown me too, I have no idea what it is about her, she is most definitely not his type but I think she is a bit laddish and he got on well with her.

It is hard to explain without sounding crazy jealous but you are not alone!

[ThistleDown]

Lots of cross posts! Thank you all for your thoughts, they are helping me a lot. Cloverkiss you pretty much sum up how I'm feeling and what I am going through.

[ThistleDown]

Exactly Clover! She is very laddish too. One way of looking at things is that she has got so high up in the organisation as she has little else in life other than the organisation and her work. DH is much lower down the scale and says himself that family comes first, he couldn't possibly have been away as often as it takes to get where she is.

[CloverkissSparklecheeks]

At the end of the day, if you tell him what whatdoesittake has suggested and he starts being open then you have achieved what you want really, you don't even really need to ask about the past. If he starts to lie/delete messages then you know there is more to it. I think worrying about it actually magnifies the problem, you may feel like a weight has been lifted once you have spoken to him.

[Dahlen]

If it's just this particular woman and there haven't been any other causes of jealous concern in the duration of your marriage, I think you should listen to your instincts.

The past is the past though, and unless something did happen AND your DH has a desire to unburden himself, you will never know the truth about it. If you chose to ignore it then and let it go, you can't really do much about it now. Agonising over it is guaranteed to drive you mad.

If you find yourself thinking it likely that he did have an affair back then, that should tell you something about the state of your marriage now, and that should be what you concentrate on. The thing with affairs is that you don't need proof (apart from maybe to have the satisfaction of proving someone wrong when they lie to you) because happy, secure people in loving faithful marriages don't have doubts.

I think all you can do is talk to your DH about it. Do so from a point of wanting reassurance rather than accusation. Repeat what you said about not wanting to come between his friendships, but point out that this woman makes you feel insecure and that as a mark of respect for your feelings he needs to ensure his relationship with this woman is purely professional.

It may be worth adding that he should avoid after-conference drinks, etc., because this woman has a reputation and he could find himself in a situation where he needs to turn down her advances. If that happens, you would feel anger towards him as well as her because the situation was entirely forseeable and he chose to ignore that. This makes it clear that you are holding him responsible for his actions while away and won't tolerate excuses. If it's to carry any weight though, your DH needs to know that infidelity would result in serious consequences for him, not just an angry wife who would ultimately forgive him.

Hope you manage to work something out.

[ownbrand]

Your not unhinged Op , you have got apropriate boundrys and thats good. Do not ignore the uncomfortable feeling youve got.

The problem with having swept it under the carpet all those years ago is that it was never really resolved . I cant quite tell from your post whether despite telling you it would stop , he then arranged to meet her anyway at this event.

Secretly texting another woman is never ok, what a horrible way to treat you when youve just had a baby . How did he end up sleeping alone with her somewhere , was this avoidable ?

I would have a very straightforward conversation about this. I would say that he crossed the line texting her and sleeping alone with her. I would say that he disrespected you by continuing this after you told him it made you uncomfortable.

I wouldnt beat around the bush here , tell him that any inapropriate behaviour with her will result in a divorce , and it might not do him any harm to hear that you have found particular men attractive in the past ect. How would he feel if you were to sleep alone with them and secretly text them ?

Id also suggest you read Shirley Glass Not just Freinds , hes already crossed the line previously and the lack of consequences will make it a lot easier to cross it again .

[Jan45]

You're not unhinged and you don't need proof, their relationship was highly inappropriate, texting saying she missed him??? Him criticising you for being on happy pills when you've been diagnosed with PND, them two supporting each other - through what exactly and where was his support for you when you were ill? Sorry but it sounds like he's treated you dreadfully then so no wonder you're alarm bells are going off. Don't ever ignore your gut feeling, it's always right.

Make sure he knows in no uncertain terms that there will be no secret texting and no sleeping together in the same place again.

In fact, I'd make it very clear if he so much as mentions this woman again then the bags will be packed.

[CailinDana]

Sorry for the tangent but he went away voluntarily for 2 weeks leaving you with 2 children and a newborn, then complained about your PND?? And you're still with him?

[justanuthermanicmumsday]

I'm going to get a lot of flack for this but I'll say it anyway, I'm sceptical about men and women having purely platonic friendships somewhere along the line either the woman or the man begin to develop feelings.

I wouldn't be ok with it because of situations like the one the op has just described. If it were me I'd be straight with him I keep no male friends so you can't have female friends. That way there are no issues.

[akaWisey]

justanother I've always had platonic male friends. So did my ex. We were both fine with that. He chose to act on deeper feelings for two of them and that's not the primary reason for our divorce. It was his deceit and betrayal.

I still have platonic male friends who are both single and attached. I feel deeply for them as they do me. But we know where to draw the line and never, ever cross it. Actually the very thought repulses me and I'm quite sure it would them, too.

[CoffeeTea103]

Sorry op but there seems to be more to this. It seems like they have an emotional relationship. She was very much in his life when you were going through pnd and he could very possibly have turned to her especially if he was annoyed at you about the AD.

There definitely is something that worries you about this woman and I would say trust your instincts. 9 years is a very long time, and as they are still in contact it's a long time to create and have a bond with someone. Doesn't mean if you haven't come across anything suspicious that nothing is happening, it could just be that they are hiding it well.

His relationship back then with her was very wrong. Despite what you have heard about her, if she was a friend why hasn't he introduced her to you. I think ask him outright. You deserve the truth whatever it is.

[FrancescaBell]

Oh dear. Such a web of secrets.

Firstly, have you accepted that he did have an affair with this woman all those years ago? Because regardless of whether clothes stayed on (doubtful on a residential trip) this was an emotional affair, because he was deleting texts. But I'm assuming you knew that was happening because you'd started to monitor his phone/bills.

Failing to disclose that you were doing that allowed him to fake 'horror' that there was anything 'off' about their friendship. I'd have found it very hard to trust him after that, but by that point you both had secrets.

Next comes the e mail which you intercepted and with-held from him. More secrets, including your attempt to warn her off.

At this point, it's my guess that she told him about your actions and he learned that you had secrets too. I should think they switched to communicating via work systems or via phones, even if the contact was sporadic.

Clearly, continuing to be in touch with someone with whom you've had an affair and arranging to be on yet another residential trip with her is playing with fire, so the only breakthrough I'm going to suggest is that you sit down and tell your husband the whole shebang. Even if he's got no intention of revisiting old haunts, you've both had secrets for a long time and they need to come out now, if your relationship stands a chance of being a good one.

My preferred stance in relationships is to say what my standards are and to hold people to their agreements if they accept those standards. I wouldn't regard it as my job to police their activities or to assume getting rid of an interloper ever solves the core problem, which would reside in the person who's lying to me.

At the end of this conversation, my objectives in your shoes would be for him to admit the affair, be honest about what's happened between him (and any others) since, to volunteer of his own free will to have no further contact with her and to promise to disclose if she contacts him.

One further tip: I wouldn't rush to a decision in this conversation. You'll need to mull over what he says and he'll need to mull things over too. If he admits to the affair and it's even worse than you suspected, it's likely that you'll be furious all over again about how appallingly selfish he was when you were at your most vulnerable. I agree with others that his treatment of you really stood out in your post and together with his faux outrage- paints him as a selfish liar. I can only assume you felt quite helpless at that time, to have put up with it.

[MedicNeeded]

I had this with my husband, but the affair had been going on throughout the nine years. Because the mentionitis stopped after a while, I didn't think anything was going on, but at the same time I felt throughout those years that I was going mad. Oh and he didn't go out much - it all took place at work or after work.

Hope to god your situation isn't the same.

[ThistleDown]

Many thanks to everyone for the replies, food for thought indeed. I'll try to answer questions but on my phone now and can't look back at the conversation very easily.

DH was hideous about my diagnosis of PND but didn't find out until he was home. He did apologise for his reactions sometime later. He has also apologised for going away at all with DS 3 being a newborn and has told friends he regrets it.

Have I accepted he had an affair? That depends on what day it is. Somedays I would say it was pretty obvious that something happened, other days I can't believe it.

Over the years they will have met up once a year, possibly twice. Thankfully she lives some distance away which I think is what has made it easier for me to avoid this as much as I have.

She and I have never had cause to meet, don't know what I'd do if that situation ever arose. She's younger than me by 5 years (so 10 younger than DH) and lives a very active life style.

Whether or not the sleeping arrangements could have been avoided - yes. They both chose to sleep where they did, DH told me that at the time. That trip is an annual event but DH has only been 3 times since then and only for a week instead of 2.

He's away again next weekend and she will be there.

I opened our emails tonight (both feed into one account) and there are two from her directly to DH. Admittedly they were just business but it was like a punch in the gut to me :(

I don't think anything has been going on for 9 years, we have friends in the same organisation an he would be hard pushed to hide it if they were.

I hate even seeing her name and I hate that he has made it this way. A web of secrets is right. Perhaps it is time to wake that dog up after all :(

[FrancescaBell]

Yes it is.

Distance is nothing these days though.

Did you get what I was saying earlier on that deleting texts from and to her shows he knew he had something to hide, so his 'horror' when you queried her feelings for him was entirely fake?

I assume he wasn't in the habit of deleting all his texts then?

[ThistleDown]

I did get that and had wondered about it myself even at the time all this was happening. He isn't/ wasn't one for deleting texts and I don't check them, I have only done that once to see what they were saying but everything was deleted. He has never hidden his phone or had it glued to him.

[FrancescaBell]

How did you know he was deleting texts back then?

I hate to suggest this in a way, but because I think she'll have told him about your e mail warning her off, is there any chance there's a spare phone involved?

Regrettably, this seemed to be a standard item in the cheater's toolkit when I worked with people who were messing around, especially once they'd realised their wives were suspicious.

[ThistleDown]

The phone thing is...odd. While he was away he bought a new mobile which he showed me when he got home and the old one got relegated to a drawer. In his phone she was listed as but after I spoke to him it was changed to . It was eventually deleted (name changed again? I don't know) and I am ashamed to say I put the piece of paper with her details written onto our coal fire .

I noticed he was texting a lot and was evasive when I asked about it so I checked his phone while he was in the bath. The only messages there were ones Either I had sent or he ha mentioned previously. His sent box was empty. I guessed it wa her he was messaging and that he'd deleted them.

While DH is away quite often they are rarely together as they operate in different areas. I don't think there is another phone but I can't prove it.