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Mother / Madonna / Whore (Syndrome)????(77 Posts)
I am going to counselling following a really shitty marraige.
I would always have described it as an abusive relationship but counsellor today (who has also worked with exH) said its more like the above.
Sounds like a bit of a cop out to me - what do ye think??
Ever heard of it??
Shit - thats alot to take in.
We always had a very passionate sex life or at least he was very very passionate... how does this fit into this complex??
Rather than seeing you as a 'whole' person, a well rounded woman with all the emotions that go with it, he will separate your sexual being from your nurturing being.
So he can treat you like a whore in the bedroom and expect you to behave like a Madonna the rest of the time.
Was your counsellor implying that he wasn't abusive?
Please keep explaining this to me - i really dont understand and i so want to know what i am supposed to be dealing with here. We are living apart but he thinks this counselling will be for us getting back together. I thought for a while there is might be working and now this curve ball. He has been seing the counsellor alot longer than me and he doesnt seem to have opened up to the counsellor at all.
Yes counsellor doesnt think he is abusive. He says he can spot the really abusive ones that they are usually all charm and smiles and full of apologies this is def not my H but i still have think he is abusive - i have lived with him so i should know. But i always thought at the back of it all it wasnt a simple anger management issue that ther was more to it. Maybe this is what it is the madonna/whore thing.
But then if the counsellor doesnt think he is abusive maybe he is a useless counsellor and is wrong about this too.
You don't have to get back with him you know. And you don't have to give a reason. I don't want to is reason enough.
What things does he do that make you think he's abusive?
Well he used to shout and roar and me and call me a bitch over nothing at all but one occasion and ex from many many years ago came up to me on the street and i got really nervous cause i knew H would flip at this. And so of course after all the "who was that" crap he called me a bitch etc. That type of thing.
THen the tempers over dinner not cooked. And threats of phsical violence.
Hiding - money and telling me we were broke.
Cheating on me and denying it - telling me i was imagaing things
Hating me going out for a night without him. Always causing a row before i went out to be sure i wouldnt enjoy myself.
Thinking i fancied a few people even if i just knew them in passing.
That type of thing. You know lying, making me thinnk i was crazy, changing his mind every two mins and blaming me.
I always understood the temper bit - i dont mean i accepted it - just thought it was straight forward anger management thing
Its the jealousy and the feeling that deep down he thought i was some of slapper that couldnt be trusted or conversely thinking that anyone who spoke to me or even asked after me was either an ex or must fancy me..
Of course i lost all my self esteem, isolated myself, got depressed, lost friends, drank too much, got fat etc etc - hence the counselling now.
But having googled this syndrome it seems to be saying that the man doent want to have sex with his wife and that is not the case - he is as passionate now as he ever was. I know he still desires me.
So is there a couple of diff forms of this.
Have spent so long searchin for answers i really would like to know if this is his problem. Also very un-nerved at how nuts it is.
He had a hard upbringing - father was a really bully adn i think he may have beaten his mother but i cant be sure.
Of couse alot of the time he is just lovely and a great guy!!
and if he does have it are me and my kids in danger from him if i make the final break from him - divorce.... will he flip??
You should not be having counselling with this man. In fact you should not be having him in your life at all. What is the situation with your separation?
It is tricky when a counsellor tells you something that confuses and bewilders you rather than helping you think more clearly about it. Firstly it is dodgy that you and the ex are sharing a counsellor. How can she objectively take both of your points of view? He has been seeing her for longer, does she feel more aligned to him?
The idea that he sees you as mother/whore/madonna means that you will never make him happy, he will always ultimately be disappointed in you. He doesn't view you as one person who has all these traits - ie there is both good and bad in you (as there is in everyone) he either idealises you as perfect but then when you fail (which you surely will as he probably has high expectations of you) you become the evil whore. Very hard work and confusing for you.
Regarding the abusiveness - is it verbal/emotional abuse? Because the only opinion that counts is yours - did you experience it as bullying or abusive? IF so then it was.
Good luck - personally I would ditch the counsellor and find my own unconnected to the ex.
That counselor is crap. The things you listed are abuse.
I too would change counsellors. this one sounds completely unprofessional if she is telling you things about H that she has got from his sessions with her.
Don't talk to her again, move to a different one.
Trust your gut if you think he is abusive then he is!!!
Wow, you need to ditch the counselor if they don't recognise that threats of violence, shouting and swearing at you, hiding money, lying and cheating aren't abuse.
Does he shout, scream and threaten his colleagues, other family members? I'm not sure it's mother/whore/madonna or anger management. It sounds like very straightforward abuse to me and that means you need a counselor who is nothing to do with your husband.
OP, did you and your H go to this man for Couples Counselling, or was he originally your H's counsellor and then you started seeing him as well?
Don't go back to that counsellor. And don't go to any other counsellor with him. If you want counselling, go on your own.
It seems clear to me that you don't want him back. You want a divorce but you are scared to tell him?
Male counsellor - said he wont take sides but he seems to side me with me a bit. But then i know H he wouldnt have given much away. He simply doesnt understand what all the problems are about. And whatever it causing these problems are so deep rooted (i believe) that he doesnt even know how to recognise them.
H was going first but i dont mind that i dont feel he is siding with him. Whether he is a sh*te counsellor is another thing. But then i have been to a few and thought they were all crap - he is the best i have met - at least he came up with something.
YOu see this story has two parts one is when i def felt abused so i had him removed from the house (i took him back 6 months later). and part two is now where; i asked him to move out again and he did willingly he wasnt actually shouting at me anymore but he does act a bit strange and still seemed to cause a row over me going out etc.
So i get confused. Is it residual memories? Is he still abusive just has toned it down for the moment? Has he this madonna thingy? is he just an ar*ehole?
And sometimes as i have said he is great. and i feel really happy and secure. However i do know i cant go on like this much longer. Its nearly 6 yrs goin on in one form or another. We are together 11 years.
That time i thought he had cheated (he def was in contact with ex and i overhead him arranging to meet her) was 4mnths after our dd was born. That ties in with madonna thing doesnt it? The minute i became a mother to his child he started to look outside.
I would certainly question the ethics of counselling a couple when one of them has been seeing you separately for a while already. In fact I don't think that would be seen as good practice at all. Is your counsellor BACP/UKCP accredited? As in properly accredited, not just MBACP?
I think you might be getting sidetracked but this madonna/whore theory. It is just an idea its not an actual thing that people get - its not an actual disorder that some people 'have' its more like a metaphor to understand how someone might think and behave towards someone else. He is just an arsehole I am afraid. And it is really confusing because he is/was your partner and your childrens father and youre not sure what is OK to put up with and whether leaving is the right thing. It is really hard which is why it would be so useful to talk to decent counsellot - and may I suggest a women? Is that sexist? Nah!
You seem to be tying yourself in knots trying to work out why he acts like he does. Let me shout for a moment <ahem> THAT IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM. Excuse the shouting but I think you and the counselor are missing the point. If your DH has anger management issues, if he has an issue with childhood abuse, if he is abusive, if he has a mother/whore/madonna complex, it is for your DH to work on that.
It is not an excuse, which is what you and the counselor
and I bet DH are using it as. So what if he has a complex? His behaviour is the issue, he needs to work on it. Your job is to look after yourself and that doesn't include you and your counselor working out how to let DH off with threatening you.
You ask if DH is still abusive. If DH is not doing it now, it is only because it is not working for him now. If threatening you starts working for him again, he will start doing it again.
I don't like the way you are suggesting the counsellor is good 'because they came up with something'
It is not the counsellors role to be directive or suggestive they are there to listen, DH has problems that you are trying to solve, Like Mrs Pratchett says concentrate on yourself and what you want, not himxx
And if he does have this complex or that condition, it's not up to you to 'cure' him. In fact, even more reason to stay away from him I would say.
What is your housing situation. Have you taken any legal advice re the separation?
OP, I am a counsellor and there is no way I would take on a partner or family member of an existing client.. This counsellor is not your counsellor. He is your husband's counsellor, even when he is with you.
Do not see him again and please report him to his professional body. Does he work for an agency OP?
This is why you should not have joint counselling where there is abuse in the relationship
This man is an abuser, OP. Your counsellor is talking bollocks.
I hope you never take this man back. Tell him NOW your relationship is finished and he is free to see whomever the fuck he likes for shite advice but you are OUT.
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