Serious value differences in relationships - what to do?

[ConflicteD123]

Hi all, would really appreciate some advice/opinions re value/moral differences in a relationship. I've had a big falling out with long term DP over his anti choice stance and I'm not totally sure the sensitivity around this sort of difference of opinion is compatible with continuing the relationship (which is otherwise very good). I obviously don't want to break up when most things are good, but the divide has genuinely been bothering me for a number of months and affects the way I see him, how looked after/cared for I feel as a woman etc. Has anyone ever discussed any value/moral differences through relationship counselling?

It is very important to note that this is mainly a hypothetical/political argument at this point as have never been personally affected by the issue at all (although I may have friends who have), but it has partially arisen now due to large amount of media coverage/campaigns etc. which has resulted from recent changes in Ireland. There will likely be further changes and a referendum in the future. On a personal level I in no way anticipate an accidental/unexpected pregnancy, however I do worry about whether I would feel fully supported in the event of a future pregnancy having one of the severe abnormalities which it is possible to screen for - as have read a bit on other mumsnet topics about this. Thanks for reading.

[maddy68]

Me and my oh are often poles apart on certain issues but then we like a good old debate. It isn't necessarily a deal breaker having opposite views on certain topics as long as major values ie child rearing are similar

[CailinDana]

What exactly is his view?

[LemonPeculiarJones]

That would bother me.

I couldn't be with a staunchly anti-choice man. Or someone who thought women were partially responsible for rape it they were drunk, for instance.

Anti-woman thinking is a deal-breaker for me.

How long have you been together?

[OrangeOpalFruit]

It's difficult when at the moment it's a purely hypothetical situation. I would like to think that his views might be different if it affected somebody close to him. To me, a lot would depend on how he is expressing his views. If he's being contemptuous towards you for disagreeing with him then that would worry me more than the the difference in opinions itself.

[Vivacia]

I agree with Orange, the critical question is how does he express his views? How does he treat yours?

[fifi669]

Is he completely against abortion? Would he be swayed by severe medical reasons? Hopefully you'll never be in that situation. Though you are pro choice, is it a choice you could take? If it's not then the argument is academic. I'm pro life. I personally don't agree with abortions for social reasons. However, where the child will be severely disabled or life limited or the mothers life is at risk there is def a grey area in my head. Is your DP similar?

[ConflicteD123]

Thanks everyone. In terms of how he treats mine - I think he's been fairly dismissive so far, but at the same time he also says it's an individual thing and he doesn't see why it's such a big deal if we are different, so he must accept me being different to some degree. He doesn't come across as particularly empathetic when talking about it, he's more principles based, but yet also uses some over the top language - eg. when discussing the medical issues thing he tried to draw links with eugenics. I think a calmer more reflective discussion would definitely help but it tends to turn into point scoring and misinterpretation, sarcasm etc. That's probably partly because it's a topic he hates talking about and he really resents me forcing him to talk about it (and for same reason doesn't want to think about it more -eg. refuses to read any newspaper articles I suggest which I think are very relevant)

Finding it hard to pin down exactly what he thinks tbh - he's sounded fairly extreme in some conversations before but started to sound a little more reasonable towards end of a more recent one - but I think that was in terms of a practical/legal political position on changes to provision in Ireland (status quo not working), while still actually vehemently disagreeing on a moral level.

Fifi - re would he be swayed by severe medical reasons - definitely by risk to life of mother, almost definitely if the baby wouldn't live more than a couple of days, but don't know about any other prognoses either health of mother or baby. He'd probably say too hard to find a dividing line. Wondering if I should maybe try to get him to agree in advance at hypothetical level now that he'd always let me make any decisions that were on medical grounds...

[glastocat]

It would be a deal breaker for me.

[Chubfuddler]

How much do you end up discussing this? Seems rather odd.

I couldn't be with someone who had completely different values to me so if this matters to you so much you want to keep discussing it to try to change his POV then end it.

[Vivacia]

I should maybe try to get him to agree in advance at hypothetical level now that he'd always let me make any decisions that were on medical grounds...

There's no need. You already have that right. In this country anyway. So you don't need his permission.

[themaltesefalcon]

What Vivacia said.

[CailinDana]

Hmm. Is he Irish? Could he be reflecting the views of his parents without really wanting to examine them?

My DH is more pro-choice than I am but the way I see it if it came down to it whether or not to abort would essentially my decision so it doesn't really matter.

You say you in no way anticipate an unexpected pregnancy but in fact no one anticipates it, that's why it's unexpected. The question to ask is, if you did want to abort and he didn't would that be a dealbreaker for him? Would he expect you to go with his wishes rather than your own?

[Mama1980]

I don't think a difference of opinion is necessarily a bad thing, but I do think a difference on this thing is important.
It was a deal breaker for my relationship, I am pro choice totally but for me that meant I continued with a pregnancy despite severe risk to my life, and my baby's he wanted me to do otherwise and he left us unable to cope. So I think being able to reach or not a hypothetical agreement would be a deal breaker.

[Vivacia]

ultimately the decision should be down to the woman, regardless of what the man feels?

Presumably not, because that would be pro choice.

[onefewernow]

A difference of opinion is fine.

Sarcasm and point scoring is your issue. That is likely to become troublesome.

[SolidGoldBrass]

An anti-choice man is a man who thinks that women are inferior to men. I would dump him so fast he'd leave skidmarks.

[BlingLoving]

I think that like any value call, it depends on how strongly you feel about it. I am pro choice, but I don't think I'd have an issue with a partner who wasn't. But I could see a partner not wanting to be with me in that situation because if it ever came to it, my opinion would be the one that counts so an anti-choice person would probably be unable to be with me.

For me, I couldn't be with a man who wasn't supportive of my career or who expected me to be a "traditional" woman. I know many women, feminists all, who don't seem to have a problem with that.

So ultimately, it's all about how important the specific issue is to you and to him, and that's the decision you take.

[Val007]

Are you talking about abortion?

Gosh, why would you force that topic on him if you end up in arguments? Suggesting articles for him? I would definitely be very very unhappy if someone was shoving unwanted litereature down my throat and being cross for not agreeing to read it. He will not change his point of view - accept it or move on!

If the time comes for you to make a choice (hopefully never!) - it will be your choice, that's it. Why are you so bothered and obsessed? Why ruin a good thing over nothing?

Honestly, you sound very controlling...

[Val007]

SolidGoldBrass

"An anti-choice man is a man who thinks that women are inferior to men."

Maybe he doesn't look down on women, but cherishes the unborn life too much and feels strongly opposed to killing this life?

Maybe?...

[LemonPeculiarJones]

You can't resolve this. It's a deal breaker. End it.

[bestsonever]

Somehow this seems a case of unnecessary focusing on a situation that is unlikely to happen to you so why let it bother you at all? Noone can exactly predict how they would feel and act in a given situation. It's all hypothetical until you're in it and either of you could end up changing your stance at that point anyway.
It looks like barriers to this relationship are being put up where they needn't be. If other things are as good as you say, let this subject drop and move forwards happier for having done so instead of creating pointell angst.

[bestsonever]

'pointless' angst.

[Vivacia]

I want to know what a partner thinks and believes when it comes to most things, but especially important issues relating to politics and religion. I think discussing them is pretty normal.

[SolidGoldBrass]

Oh FFS. I wouldn't even be friends with someone who held strong anti-choice views, because I don't want to spend time with someone who considers me a breeding animal not a human being. (Obviously, I have no problem with someone who'se anti-choice position is that she would never terminate her own pregnancy.) I think the OP is absolutely right to consider binning the man over this. For a man to hold strong anti-choice views, he has to consider women to be fundamentally incubators, not people, and that his opinion counts for more than a woman's. It's a red flag for a man who is going to be problematic sooner or later because he can't see beyond his All-Important Penis.