Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide, which can point you to expert advice and support.
DP touching me intimately whilst he's awake and I'm asleep- not sure how I feel about it(118 Posts)
Have NCed. This is something that's started in the last couple of weeks, DP and I have been together 3 years but separated for a couple of months recently- unrelated to this. He is doing it consciously. He has stopped on the occasions I've asked him to but there have been times I've been half asleep and not really with it. I'm conscious we both want to make this work this time and I don't want to create a huge fuss over nothing if I'm just being very uptight. Not sure if I'm being funny about this or not.
Another who is finding this thread depressing.
Being caressed quite intimately (not fingers inside me) and woken up for sex is something which has the green light in my marriage. I've let my DH know I like it. There are things either one doesn't like so obviously we don't do these things.
However I'd NEVER assume this might be ok for someone else.
OP if you've repeatedly said 'no' when he starts or have been too sleepy or unable to stop him then there is something very wrong. Tell him not to do it ever again in the cold light of day and if he does, RUN.
It is possible for it to not be a bad thing, my husband will curl up behind me, stroke and kiss my arm/ neck first. Usually I will move back towards him and he knows that I'm happy for him to continue, often I don't fully wake up but I enjoy it - if he does it at night he hasn't figured out that I know how to get him to do it. I do it to him too, but we've both stopped when it's not been right.
But if someone doesn't want it then it's not on. In a loving relationship it should be ok to say you don't want to or you're not in the mood and if the other person doesn't accept that then you need to question your relationship.
GTBT, what part of consent do you not understand? <Boggle>
Perfectstorm, I agree with everything you've said.
5mad, as Perfect said, that does sound lovely because you have given your express consent. There's a big difference though, the OP has withdrawn consent. His refusal to accept that is sexual assault. He clearly has no respect for her boundaries.
Completely agree with yabyum.
I was in a relationship for years where I put up with exactly this kind of crap, and it seems like on some level it 'isn't that bad', but it is bad and it can really fuck up your head. Please don't put up with it OP.
Seriously dp would NOT want to have sex if I wasn't up for it...
Yes its mutually agreed and I wouldn't even have to say no, as I would respond or not and he understands by body language/reactions. Which is how it is in a relationship? I don't have to ask/dp doesn't have to ask, we can both tell without doing so if the other is interested.
And I too wouldn't want to wake up with fingers in my genitals, that's too much. I would respond to a caress/touch and we would carry on. Or I wouldn't and dp would stop.
And I agree she has said no, she doesn't like it and yet he still keeps trying it on and that is wrong. As is the whole lay back and think of england/'putting it out' for someone!! Sersly dp would NOT want to have sex if I wasn't up for it, that is normal ismnt it?!
I think this thread is quite depressing too. It does seem there is a vast difference between what people think is acceptable in marriage and that's fair enough. But it isn't right that the OP has said please do not do this I don't like it and I don't want you to do it and her partner keeps on. That's wrong.
5madthings that sounds lovely, because it IS consensual. That's the whole point - something within established trust, that both parties enjoy, and where if the least sign that it's unwelcome would mean it ended, is clearly fine. I appreciate that what you describe is also more affectionate touching when sleepy which, if both parties are on board, can them lead to more. That's IMO rather different to intimate touching of genital areas when the other person is still asleep - personally I would find that crossed my own line, though again, if both are on board, no problem at all. Felching, anal, BDSM, snowballing, golden showers - I honestly dgaf how people enjoy themselves, as long as both parties truly do, and it's fully consensual.
The worrying part here is that a woman who does not enjoy it and has made that clear is being told by some posters that it's okay for her partner to keep right on doing it, and even that she should just put out, lie back and think of England. He shouldn't need to worry about her consent at all.
I find that mind-blowing.
Thank you Olivia.
Mutual respect and understanding is how you 'save a marriage.' Not groping someone in their sleep when they've asked you not to.
I can see that for a lot of people its not acceptable. By surely it can be a something mutually agreed? There is no coersion with myself and my partner and its something we both do to each other
tho not very often as with five kids sleep is way more important than sex
But its more a case of one of us will snuggle up to the other, stroke/caress etc and if the other wants to reciprocate they do, if not they move away/say no thanks and go back to sleep. Neither of us 'put up' with anything we are unhappy with or are conditioned to accept anything. I agree that can and probably does happen in some relationships but this certainly the caw that it can be mutually OK and enjoyable. Obviously it is not in the ops case and he needs to stop, by continuing he is assaulting her.
God, this thread is as depressing as the one where people were arguing a victim of serious domestic violence, whose husband had tracked her down to a holiday park as soon as he got out of jail, deserved to be thrown out when he beat her to a pulp, because she was also to blame.
IF a relationship is one of established trust, and both parties know being awoken with caresses is welcome, then fine. In the same way, if BDSM is okay within a relationship, responsibly enjoyed and genuinely consensual, then their business and nobody else's. But to say it's the woman's job to make it clear she doesn't want to be raped when unconscious, is as crazy as saying women should explain in advance if they don't want to be tied to the bed with handcuffs, whipped with a riding crop, and hot wax poured on their tits. In both cases, it's not sexual behaviour you can indulge in without utter certainty that the other party is on board. f my DH did EITHER I would report him to the fucking police. It wouldn't happen, because he sees me as a human being and not a blow up doll, and therefore consent matters to him as well as me.
Consent, consent, consent. OP has said NO. He still does it. "Surprise" sex, when unwelcome, is rape. That's a simple legal fact. Sex with an unconscious person is rape; that applies whether you're married to them or they're some random person you find in an upstairs bedroom at a party. If you have told your spouse you enjoy being woken by their dick, knock yourself out with being woken that way. Just don't whine that women who find the idea abhorrent are being unreasonable, because actually, what they're objecting to is classified as a serious crime. Which rather indicates that you're the outlier/extreme end of the spectrum here, and not them.
Sex is meant to be fun and equal. This sounds the complete opposite in every single way.
Yup Ill read it in a while. Must find mixing blade to my bread machine, but Ive clicked on the link.
Do not agree with your view yabyum, and that wont change from reading these myths
yabyum, yes to all that. We are conditioned to accept it, as if it's not assault or rape if you are married. And I see the same posters spouting this apologist shite over and over again.
To me, this is a particularly pernicious sexual practice. It assumes consent, thereby putting the onus on the unconscious person to 'come to' in time to say 'yes' or 'no'. Even if you've done it a million times before, each time your partner touches you sexually while you're unconscious, he/she is making a huge assumption. And ime, many women put up with this AGAINST their will for fear if being thought 'uptight'.
Thank you Olivia. Everyone should read that link, really. Rape myths do so much damage.
First of all, sorry to hear this OP.
Wanted to post link to the We Believe You Rape Myths page
Well, I've read the first few pages and am completely unsurprised by the goady rape-myth pushing.
OP, this IS sexual assault. Its a no, unless you say yes, unless you have specified that it's always a yes. And even then you can change your mind at any time. I hope you're ok.
I didn't mention Piv , I assumed OP meant he was attempting to penetrate her with his fingers.
If my DH tried "groping" me awake he'd likely get an elbow to the throat , he wouldn't enjoy me doing it to him either, we're both grumpy when tired.
Early morning foreplay for me starts with a cup of tea
...and this is why projecting your own functional relationship is not helpful at all
because basically you are saying "if it's ok for me, it should be ok for you"
but for some people, they don't have that agreement, and it really isn't ok
pretending everyone is able to give informed consent is short sighted, ego centric and victim-blaming
Gtbt you got it. And it started with being touched in my sleep after I asked him not to. Then "missing" during sex so he anally raped me in what had been consensual sex.
Not all people are in loving respecting relationships. That some of the abusive actions are acceptable within your relationship by consent doesn't make your relationship abusive. For example a financially controlling partner might insist on doing all the accounts. My dh also insists on doing all the accounts, but isn't financially abusive because he then talks me through them and we share actual control of the money.
Basically if I'd noticed the red flags of him not being bothered about consent I could have escaped much earlier and missed a lot of pain.
Bela, mine either - Ive never been woken up with PIV.. Gosh how uncomfortable. I mean, being groped awake.. you know, kissed and stroked and stuff.
Who would want to have sex with a comatose wife? Would be like a dead body.. a man would want some sort of response
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.