Asked H to leave - in total crisis

[3HotCrossBuns]

Some of you might recall I had a thread recently about contacting the OW which then uncovered some other feelings I was having about whether I could try to reconcile with my H. Anyway fast forward a couple of weeks and it's as if the penny has dropped for him and he is taking more responsibilty and accountability for his choices, saying that he does love me and wants to help me heal, has given me space when I needed it, cuddles when I needed it, set up a tracker on his phone, has given me total transparency on his phone since day 1 etc etc.
Thing is, I feel so hurt and betrayed by his recent PA/EA and his previous EA that I don't think I can get past it. As part of both of those affairs he talked about leaving me, 'escaping his life' etc. I don't think he is seeing the OW (finished with her over the phone on day 1 with me in the room). But I am so devasted by what he has done already that I can't value him now - I don't like him much. Or respect him.
This morning whilst he was out (having an STI check!) I went back through the emails on the pc and found the emails from the EA. I was so upset that, when he got back, I told him we were done and to leave immediately. After a heated discussion he has gone with a change of clothes and his toiletries. Don't know where to. Says this is not what he wants but he understands my decision. This is the third time I have asked him to leave in 12 weeks (1st time was for 2 weeks immediately after disclosure of the PA, 2nd time was for a few days about 6weeks ago). Each time he has respected my wishes.
I am so so gutted. Especially for my children who completely adore him and he them. They are used to him being a very involved parent. He's a hands-on husband about the house too. I feel like my world has collasped, I can't stop crying, the kids haven't had any lunch and have just been in front of the tv all day. What do I do now?? Is there any way back? He says he's determined he will change - is that irrelevant? What's done is done, how do I get over it??

[GetStuffezd]

We're the emails sent after this all came to light? Has he responded?

[AnyFucker]

So he has had at least 2 affairs and is now eventually "getting it" ?

I think it more likely that you are the one where the penny is dropping, tbh

Let him go and this time, in your position, I would make it permanent. What you are both doing is actually rather damaging for your kids...much more than a clean break would be.

[3HotCrossBuns]

The emails are from during the EA. I found out about the EA as part of the pandora's box that has been opened with the disclosure of the recent PA but hadn't read any of the actual emails.

I meant he was 'getting it' in terms of facing up to the fact that he was HIS choices that got us here and not to keep using reasons such as being bullied at work, stress of a young family, lack of attention from me, low self-esteem due to 2 lots of redundancy, philandering father etc etc. I told him in no uncertain terms a couple of weeks ago that I was NOT prepared to accept this from him nor his dismissive/defensive attitude to my pain, distress and anger. He has accepted this and is trying. Not making excuses for him but he is depressed (diagnosed by GP in March) and has been for a long time. He is having individual counselling and his cbt referral on the NHS started this week too. I don't think he is a bad man, more a troubled one. But even if he does manage to change I don't think I can get over what he has done. And its breaking my heart.

[tessa6]

There are two conflicting things here, OP, and they're very confusing to try and reconcile. One pressure is a sense that if he does and says all the right things, and doesn't ever cheat again, trust could be restored and the marriage remain intact. But there is another thing that you need to step back and look at which is different from this. It is whether or not you are able to love him and be content again ever after this, no matter what he does.

Sometimes people make a bit of a mistake and confuse the two things. They think they OUGHT to want to make it work, and if they cannot find fault with the partner's restorative attempts post the affair they view that as evidence that they should continue and have chosen the right path and have no excuse to bring it up or leave.

But this confuses reconciliation and being married to a different person to the one you thought you were married to.

For some people, just the act that has been done is too much to ever really recover from and love satisfyingly ever again. it doesn't matter what attempts are made. Think of it this way, there are some people who, having dropped a slab of food on the floor, and seeing its got stuff all over it, would it anyway. There are some people who would run it under the tap then try it. And there are some people who it wouldn't even occur to to eat the bit of fish or whatever that just fallen onto the floor. It's ruined now. It's okay to be that type of person. Often that belongs to people with a very strong internal moral sense, who haven't been unfaithful themselves, who come from secure, loving backgrounds and know what they deserve. If, for you, just WHO HE IS now is unpalettable to you, then it really doesn't matter what hoops he jumps through or how open he is. He's ruined.

This takes time to process and work out. Initially it's normal to feel like you can never imagine them in your bed or in your life again, but if, over time, you still feel like something quintessential in your understanding of him has turned sour then it is okay for you to end it. It is still his failure not yours. He betrayed who you thought he was. Now you have to assess the man he has become, or actually always was. A different man, requiring a different conclusion. Know yourself here and what kind of person you are. Don't waste your time if you know.

[3HotCrossBuns]

It is so hard to try to reconcile the lovely man who did baking with the kids, took them swimming, helped with the laundry at weekends, cooked dinner for me, sent flowers occasionally and lots of other things besides with the secret lives he was leading out of the home. It all feels false and as if I've been trapped in the Matrix!!

[3HotCrossBuns]

He is now texting me angry angry messages. I am crying and have a splitting headache. What a mess.

[tessa6]

You are making tough choices tryin to do deal with what he did. Anger is not appropriate .

[schobe]

Perhaps he's showing his true colours with the angry messages.

Now that you really mean business and are demanding the respect you deserve, he is angry that he is no longer getting away with all of it.

Don't respond, but watch what his behaviour is now telling you. No need to rush into any communication or further decisions at this point.

[Ezio]

I think him leaving, is what needs to happen, for him to really grasp the enormity of his actions, he really needs to feel what losing you and his family are like.

I think you need the space and calm to get your head together.

[Viviennemary]

I too think he should leave for the time being at least. Nobody but you can decide whether this should be permanent or not. I agree that you need time and space and should not be forced into making a decision now. He is the one whose behaviour has caused all this upset. So he should not be bombarding you with angry texts. He is angry because he sees his world falling apart. But that is not your fault.

[ofmiceandmen]

Not entirely sure which wonderful MNetter first linked to this, but this may help

chumplady.com/2013/07/real-remorse-or-genuine-imitation-naugahyde-remorse/

I doubt there is real remorse. And where there is no real remorse there will be a repeat.

Sorry.

[Hassled]

You poor thing - it sounds absolutely hideous for you.

Jus take your time. You don't need to decide today or next week or even next month what you want the future to be. Don't let him pressure you and don't feel pressured by what you think is right for the DCs - they will adapt, and they'll always have 2 parents who love them.

Have you thought about Relate counselling for yourself? Having someone completely impartial to listen to you and help you make sense of what you're feeling could be really useful.

[3HotCrossBuns]

I started individual counselling a couple of weeks ago. Had 3 sessions so far - not enough to sort me out yet! Its difficult because its now the summer holidays so the kids and the counsellor are off!
He's texting about how I've not taken his 'issues' seriously, that I've belittled them and his attempts to make amends, that I've just been waiting to be strong enough to finish our marriage. He says he wants to divorce and has started talking finances. I'm due to be going to my mother's holiday apartment at some stage next week - he has texted that we will next speak in Sept!! Its just so awful. I guess I may as well set off there as soon as I've myself and the kids organised. I thought he would be nicer about it. God I'm so deluded.

[Jan45]

So he's had two affairs that you know about and is a troubled man, do you really want to spend the rest of your life with someone you can't rely on - I think you're starting to realise this, just remember he fucked it all up, there's not enough there to keep it together. If he has respected your wishes then ask he respects your space now so you can clear your head and think about what you want - if you said you would try then fine but you are entitled to change your mind and he'll just have to lump it.

[debiliem58]

You are not alone you have all our support. I understand totally what your going through. I'm going to stick my neck out here. Men are men, we women will never understand them and them us, men are not born to be faithful. DO NOT let another woman have your children's father, this is your duty as your children's mother. Take yourself into the bathroom wash your face, clean your teeth and brush your hair. Then go into the kitchen and cook something for your children slowly you'll start to feel a bit better. Try not to answer any angry texts and muster all the energy you can to get you through the rest of this day for your children's sake. Be very kind to yourself over the next few days.

[Jan45]

men are not born to be faithful - are you actually serious?

[chocoreturns]

"DO NOT let another woman have your children's father, this is your duty as your children's mother. Take yourself into the bathroom wash your face, clean your teeth and brush your hair. Then go into the kitchen and cook something for your children slowly you'll start to feel a bit better."

Um, WTAF?

Please don't think that staying with the man who has repeatedly chosen to crap all over you and your children to satisfy his own selfish desires as your duty. That is insane.

I actually think that the idea that men are slaves to their penis' is as mysanthropic as suggesting a little woman go 'fix her hair' to feel better is mysogenistic. How utterly patronising and unpleasant that attitude is.

We are all adults, we are all intelligent, sensible and responsible people and have the capacity to behave as such. Your H IS CAPABLE of making choices. He made shitty ones. So are YOU. Make the choices you damn well please and put your happiness and wellbeing at the heart of looking after your DC because a miserable, unhappy and broken mother is not what they need. (even if you have pretty hair )

I've been through it, and I can tell you I'm very glad I let some OW have my children's father. He's her problem now and he is still very much on the scene seeing them regularly, being their daddy. I don't have to worry about his wandering dick though and that's a blessed relief. It's ok to cut your losses, really it is.

[schmarn]

Be grateful for the angry messages. You now know that the good behaviour was a performance rather than genuine remorse on his part. If he had been a better actor, he could have conned you into letting him back into your life and trusting him again. Be sure of this, he would have cheated on you again. Any man that seeks to excuse his cheating by blaming other people is a hopeless case. The first part of healing is to accept responsibility for what he has done. Some men can manage that and some marriages can be saved despite the most awful betrayal. I don't see any hope here.

By what right is HE angry? Just think about that for a moment. He is angry because you are still upset about him f*cking another woman. It is dreadful I'm sure but he is doing you a favour by showing his true colours.

[Phalenopsis]

"men are not born to be faithful"

Rubbish.

Not all men cheat and not all men are abusive morons. Your husband has been found out OP and as cliched as it sounds has reverted to type. He's blaming the victim because the penny has finally dropped that you've had enough. Good for you!

[3HotCrossBuns]

The anger has started because he was supposed to be taking our DS to an event tonight with friends. As he left he said he didn't want to go so after a couple of hours I made other arrangements with the friends. He says I have 'fucked' him with that, done it on purpose, am a passive-aggressive bitch. I'm sure its just his upset at me saying we have to split coming out but nonetheless its very unpleasant.
Am feeling very shaky.

[lemonstartree]

You may NOT be able to forgive the massive betrayal. You may sincerely want to, but you may not be able to. Its much too early to make that decision right now. Your task tday is to survive today, and then tomorrow

Being nasty is what inadequate men do when they think something is being taken away from the. They sh out like children. On being kicked out my twunt ExH started texting me questioning DS3's paternity, threatening me with law suits about this and that, etc etc - I was really upset at the time. Now I just see t for what it was, a pathetic attempt to manipulate me and make me feel bad

Turn the phone off. Stop contacting him. ( I know its hard) do not read his texts.

One things that made it much easier for me was going away with the kids almost immediately after i had kicked him out (it had been prebooked) I actually had the peace and quiet to realise a) It was MUCH easier without him around b) I didn't miss him ONE bit and NOR DID THE KIDS and c) I and the kids deserved better than an abusive junkie

let him go away and stay away. Give yourself some space to just be. concentrate only on the very basics. Expect o live this was for AT LEAST 6 weeks an ignore him whining that he's suffered long enough. Don't let him make you the bad guy. His 'ISSUES' my arse. You deserve this space to figure out what you want and what you can do

Big soft hugs. You are in shock now and very distressed but it will get better

lst

[hairylittlegoblin]

HE did this. HE had the affairs. And now he is getting angry that he can't control the fall out?

It sounds like you are doing brilliantly and holding everything as together as possible for the sake of your family.

Can anyone go with you to your mother's apartment? Being well away from him could be a very good thing at the moment but probably better if you have some support with the kids.

There are some brilliant and very wise women on this board who can help you get thought this. They give great advice.

[tessa6]

Horrible behaviour from him. Think of the anger as the strategy he is using to get himself through this. Anger is a very very useful tool to propel someone away from a situation. He needs to detach from you and you need to detach from him. This will be horribly painful but it is right. The most logical thing for his mind to do, to keep him strong, is to project all the fault and flaws onto you, rebrand him as hero/victim and use that to keep him righteous and upright.

It is he who is delusional. It is his best bet for self-preservation.

What he wanted was for you to accept the infidelity, love him and keep his home and children, forgive him and not notice when he did it again. You have not done what he wanted. Hence, rage. It's a tantrum really. He sounds very emotionally immature.

YOu need to see this for what it is and maybe even start getting a bit angry yourself.

The children and friends thing is a red herring. I am very proud of you for addressing that and making other plans for yourself after here reneged himself. There is a pattern here of him doing wrong, you being forced to respond, and then him attacking you for noticing he did wrong.

What a mega prick.

[Jengnr]

Award for the worst advice EVER goes to debiliem58 applause

Of course he's being nasty now, he was only being nice while you did what he wanted.

Have a lovely holiday. Take him at his word and don't talk to him until then. It'll give you both headspace.

DO talk to a solicitor though. Talk lots to one of those!