Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide, which can point you to expert advice and support.
Letter for husband....(34 Posts)
I'm not sure whether to give this to him or not. I can't have a conversation with him about any of this as it always ends in a row. I am getting sick to death of it though. I am a happy optimistic person and I feel after 12 years I am getting dragged down. I think he suffers from depression, but won't go to the doctors about it. I think what I want to result from this letter is either he changes (not sure how likely this is), or we separate. To be honest, I'm not sure which I would prefer at the moment. Just at the end of my tether with it all.
After our conversation on Friday, which was very upsetting for me, I thought you might have turned a corner. But no, you were still moody, snappy and miserable on Sunday too. I am getting to the end of my tether with you. You are unhappy and contemplating suicide yet you will get no help. You seem to blame me for this. The person who has stood by you as you systematically try and ruin everything we do with your negativity and scathing distain. You are always bad tempered and I am quite frankly, sick of trying to help you. You seem unable to help yourself but expect me to put you and your feelings first and foremost. You have absolutely no respect for me or my feelings and I am sick to death of it. I try to keep the peace by doing everything for you and trying to not get you wound up, but nothing is ever enough. I am fed up with your aggressive outbursts, shouting and carrying on because you think something is not just so. You do nothing in the house, yet have strange expectations about what should have been done and what hasnt been done. You have absolutely no qualms about shouting and screaming in front of your son, which is, despite your protestations, very damaging for a young child. You think only of yourself. You would never put someone elses feelings first. You are extremely selfish and self centred. The overriding thing with you is that it is ALWAYS someone elses fault. You take absolutely no responsibility for your actions. Losing your temper is always my fault as Ive wound you up, the house is a shithole, there are clothes all over etc. etc. You complain about these things but it would never enter your head to do anything about it. You moan and whinge about things, but do nothing about it. You see yourself as some sort of victim, when closer to the truth is that you expect everything handed to you on a plate. The only things you do with any semblance of grace is for your own gratification. You NEVER, EVER think about anyone else. The only time I can remember you actually being nice for a whole day is when you stayed out all night after going out drinking and were clearly feeling guilty. Every other time we do anything, be it shopping or allegedly a nice trip out, you ruin it with your bad moods. Every. Single. Time. I am utterly sick of it. You belittle my paid job and what I get paid for it, yet you seem to forget that I pay over half of my measly £800 per month towards the house. You can earn double that in a day. You have tens of thousands of pounds in the bank, but refuse to pay for anything for the house. I am having to spend ALL of my inheritance on getting essential items for the house as you wont pay for anything that you dont think we need. You think youre the only one that works hard. You seem to forget that you work two days a week more than I do and that is all you do. Yet I manage to work three days a week and do all the childcare, dog walking, cooking, cleaning, gardening, washing and ironing, decorating, yet you have the audacity to say you work hard. I spent all of my PPI money on things for the house as you said we couldnt afford a dining table, despite having thousands in your savings account.
You have absolutely no respect whatsoever for me. It has to change. I am not your skivvy, or nanny, I am your wife and unless things change, I wont be that anymore. Its about time you realised what I actually do to try and keep this family together, and showed some appreciation and respect.
Well done if you've got to here
with any luck OP has gone on strike & used the time to consult a good divorce lawyer to discuss 'his' savings
Hi op how's things? Did you give him the letter?
I think that's a fantastic letter. I second the idea of verbalising the contents. I also agree that your husband is unlikely to change. I say this as the daughter of a man who sounds just like your husband. The atmosphere in my parents house depends on the mood my father is in and despite many long honest talks on the part of my mother nothing has ever changed, in fact things have got worse. My mother now thinks she should has left him years ago but has left it too late, due to the emotional blackmail he has inflicted on her for the last 40 years. I'm writing this in the hope that you don't look back in years to come and wish you had left this man. You and your son deserve to live in a happy atmosphere. Your husband may be depressed but he is responsible for his behaviour.
Apart from the money part (my dh earns a low wage self employed and I earn a bit more) I could have written your post myself this weekend
I am pretty much in exactly the same situation, I started to have it out with him on Friday eve and we haven't spoken since.
I like your letter, I think I need to write a similar one because if I try to talk he'll just deny there's a problem. If you need a hand to hold please dm me. Maybe we can do it together?
Good luck & I'm really thinking of you.
TwatinaHat I love your letter. I coulda written it myself a month ago (including that bluff about depression, that excuse lasted about three years). I had 'the chat' with stbxh three weeks ago. I puked a version of your letter out in front of him, in a river of tears and pure anger.
It was amazing. He sat there. And took it.
He has now moved out. I am now me again for the first time in ten long years. I am now the best Mum I have been for ten long years. You owe it to your children. But most of all yourself. Chuck him out. Please get free.
<extends hand for holding>
I can't have a conversation with him about any of this as it always ends in a row.
In that case, the relationship is almost certainbly beyond repair, and letters are attempting to paper over Grand Canyon-sized cracks.
I'll be buggered if I'm going to flower things up for him. There isn't anything for him to deny as it's how I feel about a situation, not how he feels he has acted.
good for you btw.
if he really is contemplating suicide then you need to just put an ultimatum - get help or leave, i wont be responsible for your suicide.
the rest is a waste of time. he wont listen. he wont change.
He's not depressed; he's fed up that his life hasn't turned out how he expected it to (ie with him in the starring role after putting in absolutely no effort) and he is lashing out on anyone he can find.
Life is far, far too short to spend it with people like this. I know you need to be careful rather than hasty, but you must realise he would need a complete personality change to become someone you could be happy with.
I'd see a solicitor about the financials, too. You might be surprised at the difference between his view and the law's view vis-a-vis "his" savings.
You're absolutely right to stop sparing his feelings & tell him exactly how shit he's making everyone feel and what a miserable, sad character he is.
Be tough, face the rage and be fully prepared for him to walk out in pride & claim he's much better off - he'll soon be back & then it's up to you if you have him and to set strict conditions for his return.
I dont agree with some posters - IME people can change but he needs to want it & it's hard work for both of you. But either way, you can't really go on as you are can you?
I have depression but dont feel the need to behave like a bastard to my OH or DCs. I have sometimes done/said things but realise it was me at fault and apologised. You are getting it in the neck from a bully and control freak IMHO - You and your Ds dont need to live like this in order to make allowances for someone who is depressed but wont help himself.
I really really feel for you and hope that your marriage can be saved, but only if you are loved and treated as you deserve - not saved by carrying on as normal
Really just offering support and agreeing with Cognito and Phalenopsis
TwatinaHat firstly sorry you are having such a shit time. You are entitled as someone who entered into what you thought was a loving and equal partnership to far more support from your h than you are getting. he on the other hand is not entitled to be treat you the way that he does both in his inaction and his actions.
I second those who are saying he is abusive. This is all, remarkably similar to the situation I was in (my x used rage and misery to prevent me from asking him to do anything) and that of many of the posters in the EA thread. If you have not already been over there do come and read some of the information/links at the top of he thread as you may find it useful and also feel very welcome to post- we are a friendly bunch and always there to offer a shoulder, some advice based on very similar experiences to yours or just a space to have a really good vent.
and I do know it is hard to hear people calling your h abusive if you have not already arrived at this conclusion for yourself. I was totally the first time someone suggested it. Then as i came to speak to others who had been through the same I felt validated and a lot less confused. Although to some extent I am still reeling and will continue to do so for a long time. So please, I know this may all sound a bit harsh and be horrible to hear but it is offered from a kind place IYSWIM.
on the issue of trying to fix him. you can't. but be wary of delving too deep into codependency. it is understandable when you are in a partnership that is becoming impossible to try to do everything you can to fix it. but if only one partner is trying it is irreparable. but never blame yourself for having tried. Just know that once you have tried and nothing has changed then you are most likely not the one causing the problem and that you can only change yourself and not someone else.
You should not have to change yourself to the point where you are angry, frustrated and can barely recognise who you used to be in order that someone else can sit about all day moaning about how tough their life is.
Abuse of this sort is not about how he feels it is about how he thinks. he is using his 'feelings' as an excuse to do nothing and to behave badly because he thinks he is entitled to do so.
Speaking as someone who has been mentally ill I'd just like to vent my fury on your husband Twatinahat. It incenses me when people use their mental health problems as an excuse for being abusive.
Yes, depression can be a very selfish illness. I have done things which have hurt my partner and this is a man who has always supported me. When I reached rock bottom and he came home to find me sat in the car with a tea towel stuffed up the exhaust, he knew it was time to go to the doctor and I went willingly because I knew that ANYTHING, anything was better than living in the hell that I was in at that time. At no point did I denigrate his job, or his friends or tell him what he was doing wasn't good enough. Actually he was so wonderful, that it did make me feel quite useless at times but that was my problem not his and I made that very clear.
Put bluntly, depression is not an excuse to behave like an arsehole. If he's ill and yes, it will be difficult for him to see the wood for the trees, then he needs to see his doctor not just for him but also for your relationship. If he can't or won't see that then there's little hope for you both really. As awful as mental illness is, bit by bit sufferers have to try to help themselves. It doesn't have to take the form of grand gestures.
Of course, there might be nothing wrong with him as other posters have suggested. If this is true then he's a git of the highest order. A disgrace to himself and mankind. He's a leech and I have no time for him whatsoever.
He does not care how pissed off you are. Demeaning you as he has and is doing is his very reason for being. Also he sounds narcissistic in terms of personality as well seeing as he only does stuff too solely for his own gratification.
BTW how does this man get along with his parents?. My guess is not well (his dad is perhaps similar to him) and your H perhaps shows particular scorn towards his own mother. Such men actually hate women.
From the letter you don't sound like you have a shred of positive feelings left for him to be honest. What on earth are you trying to save?
"Where you are starting a lot of sentences with the word 'you' it is very likely to put him on the defensive and deny it, but if you say it with phrases such as 'I feel that you...' 'I am upset when...happens' then he may respond better."
To be honest, I don't really give a shit about that. The time has passed for me to be arsed if he gets defensive. He is, with past performances, going to get defensive, so I'll be buggered if I'm going to flower things up for him. There isn't anything for him to deny as it's how I feel about a situation, not how he feels he has acted. It's about time he realised how pissed off I am.
I'm sorry but I disagree with that xalyssx. IME bullies love nothing more than confirmation that they have made someone feel bad or upset. It's their raison d'etre. It doesn't matter if he goes on the defensive and denies his behaviour, he's being told to 'shape up or ship out' and I think that's only recourse the OP has left.
OP, you said: "I am not making any rash decisions, I've put 12 years into this and I need to be 100% about the decision I make, as once it's done, it's done. I do feel alot better for actually writing things down. I am not going to give the letter to him. I am going to have a chat tonight about everything and see what he (nearly put we, but it's about time he did something) is going to do to change things."
I totally understand that, but you do realise that, after 12 years, he isn't going to change, don't you? He may give a bit of lip service that he will, but he won't. He likes belittling you and bullying you. As someone else said, what is your child picking up on about how people are treated in relationships? You and your child are both being abused and I don't see how doing anything other than leaving is going to improve things for either of you.
Where you are starting a lot of sentences with the word 'you' it is very likely to put him on the defensive and deny it, but if you say it with phrases such as 'I feel that you...' 'I am upset when...happens' then he may respond better.
"I am not making any rash decisions, I've put 12 years into this and I need to be 100% about the decision I make, as once it's done, it's done. "
That's a sensible approach to take and why I suggest getting legal advice as well. You need to make your decision based on as much good information as possible.
Best of luck with your talk this evening.
I think the letter is excellent, and am glad you aren't going to be putting up with this hideous situation for any longer. Perhaps if the talk goes tits up, you could have the letter ready to give to him?
I think talking to him will be a wasted effort on your part because you'll be hearing the same old over and over again.
I would also read up on co-dependency and see if that rings any bells with you personally. I state that because you've mentioned trying to fix things. What you have tried to date has not worked so its now time for a different approach. Doing the same things over and over in the hopes of a different result in a relationship is just plain barmy.
You cannot rescue and or save someone who does not want to be helped and 12 years of this is more than enough for anyone to stomach. You are perhaps now really a shadow of the person you were, he's done that to you and by turn your child. This is really no life for your and your DS to be witness too; your DS is learning from you both about relationships and he is being taught many damaging lessons here.
"I think he suffers from depression, but won't go to the doctors about it."
I think you'll find he suffers from being a miserable bullying git and that, if he went to a doctor, they'd find nothing clinically wrong at all.
Hahahaha!! I think you might have a point there!!!
Where I am at the moment is I need to figure out what I want. And I am not sure what that is. I absolutely am not carrying on how it is, but I need to know whether I am prepared to waste any more time trying to fix things or to just walk away. I am not making any rash decisions, I've put 12 years into this and I need to be 100% about the decision I make, as once it's done, it's done. I do feel alot better for actually writing things down. I am not going to give the letter to him. I am going to have a chat tonight about everything and see what he (nearly put we, but it's about time he did something) is going to do to change things.
Joint counselling is never recommended where there is ongoing emotional abuse as there is here. Abusive men always but always blame their victim i.e you for their actions, its never their fault, they never apologise and they never take responsibility for their actions.
Abuse is about power and control; this man wants absolute over you all.
I would read "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft and make plans to legally separate. Obtain good legal advice so you know where you stand legally.
You have a child, what do you want to teach this young person about relationships, surely not this dysfunctional role model of one for them to possibly go onto emulate as adults. He certainly won't thank you for staying with such an individual and if you were to choose to, he could call you daft for doing so and ask you why you put this man before him?.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.