I never bonded with DD1 and never realised until DD2 arrived.

[willieverloveher]

I had severe PND with DD1. It was severe and people who i thought were helping such as MIL i believe made it worse.

MIL kept taking over with dd so i never had to do much. She first took her out when she was 5days old. Whenever we went to MIL she would feed, change, cuddle DE. basically took over but said she was helping.

I had severe depression and was second 18months later. MIL told dp to keep me away from her baby. Which never happened and dp and i cut off a bit from her.

As i had bad depression and people kept taking over. I couldn't bond.

I thought i did but now i have dd2 i know i never. I feel this big rush of love to dd2. Everything she does is amazing.

I had a bad pregnancy and labour ending in crash section with DD2. We both nearly died. DD1 was brought in to see us. DD1 pregnancy and labour was great. The pregnancy and labour i wanted again it was so perfect.

Since f2f has came along DD1 behaviour is really bad. She shouts,screams, hits, bites and back chat. She is behaving terribly. I want cope with her. Overtime i look at at her i feel nothing. I keep thinking it would be best to give her up. She never wanted me when she was a baby, she always wanted Mil.

I want to love her but dont know how. Is it to late? Have i messed her life up? Will it be best to allow her what she wants and to live with mil?

[willieverloveher]

Sorry about spelling in on my phone

[willieverloveher]

Severe depression and sectioned.

Since Dd2 came along.

[ClaraOswald]

How old is DD1?

[AnnaClaudia]

How old is dd1? What's the age gap between them?

[MagicHouse]

I want to love her but dont know how. Is it to late? Have i messed her life up? Will it be best to allow her what she wants and to live with mil?


That sounds very sad for both of you. I'm sure she really doesn't want to live with your MIL. All her playing up means she really, really wants attention from you. It must be really difficult for her, but I can imagine really difficult for you too. Is it possible for you have some time alone with her while someone looks after the baby - maybe for a regular time every week. I don't think it's too late, but I think maybe you need to put some time aside for her. I think if you let her go to stay with your MIL that deep down she would be devastated that you could let her go, and the answer lies in working to create a bond between you by giving her some time.

[MagicHouse]

Sorry missed your last post - sorry things are so difficult for you. I think you need to work on getting better first (then have time with your older DD once you are at home and feeling better.)

[ImperialBlether]

I think you really need to work on bonding with her. I'm so sorry you had such an awful time. Fake it until you make it is common advice - love bomb her and convince her you love her and think she's special. I'm so sorry for both of you, but I know it's you she wants.

[AnnaClaudia]

I had a similar experience with my first two dd's, though sounds like your post natal depression was very severe, thank goodness you seem to have escaped it with the second pregnancy. Don't be too hard on yourself, give it time, the love for your first born may come, but in my experience it will be different....but then again, as each child is different, so the way we love them is also different. Just try to take each day as it comes.

[biggestregret]

Hey there ... I didn't want to read and run. It's not too late and you haven't messed her life up. When you are severely depressed it is almost impossible to look at things with a rational mind. You sound like you have had a truly awful time. And you sound like you are still poorly. Are you still under your GP or Mental Health Team's care?

FWIW I also had PND with both my children. I rejected DS2 very early on and it has taken a while to form a bond but there is one. It is not perfect but it is better than it was. PND is a horrid horrid illness which takes a long time to recover from and requires a lot of support from your family friends and the medics. Every day you wake up and get through the day and look after those children you are surviving it. Hold on, I'm sure others will be here to help. I am here to and happy to listen x

[Mumsyblouse]

I would second love bombing as an approach (it's in a book by the awful but spot on in this instance Oliver James), on the times I've felt very out of sync with my children which happens from time to time it's always doing that type of thing that works for me.

I think you are being very hard on yourself. I did not bond instantly with dd1 at all, it took many many months. I then had dd2 and had that instant rush of love. But it is easy to love a new baby and associate all that bad first experience with one child, especially a tantrummy toddler, but you have to directly tackle this and not want it to happen to change it.

Have you talked with a counsellor/health visitor about your worries about lack of bonding with dd1- there are programmes that help with helping mothers bond with their children and perhaps you could get some outside help with this- it's extremely successful and basically gets you to just fake it til you make it, so play on a one to one interactional style with the child, for a set amount of time every day, until those feelings start to emerge.

This is not a hopeless situation AT ALL, it is just an exaggerated version of what many women go through if they have a difficult first birth/PND then a new little charming next baby, I was besotted with dd2 as a tiny baby, but if I am utterly honest, there have been times even with her as a toddler/older child where we have not got on as well/lost that feeling, and it has come back again. I don't see these things as static, I love my children all the time, but that 'in love' 'besotted' feeling doesn't last for ever, it won't even with your second, but will transform into a more steady experience.

Don't ever thing about putting your dd1 with your MIL, that is not what she wants, and it will be the ultimate rejection of her, you really have to keep her within your little family with your DH's support and work on your own relationship with her over the longer term. She is not messed up and you have lots of time to turn this around, honest.

[Mumsyblouse]

I also think some help with parenting a difficult toddler might help- I found at this age that being very firm (in a kind way) and stopping any problems before they started/put in time out worked for my dd1 who was quite badly behaved when my second arrived. Some people find ignoring tantrumming toddlers works but it never worked for me.

You can be both firm, have strong boundaries with a toddler, but also try love bombing as well, it doesn't mean just let any old thing happen.

Can your DH help with taking dd2 for a short while while you just put aside 15 min a day in a routine sitting with dd1, playing with her, doing what she likes to do?

[willieverloveher]

Sorry i never replied sooner dd2 was badly teething.

DD1 is 4 dd2 is 4months.

[willieverloveher]

Pressed post to soon with help from dd2. I will settle her down then reply properly.

[spooktrain]

I have a very similar situation: pnd after DS1, no rush of love, no bonding, a horrible first 18 months.
with DS2 I realised what the rush of love was, and also how much had been missing from my relationship with DS1.

I think there are various strands here: your own feelings of guilt about the lack of bonding, the lasting trauma of PND and being sectioned, your relationship with interfering MIL undermining you, and DD1 acting up due to the arrival of DD2 and testing your love to the max

I recommend the book Siblings without Rivalry (adele faber and elaine something). It gives a very good insight into how DD1 will be feeling about the arrival of DD2. I also found it refreshing to read that it is quite normal to have a different intensity of feeling about different children - they term the 'favourite' child as 'the child who speaks to your heart' - which is what DS2 continues to be for me. The important thing I think is to recognise these feelings and accept them and then work to ensure that DD1 is valued and cherished as much as DD2 is. 15 minutes a day of just you and her is a great place to start to discover her own individual qualities and build a relationship where she feels loved and appreciated for what she is.

and remember that children live very much in the here and now - you can't change the past but every day with your daughter is a new opportunity to build a loving relationship

[TheThickPlottens]

I think that you do love your DD1 immensely as you are fearing that she might be hurting and trying to figure out how to put her needs first.

It's great that she has the love coming from her MIL too. There's plenty of room in life to get love from many places. It doesn't have to come from just one or two people exclusively. But don't let your MIL diminish your self confidence with DD1 any more.

Playing is a great way to connect with children. Do you get any opportunities to just play with your dds with no other distractions from the normal hum drum of life?

At only 4 years, there is lots of time to create a bond. There's no time limit so don't put pressure on yourself thinking that there's an expiration date.

[PiHigh]

I agree with what everyone else about feeling guilty (I know I did after having pnd with dd1 and not dd2), being hard on yourself, etc. but I also wanted to say she's 4

Dd1 didn't change after dd2 was born but OMG did it hit me when she turned 4. I think 4 & 5 were the worst two years I've had with her. Everything was a battle, pushing all the boundaries and all the emotional stuff (her only wanting Dh - she's still a bit like that now!). I also found that because she's that age, she would get annoyed that she was being told off for things that dd2 was also doing (because obviously you can't explain to a 2yo in the same way as a 4yo). I have to say she much improved when she turned 6 recently.

[PiHigh]

Oh and also, now that Dd2 is 3 and Dd1 is 6 I'm finding it feel far more balanced love-wise. Dd2 is now entering that really difficult stage just as dd1 is coming out of it and I can sort of look back now and see it as an age thing rather than a pnd thing.

[MarshmallowRoot]

Aww OP I feel for you.

It's so complicated and the first thing you need to try to do is to let go of blaming yourself.

I have almost the exact same situation as you, except mine are now older. I had severe severe PND when I had my first child, was almost sectioned, I felt trapped, suffocated for the first 2 years and would leave her with family most of the time. I couldn't handle her, although she was just an average child not a difficult baby. Bonding was there, but incomplete and I often wondered whether to give her to my aunt.

I expected to feel a similar way when I had DS when DD was 4. But I did get the rush of love and protective feelings, didn't want to leave him with anyone much.

It felt very strange. I still have guilt, even though I do now feel a huge amount of love for DD (now 8) and closeness, sort of grew into it. I still struggle slightly with cuddling her and physical affection, it's like I never got into the habit of it, but I know the love runs deep, and I do give both child equal affection, just it's a bit more "planned" with DD, iyswim.

Please don't give up your first child. I think you will find that when it comes to it, your love will come through more than you realise. I'm so glad now I didn't do that to her or to me.

[Vivacia]

I find it helpful to ask myself questions such as, "In a week, how many hours should I be giving that child my undivided attention in play?" or "during each bath time, how much praise should I give this child?". Writing it down that sounds a bit premeditated and, er, strange(!) but I find that it really helps.
Really, spending one hour alone with the oldest doing some painting isn't too much too ask, but can so easily get squeezed out if we're not careful.

[tazmo]

I think it's important to get yourself well. Your dd1 needs her mum and it will get better but you have to let go on what's gone before and lose the guilt. Bad PND distorts things and it is natural for people to worry about the young children when severe PND hits mum - but you are her mum plain and simple.it is important for you to accept all the help you can. My SIL,was worried her kids would be taken away because of PND but she is well again and you can get through this. She sought help from the family (FIL is GP and he helped SIL loads).

Everyone gets PND to a degree. I did not bond as well with ds1 because. I didn't have him naturally, could not breast feed, felt everyone took him off me - but they did it to give me a break and I understand now it was to help me. I wasn't too bad but my relationship with ds1 is so much better as I try to spend time with all. Behaviour in kids get better when they get attention. He is 4 now and I know he needs me as much as my other 2 children even though he's the oldest.

A girl in our town killed herself due to,severe PND when her dd1 was 6 weeks old. This is incredibly sad as that girl does not have a mother. The town was shocked and so many local groups have been set up to avoid this happening to other women if the can. PND is incredibly common and you need to,let more people in. Children need their mother warts and all. They will have kids in the future and will need you!

Ditch the guilt, get well, take it day by day and you will get through this. None of us are super mum!

[DippyDoohDahDay]

I relate to you too, op. my second ds and I nearly died in labour. First was comparably easier, but until ds2 came along, I did not realise the lacking in my relationship with ds1. Ds1 has recently been diagnosed with high functioning autism, which explains some of his emotional distance. I am not, by the way, suggesting this could be the same for you. But ds1 behaviour can be complex and challenging and irritating. I feel like I get on at him more, which must effect his self esteem. So I try to hug him first when I get home (even though ds2 is chomping at the bit to get to me), and once a month we have a "date" day where it's just me and him, indulging in his hobbies and going for lunch together.
I once read on here that just 20 mins a day of your attention makes a child happy in that day ..possibly even less. I once thought, for a while, that it would be better to give up ds1. That will pass for you. Please don't beat yourself up, but take some of the great advice on here. Very best wishes x