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A little help please- long(40 Posts)
I've known my OH since 2007, as acquaintances.
We bumped into one another on a night out in November '12 (my birthday) and he messaged me the day after asking how my night was. We really hit it off and have a lot in common.
He asked to meet up and do some xmas shopping together, nothing exciting.
I knew he had a GF whom he lived with but didn't bring it up in this meeting as were only meeting up as friends to get some bits from town.
We met another two times (nothing sexual at all) and I eventually brought up the huge elephant in the room. He was very upset and said their relationship was non existent and not working out, as soon as they moved in together (months ago) they argued continually and all romantic attraction had vanished on both sides. They had agreed they felt more like brother and sister, not lovers.
I said that it needed to be over before any happened, although unfortunately this rule didn't stick hard and fast.
Xmas came by and we were messaging non stop everyday and seeing each other. He went away to his family for xmas and I was phoned everyday and all was lovely.
When he returned, they decided to sit down, discuss it and go on an official 'break'. They were both tied into the rental contract for a long-ish time and neither have family or anywhere to go in the area so it seemed the right thing for them to do, bearing in mind they had to live with each for the foreseeable future.
This meant we continued to date with more freedom and really fell in love. It was a case of seeing out the rental contract so they could move out and she was planning to move away.
In february, I discovered a photo of him and her at xmas time on FB, despite the fact he'd gone away to his family alone. I went mental as we had talked everyday then, therefore at one point in that time he was lying to me about where he was. He explained in depth the reason why, he was worried as we were so new that it would freak me out/I'd run a mile and his thoughts of doing that were completely irrational. I felt like i'd caught him out and she and I were both being two timed. Although he did explain everything and it doesn't feel like that now. It turns out he went to her family for one day after xmas for a xmas meal for the other halves and friends of the family, they apparently slept in separate beds that night.
They called the relationship off entirely but obviously had to carry on living together and all was civil. I was really struggling with the idea he was living with her and it made me physically ill. Despite the fact they are entirely separate and in separate rooms etc etc.
Their flat is empty and she's as good as moved out. I went around there the other day with him. There was washing in the machine which belonged to him and her. I wasn't happy at all about the fact they do/did washing together and said it was an insult to our relationship that he is handling her smalls on a daily basis in a comfortable way.
He told me that she'd put it on a few days ago and he never EVER touches her stuff. end of.
I then had a lightbulb moment, hours later, where I realised an item of clothing of his
that was in there was something he'd worn the day before therefore the ONLY person who could have washed the load was him, as noone else was there, so he had lied to me!
I went mental and told him I am not going to be in a relationship with a compulsive liar and there was no need to tell that lie. it was pointless! especially over washing FGS.
He has explained to me that the reaosn he had told these lies were ridiculous. He's never been in this position before and it has affected him greatly and not necessarily for the best, causing him to lie. Told me he isn't thinking straight when he tells the lies, he just doesn't want to upset me. I told him that I wasn't sure how I could trust him when he lies like that. He was in tears and apologising in every way, admitting to it all and saying how he doesn't want to lose me. He also can't see how we can move forward without me letting go and starting a clean slate.
I've always got in my mind, the thought of them at xmas together (they were together one day) whilst i naively thought otherwise. I know he was trying to protect me from being upset about it, i think it was a typical 'man' reaction to do that.
He has completely sorted all of it out now and its just him and I now. No complications. He gives me everything, tells me everything, spends all his time with me or thinking about me and makes me feel amazing. I know he's in love with me completely, he has cried twice at the idea of losing me. Aside from those lies, he has been honest (i think!) about him and her, what its like living there and what they are like (obviously all over now).
so, I ask...
Was I unreasonable to flip out that they share washing, whilst they were living as housemates?
How would you feel about the xmas lie?
How can I get over it and move on?
Am I an idiot?
I do realise that sometimes it is a good thing that him and his ex are civil, they have no beef with each other, which I respect. He clearly wasn't an utter wanker to her at home or anything, which I hear about too much on here!
We love each other very much and will stay together regardless but I need to move on from this break in trust, he's explained all he can so I now need to let go.
Are you an idiot? .... When talking about feelings, nothing is 'idiotic' and you should trust your judgement. If you're getting a bad feeling about this man, if you don't think he's been honest with you and if you think there have been a few too many cheesy excuses for things like Christmas absences and washing in machines then all those feelings are perfectly valid. 'Trying to protect you' is such a hackneyed explanation trotted out by those who are hiding the truth that it's almost a cliché.
FWIW even though you've known this guy for a few years he sounds like he's rushing you with all this 'in love with me completely' thing. I don't like the fact that he turned on the waterworks. Emotional pressure to get his own way is a bad sign. I don't like that he was meeting up with you while he was supposed to be living with someone else and then went on to bad-mouth his ex. Decent men don't do that. You don't owe him anything and he really doesn't sound trustworthy to me at all. When there's no trust you've got nothing.
How do you know "they" are over? Has she told you, or is it all coming from him?
I think he is a big fat liar.
I don't know if it's over between her and him or not, but I'm pretty positive he's being way less than completely honest with you. On that basis alone, I would call it off. You have nothing if you are always trying to work out how 'economica with the truth' he's being.
An adult would have sat down and explained the situation in all its awkwardness to you. For that matter, a sensible adult would not have contemplated starting another relationship until he'd properly moved on from the one he was in.
I think he has consistently told you a pack of lies and it's highly possible that his girlfriend knows nothing about breaking up with him or that he's got someone else.
But because you got involved with him when he was still with his partner and you didn't stick by the rule you put in place, he believes you are comfortable with deception and lies. If you consent to a relationship with a man who isn't being honest with one woman, it's irrational and illogical to expect him to be honest with you.
"We love each other very much and will stay together regardless "
If you're going to stay with him regardless, don't put pressure on yourself to 'let go'. Keep your radar finely tuned, look out for inconsistencies in his story, let him earn your trust... but properly. Not just talking a good game and sobbing when the questions get a bit too difficult. Also, don't let him monopolise your time. You said 'he spends all his time with me'... and that isn't necessarily healthy. Keep your friends and your independence etc.
You might want to ask him how long he'd known the ex before they moved in together. Learn from her mistakes...
I AM OP, sorry i pressed hide thread and can't undo it so had to make a new one :s
Sorry it clearly isn't clear, they are absolutely over! She has resigned from her job, paid him the rent up front and moved to the other side of the country!!! and that is not from word of mouth, I KNOW.
I know their relationship was dead too. Obviously we have mutual friends etc etc.
A similar thing happened to me OP. I am sad to say that the original relationship was not over and I was unwittingly the other woman
Unless you are getting this info from her and she is around and knows about you and it's all very clearly a flatshare type situation I would be dubious and keep my distance. My feeling is that this can't end well.
He has also never bad mouthed her, which is what I said I respected. They are still civil and he has told me he cares for her as a person.
"I eventually brought up the huge elephant in the room. He was very upset and said their relationship was non existent and not working out, as soon as they moved in together (months ago) they argued continually and all romantic attraction had vanished on both sides. They had agreed they felt more like brother and sister, not lovers. "
What was this exchange if not bad-mouthing the ex?
Well, ok, but you've already caught him out lying to you, plus he's doing a lot of sobbing (referencing Cogito's first post)... , I am still waving my red bunting atm.
He's not insulting her, he's explaining the situation. Perhaps we have different understandings of bad mouthing?
He has never said a nasty thing about her, her personality etc etc. They were in love! They moved in after 18 months of being together. They've just grown apart, things haven't worked out for them.
He is the first to admit all of the above, they had lots of plans together but their feelings for each other changed last year, and it progressed to nothing.
I didn't really think I'd get flamed on here!
You're not being flamed. Your original post was all about how you are struggling to trust him and, if anything, we're all saying 'we're not surprised'. Quite supportive, really.
'Bad mouthing' can be done in a nice way, you know? 'You're lovely and my soul mate and the love of my life..... not like that woman I'm living with who <sad look> I thought I was in love with but <wipes tear> turned out to be so argumentative that <chokes> we're more like brother and sister...."
toby, sorry, but he's lied about so much. you don't just decide you're going to start from scratch. life doesn't work like that. lying is part of his character - it comes easily to him. it's the easy way out.
right now he might believe that it's a fresh start blah blah blah but as soon as things start being a bit more mundane, a bit normal, the shine has worn off, the lying will start again.
you don't really know where you stand with this man. you can't trust him.
Ok. sorry I'm being over reactive probably!
Well, she was the one who referred to them as brother and sister, she is the one that called the break, he is the one to pull the curtains on the whole thing.
He has explained the awkwardness of it all, I've been patient with it as I absolutely can picture how awkward it is for them. He is very descriptive in the way he describes it and judging by timings, pictures he's sent me, what they've individually been up to, I know it is all true.
I just thought the shared washing load (last one ever) was weird. I wonder whether I am being UR to be annoyed about it when they are absolutely, definitely, solid gold evidence over yet still sharing washing? Would you have been annoyed? He said it was just habit, they use a laundry basket and either of them does it when it is full, which is obviously what happens but like I said, the idea of him handling her underwear makes me cringe.
thanks claude- that's what's on my mind.
He obviously doesn't see it like that, he sees it all sunshine, lollipops and rainbows forever and ever but realistically times will get mundane etc and I need to know he will be there for those times.
He is aware of his shortcomings, and he has said to me that he doesn't want to be in relationship with me if it is going to be like that. He doesn't want there to always be skeletons in the closet that I will bring up, and that we need to move on and that he needs to re-earn my trust.
That;s why he's upset;as am I. As he loves me but doesn't want us starting off like this, and he is fully aware it is all his doing that has done this.
If she has moved to the other side of the country, why does he still have clothes of hers to wash?
Have you ever actually spoken to this woman to hear her side of the story?
yes, as hard as this might be, i'd phone her up, i really would.
she'll either say 'yeah he's a top bloke, just didn't work out' or she'll confirm that he's a serial liar.
of course, you can't trust what she says but ultimately you should go with your gut feel.
don't dismiss your instincts. you suspect enough to have started this thread.
because she's moved, all stuff in the garage. come back for four days this week to finish packing everything then is going for good on Saturday, with all furniture and big items etc in a van with her dad. So still had basic clothing at the flat, as was travelling by train home, therefore still had washing. Does that make sense?
He's not at the flat at the moment as has family stuff to do back home, so they won't actually see each other again. That's it.
It's really hard to describe! sorry if it sounds senseless, but it makes sense in my head.
toby, I think you know this is all very fishy and I think you should listen to your instincts.
Even if he is not lying, you are at worst rebound, and I think you need to take a big step back before you get in too deep
Claude, I see your point and agree. She barely speaks to him and is never going to return to this city after Saturday, so not sure how I would?
I've driven past her 3 times in the last month, obviously didn't pull over or say anything.
I think he'd not enjoy that either but who knows, I've never asked!
if you see her again you could pull over and have a chat.
ok, you're in two minds. so proceed with caution. time will tell.
just don't make any commitments until you're sure. def don't move in with him although i suspect that's what he's hoping will happen.
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