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Just asked H to move out (temporarily). WTF do I do now?(50 Posts)
H and I have been together for 9yrs, married for 5yrs. We have DD who is just about to turn one.
Things have always been up and down but started to be awful when I fell pg. H was unsympathetic and, I can't think of a better way of saying this, mean.
There have been too many arguments to mention but I think at the heart of it, he feels unhappy in his work / life and blames me for this. He hasn't said as much but I think he expects me to make him happy and the when he isn't happy, he blames me. He is in counselling as he had a pretty crappy childhood but he has been in counselling for YEARS and nothing seems to have changed.
We have been to couples counselling (instigate by me) twice. He gets all inspired about better communication, a more adult way of approaching me / life and this is great but it only lasts for a few months.
In terms of specific things that are wrong, the main one goes back to him being mean. He points scores, tries to 'catch me out' with things, always assumes a negative intent in everything I say or do (I realise that sounds as if I am generalising. I am not. I mean always and everything). He puts so much energy into trying to make me feel like a bad person yet he does nothing constructive to improve his own life and to deal with what he says are the main things that get him down.
For example, he is self employed and business is going well. He claims to hate bits of his job but won't consider getting someone else in to do them even though he could afford to. He complains about feeling sluggish and tired the whole time (NB I have done ALL the night duties with DD and I work) but insists on drinking a lot most nights, smoking heavily, eating poorly and going to bed late.
He complains about not having enough creativity in his life (stifled by me, obvs) but when I suggested a way that he could free up a day a week to do something creative (meaning I would take on extra DD and financial commitments so he could do this) he accused me of being a fascist and a martyr. (Which I thought was an interesting combination).
I feel that what he likes is to complain about seemingly insoluble dilemmas rather than doing anything to solve them IYSWIM.
Eg I did a masters degree a few yrs ago while working full time. I got early, worked late, worked weekends etc. When I suggested that, in order to incorporate extra creative time into his week, he could get up at 7:30 (GET UP, not even start work), he told me I was being outrageous and that is not the kind of life he wants. NB I have been up at 5:30 most mornings last week to fit in work before DD gets up as I look after her most days as well as being the main income earner.
I feel like I am living with a lazy adolescent, not a 40yr so called adult.
So I asked him to move out for a few days. I said i would cover the costs. I just need some space when I am not being criticised and stressed out by his behaviour.
If we sold our house, I could afford a little place for DD and me and that thought makes me happy. Thinking of staying with him makes me feel sad and heavy.
Bugger. Reading back, I think I've already decided to leave, haven't I?
Holy crap. WTF do I do now?
I am sorry to post and run but I have to go out now so I might not be able to check MN again until later this PM. I could really do with some advice / hand holding / someone to come round and drink gin with me? <only half joking>
I would suggest you get professional advice and some practical/moral support from friends. By professional advice I mean a solicitor or CAB. They can help you think about the financial/legal aspects of making the split permanent. Friends (and family) can bring the gin.
Oh shame it's only for a few days. I was going to say well done for getting rid. I can see no redeeming features in this man whatsoever.
For whatever reason, he sees you as the enemy. Enemies are far better not living together.
I strongly advise that you move heaven and earth to make his absence from the house more prolonged - and then for it to turn into a proper separation BEFORE HE GETS BACK IN.
If he gets back in I really think you'd struggle to get him out.
Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.
If the thought of him not being there is making you happy, then yes, I think you have your answer.
From what you've posted, I honestly can't see one good thing you are getting out of this relationship. I wouldn't be financing the cost of him going away for a few days - if business is going well, then he can pay for it himself. I think that part of this is that, in paying for this, you are still continuing to take responsibility for everything and he is just sitting back and letting you. You've not decided this on a whim - his behaviour has led to this, so let him start taking some responsibility for it.
In terms of practical advice, I would use the next few days to separate finances - get your wages transferred into an account solely in your name, remove yourself (or him) from joint credit cards, gather together all the financial info a solicitor would need to see with a view to formally separating (pension, investments, etc). Book an appt with a solicitor - it never hurts to see where you would both stand.
You will be happier without the millstone, from what you have said that is utterly obvious
And so will he, if the way he slags you off (wtf ???) is true
Put your marriage down like the sick puppy it is.
Hi all, thanks so much for your posts.
I have to be quick as I am in between putting DD to bed and getting dinner sorted so I can't respond to everyone but thank you for taking the time to post.
And schobe what you said about him seeing me as the enemy is exactly what it feels like.
Anyway, he agreed to stay elsewhere for a few days and we are going to sort out something more long term at the end of the week.
He wants to get back together and keeps saying how sorry he is about what he has done and said and that he "didn't mean it." Is it me or is that classic abuser speak? Like I should just get over it because he didn't mean it so it's all fine.
Thanks again for your posts
I think it's a case of too little too late.
You've had joint counselling twice. If he wanted to change he'd have done it then
If you take him back he'll revert to type again.
"I didn't mean it" is just bollocks - the only answer is "so what exactly did you mean?". Most people mean what they say, most of the time. Even if he didn't actually believe the words that were coming out of his mouth, he still knew how they were making you feel, so he did mean it.
Good luck - I think you can say with complete honesty that you've given this relationship your best shot. It sounds like you've put up with more than most of would have done. So don't be paralysed with "if only I'd done/said X, Y and Z".
I'd LTB just for his having the sheer fucking brass neck to complain about the idea of getting up at 7.30 when you do all the early mornings. How dare he. The lazy fucker.
Yes the whole "I didn't mean it" thing struck me as an extraordinarily odd thing for a grown man to say. Either he's lying or he is totally lacking in self awareness / self control / self editing skills.
And yes the allergy to getting up at 7:30 did make me want to pour cold water over him. At 5:30 when I get up.
I am now a bit embarrassed at having put up with him for so long. I can't tell you what a relief it has been having my evening to myself with no whining, criticism or loafing. I dare say the situation will hit me like a ton of bricks tomorrow but for tonight, DD and I have had a lovely time together and I am enjoying a quiet drink on the sofa while being nose butted by my cat
Whether it's classic abuser-speak or not (I wouldn't know) but "I didn't mean it" is not enough to cover years of meanness. These are the facts. He has a long pattern of being negative and unmotivated and taking it out on you. Either he isn't addressing it in his therapy or his therapy isn't helping him. You made arrangements for joint therapy and it didn't help him. There is no way he is not aware of those facts, but he hasn't addressed them, and that's not okay. I don't know if you should divorce, but if he wants to stay married to you then he should be coming up with a concrete plan of how he will change things so that he will take responsibility for his own happiness and for his part in your happiness with him.
I'm sorry to be the one not giving it the LTB script here, but that's pretty much all I see here, and it upsets me really. I wonder where these perfect MN relationships are, and I wonder how the people that live them really feel all of the time.
But I digress.
My non professional opinion is this:
Your DHs therapy isn't working.
You are on the moral high ground with your hard work, he possibly feels shame, resentment or guilt or all as a result.
You are the main money earner, making him feel even more inadequate.
Despite all his "free" time he is still not able to do the things he really wants to in his life, and may well feel impossibly pulled in all directions by family and his business.
Much of his responses are possible the result of warped thinking.
Your DH is on some level Bipolar, currently depressed which can possibly offer lethargy, lack of energy, seeing alcohol as a crutch and most of the negative aspects you mention that seem to be current.
At times your DH is no depressed, but as you say inspired, possibly to the extent of being hypomanic.
I have a few very basic questions you need to ask of yourself. Do you love him? Do you want him in his best form to be a part of your life and the life of your daughter?
If you think you do, then helping your DH to be a better person, and thinking more clearly, with non judgemental encouragement (pretty much like you would a child it has to be said) may have a big impact on things. If he can work on things to be more positive in what he does, for example improving diet, exercising and stopping (or cutting right back) on drinking and smoking.
I await the comments like "but a good partner just shouldn't be like that" and I would in some part agree. But sometimes being a good person to everyone else begins with being good to yourself, and that can be hard when all your life experiences from your past and current life reinforce your negative interpretation of things happing in the now. So the key is to take some positive steps, like better mental health management, but if your DH is not interested that is going to be difficult. Being the partner of someone in his position is not easy, and carries it's own problems, but I am sure that you appreciate after this time that it's likely not a walk in the part for your DH.
It could of course be the case that your DH is complete ladies bits, but in this case I'm not so sure.
Good luck to both of you.
"helping your DH to be a better person"
This makes me so angry. It is not any woman's responsibility - indeed it's not even in her power - to help a man to be a decent human being rather than a nasty piece of work. Plenty of women have wasted their lives trying.
Interesting post squibb. With the best will in the world there is nothing at all to suggest Bipolar here. You may have a point however, in highlighting his likely next move to the OP. 'I am ill. I couldn't help it. I'll change'. Etc etc etc. Good call OP and good luck x
I think squibb has lots of good points about his personality. I also rarely post a response that says, in effect, LTB.
But I believe that all these issues are his responsibility to work out and improve. Sometimes dynamics in a relationship are such that boundaries of personal responsibility are very clear and he could rise to the challenge and take responsibility and they could work together to get stronger as a unit.
However, I think it's clear that this relationship does not have the right dynamics for this. In fact it sounds to me like there may not be a relationship on earth that could prompt this man to take responsibility for his own life and happiness.
They have tried couples counselling not once, but twice. I honestly don't think you have anything to reproach yourself with OP.
Women, eat shit (to keep your relationship, at any cost to yourself)
It's not your responsibility to fix him, op, and you must resist any pressure to do so......from him and from other influences that will conspire to keep you controlled by this awful man
He is just one man....not one of them are worth compromising yourself for
Even if your husband is unwell with depression or even bi polar, that is not a reason to stay with him.
Your h sounds very familiar to me. Many moons ago I was in a relationship with an ex who was in counselling for some time. He too was self employed, thought of himself as this wonderful, frustrated creative type who was so deeply unhappy because of what others had done to him. 18 years later not much has changed because he enjoys wallowing in his woe and blaming everyone else for his refusal to take any real responsibility for his own happiness.
My advice? Run, run like the wind. Maintain civil contact for the sake of your dd but don't expect too much on that front.
I do understand that not all men are good at heart, and it would certainly be convenient if people could just do whatever they wanted on a whim and just blame some diagnoses. It is not a woman's responsibility to fix her man but I do think that supporting him while he got help to fix himself is a good thing to be involved in.
If a person gets cancer we expect their partner to be there while they get cancer treatment.
If a person suffers some physical trauma we expect their partner to be their while they get rehabilitation.
If a person gets mentally ill, even just a little bit, well that's probably their own fault, it's just who they are and they are probably best left on their own?
Support is not the same thing as pity, and people shouldn't stay together purely out of guilt. I think the OP has good reason to be unhappy with the situation, and a lot of the fixing has to come from the partner that's for sure. It's not a responsibility, it's something to do out of compassion.
If a cancer patient, someone suffering from physical trauma or someone with a mental illness was being foul to their partner then the partner is under no obligation to stick around. 'Compassion' is so often dished out to women as their duty when it's just a smoke-screen for 'put up and shut up'.
I think you said squib a non professional opinioin with regard to OP's husband. You are at too far a point to be making anything other than a speculative remark regarding someone's diagnosis of bi polar or anything else. MH, when treated with medication and proper psychological input (not simply counselling) and all the correct support for the family not just the pateint is when it is possible to save a marriage.
If the person is unwilling to manage their condition, then it becomes their responsibility and no one elses.
I speak from the point of a bi polar sufferer where the above is in place. fucked if I know what we would do otherwise.
With respect Squibb, it sounds like the OP has supported this guy to the hilt, including going to counselling with him twice. Where do you draw the line? If she stays with him, it is 100 per cent guaranteed that in twenty years time, there will not be just one but two miserable buggers sat wondering where their respective lives went wrong. FWIW - it actually sounds like this guy doesn't even like the OP and is just staying with her for fear of being on his own and the fact that he can't bear the idea that she might move on from their depressing marriage to find some happiness in her life.
Squib you can't diagnose someone over the Internet.
It does sound as if you have your own "issues" to work out, and please stop projecting on everyone else.
Yes people with mental health issues need help just as people with Cancer do. However, sometimes their marital partner is not the best person to do that. Also if children are being damaged in the process (which seeing one parents "needs" take massive priority over the others does do), then they need to be removed from the harmful situation.
Also locally I have seen one woman who had mental issues, her husband stuck by her, other local people tried very hard to treat her compassionately. In the end it was only when her behaviour caused her to be arrested and sent to prison (after lots of warnings and other sentences) that she finally co-operated in her own treatment. She now seems a lot more healthy.
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