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Married men lie!(75 Posts)
Not sure if I will get any compassionate responses on here but having read so many wise posts on here from women who have given their support to others I thought I would give it a go. But totally expect to get flamed for this. So, 22 months ago I met a man on the Internet who told me when we first met that he had been divorced for 3 years. When I was at his flat it was obvious he lived there alone, it was a one bedroom flat with no sign of a woman being there. We saw each other for 6 months on an NSA basis, always during the week, at weekends he was always staying with friends or seeing his adult kids even tho they still lived with his wife. We had long conversations about why his marriage had ended ( grew apart, lack of sex etc) and I had no reason to disbelieve him
However over time I realised I was falling for him. Is not what you are supposed to do when it is just NSA and I never had the confidence to tell him. I had been made redundant and my plan was to go off travelling to India. He knew this from early on and even tho I had said, come out and have a holiday with me he had always said it wouldn't be possible.
So, I had been in India for 3 weeks and he emails me saying can he come and visit me for 3 weeks. Well, I was over the moon and said yes that would be lovely! So I book a flight back from where I was to the ashram he wante to visit, booked a lovely hotel and booked him a taxi from the airport. To do this, I needed his flight details to give to the taxi driver. He was procrastinating about this but eventually he sent them to me. But it was a completely different name from the name he had given me! His rationale for this was that a few years ago he had met a woman who had ended up being a bit of a stalker and as he had quite a high profile job, when he met women on this NSA website he had used a false name in case it happened again. But then he said, and there's more... What could that be I wondered? Obviously it had to be another woman, but I really didn't think it would be that he was still married as he had categorically told me he had been divorced for 3 years.
It took him a few days but eventually he admitted that yes he was actually still married!! But that it was loveless, sexless, that all she did was walk the dog and do crosswords and that being with me had brought him alive again. His rationale for not telling me was that if he had told me initially them I wouldn't have started seeing him in the first place ( true) and because he thought it was only ever going to be a short term fling that he didn't need to tell me and didn't realize that he would end up falling for me...! Furthermore he said he wanted to come out to India to see if there was any chance that we could be something more than NSA...
I didn't know what to do, I was shocked, wanted to believe him as I adored him but felt angry at being deceived and very wary and cautious. I had also booked all these arrangements to go to see him and he had already booked his flight. So, what to do? I decided I wanted to hear his reasons face to face and that even if it didn't work out, we would have a lovely time for a few weeks together and then that would be it.
So I met him, we had 3 amazing weeks together and by the end of it we both admitted we were in love with each other. I said to him, please work out your marital problems before considering a relationship with me but he said at the end of the holiday that he saw his future with me and wanted to end his marriage to be with me. A day after he got back to the UK he told me that he had told his wife which I was totally shocked at as I didn't think he would have the balls to do that!
But weirdly she ( according to him) seemed to accept it. She didn't want a divorce and she accepted the fact that her own behaviour had contributed to him having an affair...! So I carried on travelling round India for the next 2 and a half months, we texted, emailed or spoke every single day during that time and he constantly told me how much he loved/ missed me all the time. He said he wasn't having sex with his wife and one time he sent me a photo of him in his garden, taken by his wife as apparently she thought it would be nice for me to see a photo of him..!!! ( swear I am not making this up, it didn't make sense to me either...)
So, he had said that when I came back to the Uk I could stay in his flat (I had had to give up my place in order to travel for 4 months) and so that was what I was expecting when I came back. However the week before I was due back he started backtracking, saying that he didn't want to feel 'trapped' and that most weekends he wouldn't be there and that on x date I couldn't stay there as they would be going to the Chelses flower show and on that date they would be going to the proms/ jubilee etc ( this when apparently in the last 3 years his wife had only come up to his flat in town 3 times...). So huge red flags and was tempted to end it then and there but had nowhere else to go and it had only been a week before he was telling me how much he missed me etc...
So as soon as I saw him at the airport I knew things had changed. Just the look in his eyes, evasive, anxious, couldn't hold my gaze. Unfortunately I was really ill, I had already lost 2 stone in India through constant stomach bugs and was suffering with severe diorrhea, a bladder infection and dehydration and all I wanted to do was rest. Was really not up for conflict or a deep conversation ending in it finishing. ( also to add, the only other place I had to go and stay was with my abusive father who was now suffering with dementia, in a very deprived city in the north, a v depressing prospect)
So I stayed with him the next 6 weeks. The first 3 weeks he would go home at weekends, the last 3 weeks he wasn't there at all! Reasons were, diy needed doing, son was going to be home, builders round etc. So eventually I realised that he was a bloody cake eater, that while I had been in India, he and his wife had repaired their marriage and that although he didn't want to lose me ( and the sex) he was not going to leave his wife. So I left. Packed up my stuff day before he was due to come back, wrote him an email and went.
To my shame, 6 weeks later I went back to him after endless emails about how much he loved me, thought about me constantly, couldn't live without me etc. I had never have someone say those kinds of things to me before, felt flattered, wanted to believe him, even met his wife on 3 occasions to see if we could work it so we could both see him! ( weirdly she didn't resent me and didn't want me to stop seeing him as he had been so awful to be around when I had ended it before...)
There is so so much more I could write but I've written to much already. Suffice it to say I finally ended if for good ( after 9 attempts) on 1st Jan as I knew it was destrying me, as he would say one thing and do another, lied, told me he had been unfaithful throughout the whole of his 27 year marriage, never prioritise me, didn't come see me on my bday even tho I was only ten mins away... And so many other things...
So new years eve I was so miserable I decided I had to end it as I knew if I didn't I could be in exactly the same situation in a years time and I didn't want that. So I ended it, it was so hard, was like a bereavement as I did truly love him. Jan was awful but I do feel better than I was. Only thing is I feel this overwhelming anger towards him for lying and letting me down and for wasting so much of my life. I also feel really weak and stupid for believing him and terrible for adding to the betrayal of another woman, something I never ever thought I would do. I feel quite vengeful towards him as he has got away with everything and deeply hurt 2 women he claims to love.
I am writing this to maybe get other people's perspective on this and how I can get over this, but also to say that married men LIE!! And lie and lie. So to all you women who ( understandably) hate the ow, they will have been told so many lies about the wife and the marriage that they can be victims in all this too...
Nope. If a known fraudster came to me for money, I wouldn't give it to him and think he'd be any different with my hard-earned cash. How arrogant would that be if I thought he would make an exception for me? And stupid? If I invested money in him, knew he'd already lied to me about even his basic identity and knew he was stealing money from someone else at the same time, I certainly wouldn't play the victim card when I lost the dosh. Especially when I'd have taken the money without hesitation in the unlikely event that he'd made a profit.
To sum it up, this is just a thread about a woman's bitterness that a man wouldn't leave his wife for her - nothing more and nothing less. If he'd dumped his wife, there would have been no upset from her at all - and no revisionist conscience about lying.
I think the lesson to be learned from this is when someone says NSA (as the MM did in this case) you need to listen because they mean it.
If you know you tend to fall for those with whom you have an ongoing sexual arrangement, you really do need to swerve those who tell you loud and clear that's not what they were looking for. For it's quite likely you will be shat on from a great height at some point, whatever the underlying domestics.
And generally, if you discover your partner is married, you must also realise they have a great capacity for lying, self-delusion and self-serving justification, and disregard for those to whom they should be (at a minimum) fair and kind. And then ask yourself if those are qualities you prize in a partner.
I think the lesson to be learned from this is that all people - even those who are seemingly lovely - are capable of dreadful behaviour. And all people - even those who are seemingly intelligent - are capable of a massive degree of self-delusion when emotions are involved.
It's why the head should play a big part in deciding the outcome of any romantic entanglements.
Decent people can do shitty things. Shitty people can do even worse. If there's any doubt whatsoever, the benefit should not be given.
It's a hard, hard lesson to learn for all involved.
Agree with Dahlen's post.
That old shite about sexless marriage/together for the kids bull .... I really can't believe women fall for it!
It's frequently true though. One only has to read this Relationships board to see many wives describing their marriages exactly like this. "We haven't had sex for 7 years but I can't possibly leave because of the children". Obviously, it may well be a big fat whopper and potential OW should assume it is a lie (and not get involved either way), but I'm always baffled by people asserting that it's always nonsense.
OP, sorry you've learned some of these lessons the hard way.
exactly, cinnamon! it often IS the case that there is no sex in marriage and both patners just roll with it, whether it's for kids or for the lifestyle.
Leaven I happen to know such women, so there is no point of you getting all het up, I obviously never said ALL wives of wealthy men are like this. It's not only about money per se - sorry can't look at previous page to get the poster's name - a woman can do well financially in divorce but in these cases it's often the preferrance for the social lifestyle and status that goes with a marriage, antiquated but strangely true. Not all women aer feminists, whether they also have own job or not. Many threads on here say how divorced women are often excluded socially, and of course it's harder to be a single parent, so if she gets on with her H well enough, but lost or never had a big interest in sex, then why not live for the sake of family. Not all people have sex high on agenda, she may think that of other men too. Again, how many theads go on about no interest in sex?
This was never pointed out by me as a FAULT of the wife either, if this suits the couple, it's up to them to have 'open' relationship. Wife has put up with all his other affairs, so what does that say? Only when OP nearly pushed her H towards leaving as he got very infatuated (India trip, declarations), only THEN wife started making changes as now her marriage got threatened... but if the affair was casual, they'd probably just carried on as before. I'm not judging anyone at all as it has started on the NSA terms, they all have a right to do what they like, BUT in this case OP was lied to and never knew that the man was 'a known fraudster' as you put it, Leaven, until she got emotionally involved. I think he is the major immoral shit in this situation, not either of the women. I think OP does deserve compassion.
Meh, it's amazing that some posters are projecting their own belittling views of women on to this man's wife. No-one said she'd known he'd been repeatedly unfaithful to her. All we know is that she knew about this affair. No-one said she was a kept woman who traded the posh lifestyle for a faithful husband either. OW project their own stereotypes onto wives and are therefore completely blindsided when it turns out that these allegedly asexual dependent women are still preferred over them. Women should just stop competing with one another for horrible, lying men. It's just as sickening to read about a woman taking any blame for her husband's shittiness, losing weight and competing with a twit of an OW, as it is to read OW blaming everyone but themselves for the fact they lost out and weren't perceived to be good enough by a louse of a man.
Actually she DID know about his previous affairs, why she stayed with him, I don't know. I asked her why she hadn't asked him to leave when she found out about me and she simply said, I didn't want to. She didn't want me to end it with him, she was ok with the sex ( in fact at one point she said she wanted to watch and maybe even join in...). It was the emotional side of things she couldn't handle.
Fwiw, when I went to stay at their house, I apologised to her for my part in things. She actually said that she didn't blame me and said that he had made victims of us both..! And yes, what happened DID strengthen their marriage, I genuinely hope they are happy but I know he will be unfaithful to her again ( I once asked him if he wasn't with me, would he be faithful to his wife? He said no).
There were some very hard lessons for me in there, how do you ever know when someone is telling you the truth..?
I don't believe you. People who like liars are often liars themselves.
You overlooked all the lies when you thought he'd dump his wife for you.
You're only sore now because he didn't. Get over it.
and the next time someone lies to you, dump him.
how do you ever know when someone is telling you the truth..?
You don't, you have to trust people.
But there are some things to look for.
If you do look for them.
It's possible that you were too blind to look for those early signs, or chose to ignore them.
But the things is that the first lies should be red flags.
Leaven, I don't want to get in a fight with you, I don't feel good about it at all but I'm not lying!! It didn't make any sense to me either. I know it's a bizarre situation to be seeing someone when the wife knows and to have met her but it did happen and was distressing and confusing for me too. She didn't want me to end it as she didn't want to deal with him being an emotional wreck as he was when I ended it in the summer. He said in front of both of us that he loved and wanted us both. She felt she couldn't leave, he said he couldn't leave as it would be financially ruinous for him and that his ( grown up) kids would hate him.
And to correct a few wrong assumptions, I'm not young, only 2 years younger than his wife, I'm not money minded, I was working for a charity and yes I do feel remorse.
Leavenheath actually I'd disagree with you on that. IME people who lie are completely outraged when someone dares to lie to them back.
There are some fairly consistent clues when men like this lie
1) their lips are moving
2) they come out with the sad, tired cliches "my wife doesn't understand me" " we don't have sex" "she's with me just for the lifestyle"
3) they make pronouncements of undying love very quickly, are ridiculously "romantic" and make grand gestures designed to get you to STFU about all the other niggles you have
4) they denigrate the wife/exW/exGF etc
5) they push you to move on certain "stages" in a relationship before you have time to realise they are talking shit
6) they have mysterious "other commitments" at weekends that you are not allowed to share, they make excuses and break promises regularly
7) they are secretive, and you never quite know what they are thinking/doing when not with you
I could go on and on. If you choose to overlook any of these, it is likely you are being taken for a ride. It's all a choice, every single step of the way. Blaming "romantic love blinded me" is just a copout for your own stupidity. You would be best to acknowledge that and take some proper notice of red flags in the future.
I think that the fact you met on a NSA website was a MASSIVE red flag that he wasn't to be trusted.
I've done LOADS of stupid things in my time, but I wouldn't be convincing that the fall out was for the greater good.
I find the whole thing very strange. Next time run. Run to the hills as fast as you can.
And stay away from those dodgy websites.
As i see it it was your choice to be with him.
1) you stayed with him when you found out he was married
2) NSA and you feel for him
3) He lied about his name and you staied with him
4) You meet his wife? Why? You wanted more and would never get it.
You could have ended it at any time but you didnt.
I dont think it matters who lies to you as long as you make the right dession for you.
Take responsability for your part and get counciling to learn what love is and to find out why you let yourself get used.
The wife has her own issues and its none of your business, leave them to it and learn from this and move on.
Just to add my twopence worth.
My ex's OW swallowed the most obvious lies, "our marriage has been over for years, she's 'not well'" etc ad infinitum. TBH I don't think he needed to lie because she wanted him and was determined to have him.
It was to me he admitted he'd lied to her, after I divorced him. he had to admit it to her in the end because it all massively backfired on him.
They're still together. He's still a liar. I'm over the marriage I didn't know he wanted out of and, yes, I am WELL (no thanks to him).
You won't make THAT mistake again, will you OP?
Anyfucker - your list of lies or thongs liars do or say, it made me smile, which I guess it wasn't intended to, but it did , and thank you for that.
My ex OM did none of those things , and still I ended up in an unholy mess , but seeing my way clear ....married men do lie, and you know what ladies so to married women, and unmarried men and unmarried women , and everything in between, if somebody wants to manipulate you they will, and some of us are a little bit vulnerable , for our own reasons and fall for it....I will say again, in defence of myself the OPster and all other other woman or men out there.....we are not necessarily stupid, bad, sluts, or any other choice words people want ot fling about, we are human beings with emotns, feelings and even if we have done terrible things we deserve some compassion when we can see that and are look g for support. I am not a Christian, but a bet some of you on here are..... A little forgiveness goes a long way, help and support, not belittle and denigrate
Oh iPad auto correct....that should be things not thongs liars do ...hope that made be laugh, a bit
Posy, I did say my list wasn't exhaustive and I skewed it towards OP's situation, since this thread is about her and not you
However, I don't agree with words like slut being bandied about and have never done that on this thread nor any other.
My main vitriol is reserved for the slimy, lying men who behave like this but I do think women should take some responsibility for their own actions when they wilfully and knowingly choose to overlook red flags in the face of overwhelming evidence that the said bloke is a cock, nothing more/nothing less.
I'm sorry OP, this must be very difficult. In fact, difficult for both women - you and the wife.
I would calm yourself with the thought that you were wanted, desired and "loved" by this man (to the extent that he knows how to love, which obviously isn't much,) and you will be again by other men in the future.
Arm yourself with this experience for when you become a wife in the future - hopefully it is the only time it will ever happen to you.
Thank to to everyone who has replied after reading my long and sorry take. Especially those who have been both kind and wise. I understand the hostility and judgement it has engendered, I would have probably felt the same before I ended up in this situation. It has definitely made me more conscious of red flags and have explored this in depth in my counselling with Relate the past few months. I am going to stay single for a good long while until I feel I have resolved my self esteem issues and why I fell for a man like this. So why did I write this post? Last night I just felt so much hatred for the mm that I was tempted to email him and tell him how I was feeling. But I didn't and wrote on here instead. Just to get it out of my system and in the hope that I would maybe get some good advice, and a good kick up the arse. Which I think I got...sorry if I have offended anyone, I have read many posts on here about the pain women have gone through when their husbands have been unfaithful and hate the fact that I became one of those despised 'ows'.
There's always been support for any poster who takes responsibility for her own stupidity and cruelty, but OPs doing the 'poor little victim me' act get short shrift and rightly so, especially when they would have been only too happy to shaft a man's wife and overlook lies when they were to their benefit. It's the way they try to reduce the men's wives as being inferior beings to them that really sticks in my craw too. Obviously it's complete jealousy especially when these loser blokes choose their wives over them but even then they can't accept it's for reasons other than money, status or kids. They never seem to accept that these men really prefer their wives or that they personally didn't have enough about them to make a man leave.
Nothing has changed my mind that this is just a thread from a woman who's bitter that she lost out to a wife and wants to blame everyone but herself for the mess she's in.
I'm sure I can't be the only one who also hopes that the wife comes to her senses and dumps this loser from a great height.
But he'll find some other idiot who wants to compete with his wife, because as long as women believe absolute rubbish about eachother and fight over these terrible prizes, men will continue to get away with it.
Quite Leavenheath. Strange how these women find MN to unburden themselves.
Ignore the miserable commenters. We all live in glass houses, we've all done dubious things, we're all hurt others or been inconsiderate. So don't listen to them telling you you're scum for being an 'other women'.
Yes it is very naughty being involved with someone who has a partner, but it wasn't you who made the marriage vows to him, yes you were disrespectful to her and that was mean but again her happiness is not your responsibility.
I've only been the 'other woman' with a guy when I was a teenager and so was he (they weren't married obviously) and I didn't know to start with either, and when you do know you make up all sorts of rules in your head, well it's okay as long as I don't kiss him etc. thing is you'd already done this by the time you found out, you were already the terrible wretched other woman by that point so you probably didn't see any moral gain in stopping and that's understandable quite often people think 'well i'm already the bad guy'. The only way people can atone for sins is to confess and be honest and face the consequences, the wife was told, she decided to stay, she tried to reconcile with you. Those are her decisions. He's probably done this before and he would have done this without you.
As much as we all believe equality is a good thing we all like to believe we're better than other people, when a man says she is this but you're so much better it can make you feel good. Now you have learnt when a man says this there's usually more to it. For example loads of guys tell you sob stories about 'my wife won't sleep with me anymore' and you have to think deeper, why won't she? Is it likely she's gone off all forms of sex? No. She's gone off sex with HIM not all together. He is no longer providing her with fulfillment. If a wife got fat or stopped maintaining herself think deeper, she is perhaps busy looking after his children, if he was more supportive he'd maybe take gym classes with her. Think about the deeper implications. Yes maybe his wife secretly is a complete jerk! If that's the case why is he still with her? Do you want a man who is unable to be honest and say hey I don't want to be in this marriage, i'd prefer to stay unhappy? No because if you did snag him he'd never tell you when things were up either never try and compromise or work through things and communication is essential.
I don't think you're a villian I just think you thought you'd be different, sometimes a man will leave his wife (you never want him to leave her FOR you, he should leave her because the marriage wasn't working in itself) and then meet another woman. If you'd really wanted that you should say 'How dare you lie to me and to your wife. Don't speak to me again unless you've grown the honesty to leave a marriage you apparently don't want a part in' and if he doesn't eventually leave then fine but don't rush into anything with him.
Good luck in the future, not all men lie but sometimes we can transfer our experiences onto future people. Remember everyone deserves your initial trust until they break it. The one thing you should never put up with and make clear you don't is lying, because anything else can be sorted out expect that. I'd much rather a partner told me they were worried they'd cheat or had cheated than lie because yes I might still leave them but at least they didn't take the freedom of choice from me.
Destiny Your pain comes through in your posts. I think you have learned a hard lesson; what strikes me is that your innate loneliness kept you with this man, even though your self-esteem was being shattered. In situations like that it can hard to get out of an unhealthy relationship as you are getting crumbs of affection, just enough to keep you going. I can see from your last post that you are going to work on your own issues. When you do, you will become a stronger person and will attract healthy people and relationships. Good luck!
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