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Parents hinting that you should provide for them financially

(26 Posts)
Bedtime1 Fri 12-Apr-13 17:03:47

This one is about my mum but my dad often hints at this too.

Over the years mum has run up lots of debts, been free of the debts, then done it all over again.

I went out with her last night and she said she's been checking her credit file. She said she's checked hers and her currents debts/ defaults etc should be off in 3 years. Apparantley they stay on for 6. Then she said she has checked what mortgage she would be able to get if she lived on her own ( she has a partner but they don't get along) she said on her own shed get 46k with her partner shed get 120k. This is based on a repayment mortgage over 10 years. Based on hr retiring. The thing is she has a nice cottage and she has one other property which is rented out but they have both lost equity. The buy to let if she sold now would only break even with noting left. The house that she lives in would have a bit of equity maybe 20k.
She lives in a nice area but within that area she wants to live in a nicer part, she then went on to say could I invest in a property for her, which she had in mind I pay some deposit and she does then shed pay the repayment mortgage and then we would have a share in equity when it gets sold.
The problem I can see with her idea is that she wouldn't want to move so be there maybe 30 years. She doesn't get on with hr partner so if they split up she wouldn't be able to pay the mortgage so who then would? My my mum has narcisttic traits.

Thing is we are doing okay as a couple my husband and I but she is also doing okay. Eg I don't see she's struggling as she has two nice properties in nice areas. She's trying to make out it would be an investment but how is it if she's living in the investment and then we would see none of our initial investment for years and years. If it was an investment you'd rent it out and get some income or you wouldn't tie up your money for 30 years. Eg she knows if she lived in the house you wouldn't ever be able to sell it.

Anyway I feel a bit peeved that she's asking me for money to buy into a home for her, dressing it up as an investment when she has her own homes etc. do you think this is cheeky? I've posted on here before about my parents.

What I'm trying to say is. Is she trying to guilt trip me? You see we are doing better financially. Am I right in thinking its cheeky. I mean she's my parent. If I did want to help my family in the future. ( I mean it's not like she needs any help with having two nice properties) then shouldn't that be my choice to think that not told too and also made to feel bad. Also made to feel bad because I'm doing okay. I mean my mum has had lots of money in the past. Both have good jobs and she lives in nice areas but then she always makes out that she's hard done by.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Fri 12-Apr-13 17:09:26

Say "no thank you, I don't want to invest further in property as an asset class."

AttilaTheMeerkat Fri 12-Apr-13 17:11:45

Ah, the narcissist and money. Avoid such entanglements at all costs unless you want a financial mess, also I'd be looking further at the current amount of contact with such a person.

Money stands for love in the narcissist's emotional vocabulary. Having been deprived of love early on in his childhood, the narcissist constantly seeks for love substitutes. To him, money is THE love substitute. All the qualities of the narcissist are manifest in his relationship with money, and in his attitude towards it. Due to his sense of entitlement - he feels that he is entitled to other people's money. His grandiosity leads him to believe that he should have, or does have more money than he actually has. This leads to reckless spending, to pathological gambling, to substance abuse, or to compulsive shopping. Their magical thinking leads narcissists to irresponsible and short-sighted behaviour, the results of which they believe themselves to be immune from. So, they descend to debt, they commit financial crimes, they hassle people, including their closest relatives. Their fantasies lead them to believe in financial (fabricated) "facts" (achievements) - incommensurate with their talents, qualifications, jobs, and resources. They pretend to be richer than they are, or capable of becoming rich, if they so resolve. They have a love-hate ambivalent relationship with money. They are mean, stingy, and calculating with their own money - and spendthrift with OPM (other people's money). They live lavishly, well above their means. The often go bankrupt and ruin their businesses. Reality very rarely matches their grandiose fantasies. Nowhere is the grandiosity gap more evident than where money is involved.

Bedtime1 Fri 12-Apr-13 17:31:39

Thanks for replies. Thing is I really can't see how she was deprived of love as a child. Her dad left when she was 6 months old but then she will never have known any love from him. She has a brother who is much older and he was like a dad substitute. She always told me how he did " everything for her" bought her things, always there and she lived with her mum and her mum never remarried and from what I remember of my grandma she did everything for my mum. Helped look after us when mum was at work, always there to help. I don't get how she was deprived of love when everyone did everything for her. Her brother though being a lot older did leave home and marry etc as he was so much older, but I think he always helped her and was in regular contact with her and my grandma.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Fri 12-Apr-13 17:33:37

Whether she was deprived of love or not, she's painting this as an investment opportunity and you can decline, just as you could if she'd told you about a great Bank of Cyprus account...

AttilaTheMeerkat Fri 12-Apr-13 17:34:33

"Everyone did everything for her". That's exactly it, the rot also started when her Dad left. Emotionally they did nothing for her.

These people who remained went onto make her the centre of their emotional universe. You wrote earlier she has narc traits; was not at all surprised to read that.

MintyyAeroEgg Fri 12-Apr-13 17:35:18

I find your op really hard to understand ... but how old is your Mum? Does she work? How old are you?

Dh and I occasionally give his parents a bit of money but they are retired, live on state pension, still rent (ie. don't own a property) and we are comfortably off. It is not an expectation and we just sometimes send them some to cover things like new washing machine, or costly car service.

But I suspect your circumstances with your Mum are nothing like this.

OhLori Fri 12-Apr-13 17:39:47

Don't worry about her childhood. She seems to be doing fine financially and is making her own choices now. I think when she raises these kinds of ideas/questions/suggestions/narratives, the best thing is to let her talk on (or leave/change the subject if its annoying) and remain as completely detached as possible, as if you are watching a home movie. And if you are pressurised for a response, agree with Doctrine, just turn your nose up and say no thanks, its not for you, and do not discuss further!

Bedtime1 Fri 12-Apr-13 17:41:18

Oh yes she has always lived lavishly. Even though she couldn't always afford too. She always tells me the price of things when she has bought me a birthday gift.

In her time mum had borrowed money or asked to borrow it off all around her. Many have given her it. My aunt didn't and she fell out then. The thing is she often doesn't pay it back or takes ages to do it. She doesn't keep to what she said eg if she said she would pay them £50 a month she doesn't always keep to it. Or seems to take on the attitude and assess that " they don't need it" so then doesnt pay it back or takes ages or just pays a bit.

We had to move to a council house when we were kids, previously we had lived in a nice house and area. She did a 4 year course at uni and decided she didn't want to do it in last few months of course , she run up debts as dad had supported all family financially whilst she did her course. He does okay but his job doesn't pay loads. So after this we had to move to the council house.

Bedtime1 Fri 12-Apr-13 17:43:04

My mum is 53. I am 30.

Bedtime1 Fri 12-Apr-13 17:45:06

That's the thing minty. I get the impression she expects all of this, even though she has 2 properties, 2 good jobs

MintyyAeroEgg Fri 12-Apr-13 17:49:03

Omg! I am 50 and my dh is 48. We consider ourselves to be at our prime earnings-wise.

I could understand supporting a pensioner financially but not a blooming 53 year old shock.

Bedtime1 Fri 12-Apr-13 17:51:55

My mum works and so does her partner. She's gone round the houses a lot because she kept giving up jobs or not working for a while and then her partner just worked then going back to work. She started up her own business at one point then gave it up as she didn't like working from home. She's managed to get herself back on 22k. Her partners on about 35k and also he does private work in evenings, perhaps another 5- 10k a year. She has one buy to let and the one she lives in.

Bedtime1 Fri 12-Apr-13 17:55:28

Minty - I understand that too. I can imagine helping someone struggling or somebody old. I mean if she was frail. I would help with shopping, practical needs, anything she needs like that and if I had money to give then anything that would help her a bit money wise that I could afford.

Bedtime1 Fri 12-Apr-13 17:57:43

She also has debts, but even that figures is a bit vague. She changes it.

Kat101 Fri 12-Apr-13 18:05:18

I think you have to be careful - if the credit agencies link you together financially, her adverse rating could affect your good rating. I'm not sure exactly how this works but it could be important.

It sounds like a bad idea. You have much to lose (what if prices don't rise, what if you need the money back sooner). Nightmare. Sounds like she has little to lose. A Very Bad Move.

SugarPasteGreyhound Fri 12-Apr-13 20:04:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DeckSwabber Fri 12-Apr-13 20:35:46

I think her ambivalence about her partner says it all.

My guess is that she doesn't want to lose her standard of living so this is a plan to achieve separation without having to give any ground herself. However, you could easily find yourself stuck with half the cost of house repairs and improvements while having no say in when to sell or even whether the 'investment' is being properly maintained. You will be at her mercy and at 53 she could live another 30 - 50 years!

Sorry you are in this situation but don't feel bad about saying no.

jollygoose Fri 12-Apr-13 20:44:48

I am same ageas your mum, simila finances and I would never dream of compromising my dc this way. Dont do it

tb Fri 12-Apr-13 23:32:50

If I've understood correctly, your mum has had debt problems in the past. With her dodgy credit past, she wants you to put down a deposit on a third property, for which she is saying she will pay the mortgage. Honest dd, sure I will.

I'd bet a pound to a penny, that if you cough up the deposit, and she gets the property, either she will be on the 'earole for "dd, could you pay the mortgage, just this month/once things are a bit tight?" or, she will stop paying, not tell, the whole thing will go tits up, repossession order, and you can kiss goodbye to your deposit. Next chapter will start with her needing another wodge of your and your dh's hard-earned cash/credit rating for another lost good cause - her.

I think I'd run screaming from this one. We sold our house to help my 'd'm out. When she failed to get her sticky mits on our £50k, despite us paying all her bills, all her maintenance - including building work she asked for in our name, she stopped us using the washing machine at weekends - we were living with her, to help her out. Last year she died, left me not a single thing my father promised me, sold anything I'd left at 'home' at auction etc etc.

RUN for the hills, and distance yourself. It will only get worse - I've got a 2-inch white streak and a buggered thyroid from that 6 months 21 years ago. Take heed, and take care of yourself and your family - everyone else is just a relation.

tb Fri 12-Apr-13 23:34:18

Alternatively, read the narc thread - it's harrowing, but educational.

tribpot Fri 12-Apr-13 23:41:09

Quite, tb - I was going to say the same thing. As a tenant she would never pass a credit check - way too much risk for you as a landlord. On top of which, you can hardly evict your own mother!

Even in less dysfunctional circumstances I wouldn't recommend it. We are tied into MIL's house in this same way - DH owns half of it, but we can't liberate the money because she and her husband live in it. That's not the end of the world, but there has very much been an assumption that DH will just make over his half to his mother when her husband dies (he is extremely elderly) - apparently on the grounds 'he won't need the money' then either. Errr, he's extremely ill and in a wheelchair, he has literally no earning capacity. But this does not seem to have occurred.

It was okay when he was earning as it was an amount he could effectively write off for c. 30 or 40 years if need be. But circumstances change.

Bedtime1 Sat 13-Apr-13 03:16:45

No she wants me to put in some of the deposit. She never said how much and I think she would sell the house she lives in now and put some deposit in. I think she then wants to pay mortgage but then like others have said presumably live in it forever so could be many years maybe 30, then she says I could have a share in the equity. I would never evict my own mother etc so then that Would be What I'd be tied to . Plus she hasn't said but I think she would then plan to split up with her partner as she doesn't get on with him. Then she probably would not be able to pay the mortgage on her own so then would probably expect me to. Also she always creates drama and needs attention so I suspect I would get entangled with her because she would make me feel bad etc. maybe it's another way to have a hold over me. She seems like a narc to me so possibly this too.

Tb - she does create drama, therefore I suspect there would be like you say lots of trying to make me feel bad.
Sorry to hear what your mum did. It's awful and I just can't get my head round this type of behaviour. Can't believe you helped her then she just took advantage of your kindness and did the dirty. Do they not feel any remorse?
Have you been poorly with it? I have been stressed for many years with my mums behaviour. Mum though is worse as she is overbearing and wants to be involved in every aspect of your life.

Tribpot - the cheek of them. It is wrong on so many levels.

Bogeyface Sat 13-Apr-13 03:35:11

You say she is dropping hints? The good thing about hints is that you can safely ignore them. However, when she asks outright you will have to say no and then deal with the outburst of emotional bullshit and blackmail that will follow.

Take some of the money she wants for the deposit and get yourself into counselling in order to deal with her demands on you and your fear of her disapproval if you say not to her.

HermioneHatesHoovering Sat 13-Apr-13 05:09:04

Why would you even be considering this at all? She has 2 perfectly good houses!!!

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