XP saying horrible things to DS. How should I handle this?

[flippinada]

That's it, in a nutshell.

To give you some brief background, I split with his Dad nearly 8 years ago. DS coming up for 9. He was/is an emotionally abusive bully and, I suspect, is a Narc.

Despite being vile to me he has always been a decent Dad to DS. Involved although pays minimal maintenance, not much I can do about that unfortunately (long, long story).

Several years I had to take him to court to get full time residence of DS.

Now, I thought we had worked hard to put this behind us and forge a decent parenting relationship - not friendly but civil and acting in DS best interests. He's since married and DS has a little brother.

However XP just cannot seem to stop it with the inappropriate and downright nasty comments. He's long since realised I won't rise to his bait so I think he's trying to get at me through DS. It's quite hard to explain; he is never openly unpleasant and can be perfectly lovely to your face while he is planning to stab you in the back.

Anyway, here's last nights little gem, far from an isolated incident unfortunately - apparently, according to his Dad I don't like to spend time with DS and the reason for this is because DS is exactly the same as his Dad so I don't like him very much !

It was obviously bothering him so I gave him a cuddle, reassured him that wasn't true and that he was his own, very special person and I loved him to bits. Then we had another cuddle, chatted about the Easter Hols and all the fun things we have planned and he went to bed happily.

Previous delightful comments have included "Mummy is trying to take all my money" (fat chance) and "Mummy isn't your proper family, the are your real family"

DS doesn't want to stop seeing his Dad as he loves him to bits. What to do?

[Hissy]

google traumatic bonding and see what the 'love him to bits' stuff actually is.

He's abusing you through his son. your DS is collateral damage. Lessen contact, and spend some proper healthy time with him, to counter the poison your ex0has heaped.

[flippinada]

I already do spend a lot of time doing nice stuff with DS, although I appreciate this is not clear from my post.

I haven't heard of traumatic bonding, but will google it.

[flippinada]

I've re-read your comment a few timesHissy about spending "proper healthy time with him".

Perhaps I'm misreading, and if so I apologise, but this feels like a dig - why do you think I'm not doing this already?

[Dahlen]

How do you communicate with your X? Do you use email at all? Hopefully you do.

What you do is email him to ask him to stop and explain why. Put in the quotes you've given us, explain how they've upset your DS and why it is it makes your DS feel insecure.

Tell him that surely enough time has passed now that any animosity between the two of you is no longer understandable and counterproductive to the emotional wellbeing of your son. You will interpret any further slights as a deliberate attempt to get at you through your son since there is no way that any reasonable person could interpret the phrases you've mentioned as being in any way reassuring to your son.

Then tell him to STOP (and make sure you use the word stop).

See what happens. THere may be fall out, or adopting a tough line may put an end to it. If there is fall out, however, you have a record of what's been going on. Constantly bad-mouthing a parent is a form of abuse and is considered as such by the NSPCC, SS and CAFCASS (though the severity can vary enormously of course).

FWIW, I think the way you've handled it with your DS so far is exemplary. The only thing that needs to change is the fact that you're reacting to it - get proactive and stamp it out.

The only way to deal with bullies is to hit them hard.

[flippinada]

Thanks Dahlen. I always take great care not to bad mouth his Dad. You'd think after 8 years it would be getting a bit old but no...when he's said stuff before my response is "Well, Daddy is wrong about that" or "Daddy says silly things sometimes".

I always, always communicate with him in writing (email or text) for anything at all so he can't twist things. I have pulled him up on this sort of thing before and the pattern seems to be that he stops for a while and then something triggers it off again. It will probably have been something quite innocuous like DS saying he was missing me or talking about something we have enjoyed together.

Email sounds a good idea.

DS doesn't seem traumatised, more like "why is he saying these things that aren't true?"

I did look up traumatic bonding but the resources I've found seem to be mainly about sexual abuse which thankfully doesn't apply in this case.

[whitepaper]

i don't agree with the traumatic bonding thing. Your son loves his Dad- end of. Instead google parental alienation and hostile aggressive parenting. Sounds like your ex is using some of the techniques- though at a fairly low level compared with what some parents do. There are things you can do to help- you need to be well informed as its a tricky one to deal with. At best your son will be having his self-esteem damaged, at worst- if it really gets out of hand - your relationship could be destroyed. Divorce poison is the book to go for (also recommended by Resolution in their book on parenting apart).

[ScottyDoc]

OP I haven't got much time to post but all I will tell you, and please trust me and listen carefully, my own father did this repeatedly to me and my siblings when my mother left him. He poisoned us against her and for a while it worked with me, my other siblings not so much. But actually as the months and years went on and I rebuilt my relationship with my mum (who I adore) it all became crystal clear the amount of nasty lies he had fed to us all, the horrible comments thrown in every sentence and the bitter hatred he had for her to the point he manipulated friends and family against her. He was and still is very clever like that.

Anyway, his nastiness and subtle aggressiveness towards my mum is a running joke between me and my siblings now , and he still can't help himself from making nasty comments about her . Your ds will see past the lies and deceit just like we all did, and although he may remain loyal and friendly to his father, believe me when I say he will judge him privately and it won't be good. The truth always comes out .

[flippinada]

Thanks whitepaper, I will definitely look out for that book.

I certainly think XP is infuriated that DS loves me and doesn't like it.

[flippinada]

Scotty thank you for sharing that, I appreciate it.

How awful you had to deal with all that though, and your poor mum.

[izzyizin]

As a precautionary measure I would suggest you get this documented by your ds's school. Make an appointment with his head or class teacher, explain what his df is saying to him, expresss your concern this may be unsettling him, and ask them to talk with you to your ds to reassure him that, he is, indeed, his very own special person who you love to spend time with as you not only 'love him to bits', you absolutely adore him and he's the light of your life.

As for the twunt, tell him that if he continues to destablise ds by making disparaging and untrue remarks about you, you'll be required to seek psychological input in the form of counselling or play therapy for ds to counteract the unnecessary emotional harm he's doing to him.

[flippinada]

That's a good idea izzy thank you. I'll make an appointment to speak to DS' teacher. The school are already aware of XP, I spoke to them before DS started and explained the situation with XP and they've been very supportive.

What I'm going to do is email him (again) and explain (again) that DS finds this upsetting and he is not to do it.

One good thing though, thinking about it, I'm so glad DS feels able to tell me these things. I always reassure him that he can tell me anything.

[whitepaper]

The book Parenting Apart also has a very good section called ''when children hear bad things about one of their parents'. My copy came initially from the library now i have my own. It says:
don't retaliate or try to set the record straight but neither ignore it or roll over when your DC repeat things to you that are nasty or very one sided. Its ok to say things like "i don't agree with what dad has said" or "when parents split up they usually don't see things the same way. you don't ever have to decide who's right or wrong"

they say to stay focused on the child's feelings so :"how do you feel about what dad said?"
"what do you think about the things dad is saying about me?"
There's an anecdote in the book about a 5 year old who tells her mum that Grandma said she (the mother) was ugly to which her mum says "i wonder why grandma would say that" , the immediate reply from the little girl was "i think its because she doesn't like you mummy"

its about getting them to work things out for themselves- which they usually can do - unless the campaign the alienating parent is conducting is particularly bad. and yes it often does backfire very very badly on the person doing the bad mouthing.

also try to help him process what his dad is saying e.g " sounds like dad was feeling very angry. sometimes when divorce happens adults get angry and say things to hurt each other".

whatever you do though read up on it.

[whitepaper]

those examples are straight from the book, tweak them to your situation. Good luck with it . Its such a terribly bad thing to do to a child. Bad mouthing one parent is basically the same as attacking the child , it emotional cruelty.

[flippinada]

I have already bought Divorce Poison on my kindle (hooray for kindle) and am looking at it now in between posts on here. I'll look up Parenting Apart too.

I get the allowing them to work things out for themselves, that sounds like it would be helpful for DS. He's very bright and picks things up quickly.

[flippinada]

It is cruel whitepaper but then that's my XP all over. He seems to enjoy causing distress. If he carries on doing this I think it will backfire on him big time.

[ScottyDoc]

It has backfired on my dad big time, just to confirm again. What the previous poster mentioned about asking a child why they think someone says nasty things is a fantastic idea. It really would make them think and come to their own conclusion.

You and your ds are obviously close with a brilliant relationship, your job now is to stay absolutely calm and controlled when ds relates any nasty comments to you. I can assure you if you do this, he will see your ex as someone who, although he loves him, is quite strange and always says negative things about mummy. That doesn't bode well for when he grows up believe me. I can say hand on heart, although me and my siblings have a civil relationship with our dad, we neither respect him or care for his horrible bigoted views or comments. Other people outside the family have found out what he is like too so he has lost in every way possible.

[Hissy]

DC of abusers often form what appear to be solid and strong bonds with them. It's to please them, to try to ensure that they don't get what we get. It's self preservation basically.

He will undermine your relationship with your DC,m to hurt you.

He doesn't care how that affects his child, how taking them away from their mother may be bad for him.

Your child is as much a victim as you were. You can find other partners to take away the pain/erase the damage. It's not so easy when it's your parent.

[flippinada]

Scotty you comments are very reassuring, thank you - not to give the impression I'm complacent; it's good to see it from another pov. My main concern is to minimise upset for DS - I couldn't give a toss what XP thinks of me to be honest.

One thing that did give me a wry chuckle; apparently I have a very sad and lonely life with only the cat for company. My friends and family enjoyed that one. The cat is better company than he ever was anyway...!

[ScottyDoc]

Lol! Similar to what my dad says about mum... apparently she doesn't go out much either! Because of course, they know everything

It's a self comfort thing for narcissists and emotional abusers, they absolutely NEED to feel that the other person is beneath them, hence all the pathetic petulant behaviour they display.

Anyway, you just relax and enjoy your lovely ds, he sounds a delight and you have no reason to worry about the ex's bollocks in a million years. You will laugh heartily at it all a few years down the line with ds Xxx

[flippinada]

Thank you everyone for your comments, you've all been really helpful.

I'm very aware of XP's capacity for nastiness though.....I remember a quote from somewhere; the price of peace is eternal vigilance?

[flippinada]

Pressed send too soon...I meant to say, that sums up the best way to deal with him I think.