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Getting him to properly commit

(119 Posts)
lightsandshapes Fri 15-Mar-13 14:30:00

Advice please!

Short version is that I have 1ds who is a gorgeous 15 month old and dp also has 2 dds aged 22 and 23. Him and their mum never married. I was not on the scene anywhere near their break up. He says is was a young relationship, he got her pregnant on the 2nd date and he (apparently begrudgingly) stayed with her for 8 years. That's his version. We all get on well. They are lovely girls and are good with ds. Anyway my problem is dps inability to commit to anything! It took him 5 years to agree to having ds1. Now he is the apple of his eye. It will probably take another 5 years to agree to a dc2. He owns his small house outright. I pay monthly bills (half) and buy the majority of the food. So he does ok out of me. But he won't marry (reckons just a piece of paper) and is dragging his heels about putting me and ds in a will so that if he pre deceases me, me and ds will be provided for (and there will be stability for ds so we are not kicked out of the house and essentially on the streets). He is 47 and so older than me as I'm 36. I have invested in the house, spending four grand on a new bathroom, etc etc etc.

I know you might say I went in wit my eyes open, and I should have got this figured put before I moved in, but I was kind of blinded by lust and attraction. Now I feel I've left me and ds pretty vulnerable. I wish now I had followed the rules or something and had no sex before marriage, but he wouldn't have stayed around I reckon.

How can I get him to marry or at least write a will protecting ds in his family home while he grows up? My dp is all talk and no action over anything! Even to the point of taking about home improvements and chores but not doing them...

MysteriousHamster Sat 23-Mar-13 00:12:50

Babies are all different - you could have a second, do the exact same things, and they could turn out to be a complete opposite of your son. Obviously you care deeply for him but so do working mums and their kids turn out all right - honest guv.

You can't be sensitive about what people are say to you, and then turn around and essentially say nurseries definitely fuck you up. My son is in nursery three days a week and he loves it. He adores being home with mum and dad too, but there's things he's learnt from us that they couldn't teach and vice versa.

Anyway... your partner sounds like a man who won't change and doesn't care too much about what you want unless he wants it too. You can do better. Best of luck moving on, if you can.

lightsandshapes Fri 22-Mar-13 22:55:27

Fuckitthatl do..... Hehe you're right, it's not easily translated into the west..... You have a point. Like to think of myself as back to nature girl but yeh, communities here are a little different! I have followed the core ideas of cosleeping etc and he is such a happy, confident, joyful little boy that it must work on some level. This is all the more important as he had such a traumatic start to life, spent 10 days in an incubator etc.

But yeah, I'm sure we can be over prescriptive About our choices .

Catsndogs thanks for your posts, really helpful stuff to think about...

Hoopypoopy you're so right that logic doesn't always come into these things. I k we I wanted a ds with dp when I first met him 10 years ago..... Odd how these things transpire! It's the person you go for isn't it? Then later you think of all the 'practical stuff'.

lightsandshapes Fri 22-Mar-13 22:41:16

Hoopypoopy this sounds sooooo familiar x

PattyPenguin Fri 22-Mar-13 18:52:41

OP, I reckon you should enjoy your present lifestyle for the time being and be prepared to be on your own with DS eventually. With no house and just what the CSA says a man on part-time earnings should be paying for a child. (I'd guess this will be in about 3 or 4 years' time, as he left his daughter's mother when the eldest was 4 or 5. Has he ever had a relationship of more than 8 years' duration?)

CATSNDOGS Fri 22-Mar-13 17:52:01

OP, sorry for being another to lay it on thick about the financial side. You sound like an intelligent lady and I think you know about the money side already hence why you mentioned solicitors yourself.

i think you need to have a really serious chat about marriage.

I had a serious chat to my partner when I was pregnant and i let it lie for a while (we jointly owned our home before I was preg) and chatted again when our DC was about 6 months old. No pressure or ultimatum from me and he said he wanted to really marry me and wanted to spend the rest of his life. Id have loved it if he's proposed without a couple of chats and I think I would have eventually left if it wasn't going to happen but I could never truly know.

Hoopypoopy Fri 22-Mar-13 17:41:19

Putting the financials to one side, your question was how to get him to commit. You can't get him to do anything. But you can be clear and honest to him in what you want and get a response from him. Unfortunately if that isn't what you want to hear it will be tough in all sorts of ways. Get yourself prepared (lots of advice places for women or a GOOD CAB).

I couldn't live with the endless lack of commitment so I told mine I wanted to get married again (bear in mind he is still married tho seperated). He's playing the 'why is it important' card. I'm letting it lie for a week. But I'm not under your pressure. But is does just hurt your feelings and cloud your judgement unfortunately.

Helltotheno - thanks. don@t worry after 5 years on my own I really dont need a man's dirty knickers on the bathroom floor.....

CATSNDOGS Fri 22-Mar-13 17:26:03

all the above said by me, i feel for you, i really do. i can imagine the desire to have a child and your love for P sort of taking precedence over the legal issues that would have been in the background. Its a very hard place and you need to get deciding.

Fuckitthatlldo Fri 22-Mar-13 17:25:35

Bah - The Continuum Concept indeed. Op you're not a Yequana Indian and you don't live in the bloody rainforest. There is no interdependent community to help you either, more to the point.

You need to look honestly at your real life and either accept things the way they are or do something to change them.

As for Oliver James - wonder who was devoting all their time and energy to bringing up his children while he wrote about the evils of putting children into childcare hmm

There is more than one way to raise a child you know. As long as parents are reasonably consistent, loving, and supportive and the child receives a decent enough level of physical care, most kids turn out just fine.

I really do find this Western obsession with overly prescriptive child rearing practices peculiarly neurotic. Just feed 'em, clothe 'em, hug 'em and show an interest - that's good enough man!

CATSNDOGS Fri 22-Mar-13 17:13:29

God, the world is full of men who want it all (and women too) but wont be married. Its awful if you want it and he doesn't.

There is no such thing as a common law wife, if you split, you're likely entitled to a big fat nothing from the house! The fact that you are paying bills and running costs will not mean that you are automatically entitled to some share of any equity he might have.

You need to look up the rules of dying without a will.

If he's not prepared to marry, ask him to go to a solicitor and you too and have some sort of trust set up so you do own a share of his property equity or ask him to make you a joint owner.

Go and make mirror wills, ask him to put your son in the will.

If he sees a long term partner but not for marrying then he will do this in a flash or as long as it takes to find a solicitor.

If he doesn't want to, then, you know immediately where you stand and dont waste anymore time.

Or you could stay there knowing that if anything happened to his health or he died, then he wouldn't provide for you and your son. You could go on hoping that one day he is will see that marriage is for him. It depends if that would niggle.

Go to a lawyer who knows their stuff on co-habitation and a property lawyer.

Helltotheno Fri 22-Mar-13 16:57:10

OP there are plenty of women here with grown children who are anything but fucked up and who worked full time. I really hope you can say you're offering your child the rolls royce of parenting because ime parents are capable of fucking things up much worse than childcare is!!

Hoopy sounds to me like you have the ideal thing at the moment.. don't rush to change it. Tell him you don't want him moving in thanks grin

LessMissAbs Fri 22-Mar-13 16:38:38

So many obstacles to doing anything but getting men to pay for women once they have had children according to you OP, its a wonder anyone manages it at all!

Hoopypoopy Fri 22-Mar-13 16:35:31

Only read this tread quickly. But like all people, there are plenty of immature older men who shirk 'dealing' with stuff. I should know,I have one. he;s early 50s, I'm in my 40s. We both have kids by earlier relationships. But I went through hell to get thro a divorce from my now ex. My partner is still married but seperated from his missus, seems unable to sort that one out. His place is constantly 'under renovation', but never done. I did give up last year and bought MY place, which is MINE. In everyone else's eyes I should walk away. And I have tried dating other people. One week he tells me he doesn't want more commitment, he never wants to get married again. The next week he wants to sell his place and we move in together....It is like a ping pong match. But I love him, he makes me laugh like noone else ever has, I feel loved, wanted and protected, my child adores him, so I can't let it go. So I do sympathise. It doesn't always come down tologic in relationships sadly.But you do need to cover yourself from risk as much as possible OP.

lightsandshapes Fri 22-Mar-13 12:49:57

Pq I have not left my career. I am part time. Read 'how not to fu&k them up' by Oliver James and you will know why I am not happy with the nursery idea. Also 'the continuum concept' I've researched it well, but I won't rehearse all the arguments here.

PureQuintessence Fri 22-Mar-13 11:53:51

So what is stopping you going back to your career, and put your child in nursery, like so many other people who need to support themselves? Why can you not do that?

lightsandshapes Fri 22-Mar-13 10:15:05

What I meant was those like me that spend ages building a career have kids late, have less time to build a family etc. etc.

lightsandshapes Fri 22-Mar-13 10:01:38

Sorry helltotheno.... I don't quite understand your post..... I never said anything about equating full time work with being a high flyer (confused).

Helltotheno Fri 22-Mar-13 09:35:56

Cop out OP. Working full time does not necessarily = high flyer. People work for many different reasons. You have this very odd idea about childcare. If you're not prepared to do anything to change your life, put up or shut up basically. This guy is under no obligation to you.

lightsandshapes Fri 22-Mar-13 09:35:42

less missabs. I don't have a phd in buy to let mortgages you know....

lightsandshapes Fri 22-Mar-13 09:22:29

I do mention I moved in for love if you retread les missabs.....

If you read the battle for motherhood, you will see why high achieving lifestyles and motherhood don't go well together.... Actually put you at a disadvantage......

LessMissAbs Fri 22-Mar-13 07:45:33

Nowhere in any of your posts do you mention being in love with this man, having any consideration for his thoughts and feelings, etc...

Anyway, most mortgage lenders who do buy to let will require you to have your own, or joint property that you live in first. Its not exactly hard to find this out by googling buy to let mortgages or the main buy to let mortgage lenders. Since you have a phd, I'm surprised if you were genuinely interested, you haven't done so already.

Perhaps in real life you are a lovely genuine person but on here you have come across as money oriented and have been abusive to posters who don't agree with you. You must surely realise that most women who have been to university generally go for the sort of relationship where they are equals with their partner and see nothing wrong with paying their own way in life, even if they choose not to work after having DCs, at least for a little while. I would think mumsnet has a far higher than average number of SAHMs, as many women in work won't have time to post. Even so, people have been pointing out to you its better to be self supporting if you possibly can. You have the benefit of a lengthy education - what was the point in getting that phd? What example are you setting to your DC if you under-achieve and expect others to prop you up financially?

Your post just drives home what a hassle and a strain organising your life in this way must be. Working and getting your own mortgage is so much easier - I am the same age as you and it was easier to buy property then. I think if I hadn't done that, I'd be doing everything I could now to stay in a secure job and buy my own place. This man would be a fool to sign over the rights in his property to you, and he sounds about as willing as a lamb being led to slaughter. Would it not be easier to start again and try to find a man that loves you and wants to marry you, instead of trying to force an unwilling one into it? Its undignified. Your various posts on here make you sound so unhappy and terribly insecure and frightened of the future.

As for your costs. If you have paid half the bills, you would have had to pay your own bills anyway if living in your own place. Extra food for one person isn't that much, certainly not as much as paying rent or a mortgage for your own place. Even 5 years at £400 a month rent would be worth a saving of around £20,000 on your part, so even if you live in Scotland, I can hardly think that you have been economically disadvantaged and can make some claim beyond child maintenance. I don't feel that sorry for you though, since unlike many other women, you do have a good job and education.

If this man is really considering signing the agreement you have drawn up, he really needs to get independent legal advice, otherwise it risks being challengable on grounds similar to undue influence or coercion, depending on the exact situation.

PureQuintessence Wed 20-Mar-13 23:28:40

You need to stop being miffed and getting a hump when people want to give you sensible advice.

I have had far too much wine now to be able to talk sensibky aboyut byt o let mortgages and rental investm,ents.

plinkyplonks Wed 20-Mar-13 05:46:49

lightsandshapes - I understand the situation around the dogs. I have one and would rather live in the streets than give up my dog. I have rented properties when having a dog, and although I've had to pay a slightly higher deposit and limited the amount of properties, it has not been impossible. I have lived in a few different cities across the country, and it's never been a problem. Lots of properties say "no pets" but when you contact the estate agent and offer a higher deposit it's usually not a big problem.

In terms of the house, I think purchasing a BTL would be a great idea. Get your 4k back and your half way to a great deposit. I live in one of the most expensive places in UK to live but you can still pick up flats/2 bed terraces with a 15k - 20k deposit. Doesn't have to be somewhere amazing, just a back up plan for yourself and your DC should anything go wrong in your relationship. It's also a great investment for your DC and yourself in the future, to fund uni costs etc.

It's clear you don't want to send your child to a nursery. I have to say that I myself was not put into a nursery but my sisters were. The difference in social skills they had to my own when we the same age made me wish my parents had forked out on me going too. I know you want to spend time with DC and that very much is your choice. But I think there are many benefits for your DC to go to nursery and learn to be sociable with other children and a structured learning day,

You perhaps need to decide whether you want a career and a higher income that will allow you to purchase your own property (not necessarily to move out, but a BTL to safeguard your future. You can always remortgage to a residential mortgage if you want to move in yourself) or whether you want to keep the status quo (which means uncertainty for your future if anything goes wrong with your relationship as potentially you could struggle to rent with 3 dogs) and spend time with your DC.

I understand your partner's reluctance to marry as he has a lot to lose and nothing to gain by getting married. What I would be more worried about is why he doesn't want another child (would you be happy if he said no?) and how whether you're willing to stay if he refuses another?

Best of luck!

Lavenderhoney Wed 20-Mar-13 02:34:11

Yes?, buy to let will suit you as you will just pay the interest, nt capital and interest. If you look at the area you might buy, look at flat rentals ( remembering they are normally beaten down) to see what rentals are. Your rental is offset against tax on the mortgage interest when you do a tax return.
Your rental should cover your monthly mortgage payment.
Then you can look on money supermarket and do the mortgage calculations- look on rightmove at property and see what you need. Don't forget legal fees.

Look at websites, blogs etc and get information. Read the financial papers and understand about money. Just keep at it if you are not used to it, it will fall into place. Understand how it works.

Sorry about your pnd. Don't you have friends who work? Not everyone is a sahm- and you need to get out when your ds is at school. Work will be good. One day you might own loads of properties .

On the subject of the 4k , he should pay it by cheque or transfer into your account now- not when you need it and then directly to the bank or solicitor. Get him to do it now, before there is no money as its all gone on an extension...

Great advice from DIY btw.

DIYapprentice Tue 19-Mar-13 18:59:50

Yes you do need a buy to let mortgage - and you will probably need about a 30% deposit.

I think the other posters are right - you need to focus on making yourself financially independent. Pay for only half of the running costs of the house, make sure you save the difference, and scrimp and save like mad to buy yourself an investment property. You can get a studio or a 1 bed flat somewhere, for less than a house - if it's in a uni area you can rent it out fairly easily (maybe near where you are as you work in a uni). And make sure he doesn't pay ANYTHING towards the property (make sure the repayment of £4,000 is clearly a repayment, and not an investment into your property).

Branleuse Tue 19-Mar-13 18:44:46

I don't have a husband. I have a partner and we are perfectly commited and I have no intention of forcing anyone to marry me.

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