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Getting him to properly commit

(119 Posts)
lightsandshapes Fri 15-Mar-13 14:30:00

Advice please!

Short version is that I have 1ds who is a gorgeous 15 month old and dp also has 2 dds aged 22 and 23. Him and their mum never married. I was not on the scene anywhere near their break up. He says is was a young relationship, he got her pregnant on the 2nd date and he (apparently begrudgingly) stayed with her for 8 years. That's his version. We all get on well. They are lovely girls and are good with ds. Anyway my problem is dps inability to commit to anything! It took him 5 years to agree to having ds1. Now he is the apple of his eye. It will probably take another 5 years to agree to a dc2. He owns his small house outright. I pay monthly bills (half) and buy the majority of the food. So he does ok out of me. But he won't marry (reckons just a piece of paper) and is dragging his heels about putting me and ds in a will so that if he pre deceases me, me and ds will be provided for (and there will be stability for ds so we are not kicked out of the house and essentially on the streets). He is 47 and so older than me as I'm 36. I have invested in the house, spending four grand on a new bathroom, etc etc etc.

I know you might say I went in wit my eyes open, and I should have got this figured put before I moved in, but I was kind of blinded by lust and attraction. Now I feel I've left me and ds pretty vulnerable. I wish now I had followed the rules or something and had no sex before marriage, but he wouldn't have stayed around I reckon.

How can I get him to marry or at least write a will protecting ds in his family home while he grows up? My dp is all talk and no action over anything! Even to the point of taking about home improvements and chores but not doing them...

Coffee1Sugar Sun 17-Mar-13 20:36:51

Lol you're laughable op.

PureQuintessence Sun 17-Mar-13 20:38:36

I don't think she was rude. She gave her perspective, based on what you have said on the thread, and how you come across.

tribpot Sun 17-Mar-13 20:39:00

OP I don't think feminism is the point here. You want a set of things which are not compatible. If you want to take some risks to see if it will somehow come together down the line, that's your choice, but most of the advice you have had here has been suggesting ways to minimise or mitigate your risk.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Sun 17-Mar-13 20:55:22

OP the only person who has been rude here is you.

You are a fool to leave yourself so vulnerable, an utter fool. You think he wouldn't have stuck around if you had insisted on marriage? And yet you still had a child with him? Oh dear, not the most positive image of a relationship to give your son, is it?

Branleuse Mon 18-Mar-13 07:25:52

stop paying for food?? why?
she lives there.

lightsandshapes Mon 18-Mar-13 08:09:48

ahem, calling someone a gold digger is rude in my book PQ, call me old fashioned. I cant imagine her ever having the guts to call someone it to their faces. She would get a slap. Rude!

I am aware that I know nothing about these people who are so critical of my life choices. It sounds lke we have a load of stepford wives on here who have their husbands under their thumbs and everything smelling of roses. I very much doubt this is the case. It has made me realise the limitations of advice on here, so I'm off to talk to some NON JUDGEMENTAL professionals.

Bye and good luck with your perfect lives

Alibabaandthe40nappies Mon 18-Mar-13 08:33:33

Well, I do have a husband who I didn't have to beg to marry me or give me babies, and I joint own our house and business and assets.

I think your situation sounds awful, but you've only yourself to blame for that.

And the 'gold digger' was more a statement of fact than an insult given what you've written.


lightsandshapes Mon 18-Mar-13 09:02:54

well bully for you alibaba..... now its just your sense of empathy and common humanity you need to work on! you sound lovely to be around -NOT! And you could be called a gold digger too dear - boasting about your assets - I have no interest in those.....

Lavenderhoney Mon 18-Mar-13 09:15:44

Why don't you ask him to put the house to be spilt between all the dcs ( not you) should anything happen? There should be a trustee in place to protect the money for your ds until he is of age.

Then ask for your 4k, and put it with your savings to buy a property to rent.

If your day to day life is fine, then I don't see a problem. Getting married wont give you half anyway, not if he has made a will without your knowledge leaving it to his children, and his pension rights etc.

He doesn't sound the marrying kind. Some people aren't. If he is still with you and loves you it's fine and you have more than some married people.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Mon 18-Mar-13 10:33:07


I've plenty of empathy - but you have walked into your situation with your eyes wide open, what did you think was going to happen?

You need to look to your own financial security, seeing as your DP obviously isn't going to share his with you.
Making provision for your son is different, your DP should be looking to do that alongside providing for his older daughters.

Coffee1Sugar Mon 18-Mar-13 12:37:29

And you criticise me for being "just 25" (I have a masters degree and I own a house. Yes I must be immature hmm) and yet you're a decade older than me saying "she'd get a slap", very mature.

lightsandshapes Mon 18-Mar-13 13:13:39

I am interested in how you managed to pay off a mortgage by 25, get trhrough uni and fund a masters degree. Did your mum and dad help or are you a stripper / escort??? <grin>.

Respect to you but there's no need to call me a gold digger when you dont even know me. I wanted to get things legally in place so I could fund an extension so we could have a table and chairs so ds could eat his dinner from a table. That is hardly gold digging. I would have chosen a man with a much bigger house.

The problem is you don't know me so you've created an incorrect picture in your head.

Thanks lavender honey day to day life is great, hence no real push factor.....

Alibaba, I mentioned the 'eyes wide open' thing in my original post. Yawn......

Helltotheno Mon 18-Mar-13 14:18:38

Sounds like you could do better Op. Seriously, get your 4k back, raise your standards and get rid of the pooches...

BadLad Mon 18-Mar-13 14:20:36

How can I get him to marry or at least write a will protecting ds in his family home while he grows up?

I'd say you are better off focussing on the latter at first.

Absolutely nobody can accuse you of gold digging for trying to secure financial protection for your son.

But there are plenty of reasons, some of them valid, some not so valid, for him not to get married.

I think I would start by trying to reduce my contributions to the running of the household, if I were you. If he won't marry you, then you need to start taking steps to get your own financial stability, as he already has his house. If he objects, point out that you are already behind where you should be after spending the four grand on the bathroom.

Eurostar Mon 18-Mar-13 15:20:14

If he is not signing this will he is presumably not happy about it and being a bit of a coward about saying why. If your relationship is not good enough to have a calm conversation about what is making him not wanting to sign this, that's not great. Forget ultimatums, try to have a calm, rational conversation about this. If marriage is just a piece of paper to him, it is a piece of paper that gives you financial rights so I'd be wanting to know why he does not want you to have them.

I would agree that your priority should be to make sure that there is provision for your DS in the will and that would include being able to stay in the house until adulthood if something untoward should happen to your DP as of course it would be dreadful to lose a father and then have to move. If you can afford it, maybe get the person who drafted this will to put down in writing for DP the implications for his DS if he does not sign.

I am not sure why people are saying you should get the 4k back, you presumably benefit from the nice bathroom and live rent free there and have done always? Doesn't seem to me unreasonable that you paid this. Don't continue to invest in the house though unless he signs a percentage over to you I'd say though. With a tenants in common rather than joint tenancy arrangement, you can own any percentage you agree on.

As for bills, if it is really true that you pay the majority and nothing is being missed out, then do your sums and definitely reduce your contribution to 50% so that you can begin saving.

[following is my opinion and not financial advice] I don't think that the advice to buy somewhere to rent out as an investment is good advice at the moment. Property prices are only rising in a few areas of the country and you could easily be buying into a falling asset unless you can afford to buy somewhere very desirable. Also, if you had hassles with a tenant then that's a lot of profit wiped off. I'd be using up my ISA allowances, split between a cash ISA and a medium risk shares ISA, if you really want to be invested in property, then an ISA that tracks the property market is possible. Doesn't sound like you can afford to invest the full amount of an ISA even a year at the moment.

Meanwhile, you sound pretty frustrated with him as a whole. Whether he is just someone who can't be bothered with reality or he is actually trying to find an exit from your relationship, only you can know...

lightsandshapes Tue 19-Mar-13 14:08:52

I must admit. I have enjoyed the robust discussion. I have realised the is no point waiting for dp to magically change and I must set about doing things for me and ds...... I can't tell you how long it has taken me to realise this. Last night he said..... When are you going to put togethr a planning application for a house extension. I said I am not doing anything until you update your will. I would be a mug to put an extension on a house I do not own. You are not going to change and so I am from now on going to start planing a financial future for ds and I. He said, you say that so many times..... I realise how manipulative he can be with words. It is quite shocking really.

Lavenderhoney Tue 19-Mar-13 17:18:30

Well done for saying that to himsmile now you just have to get on and do it!

Certainly discuss with him the future ie, house in all 3 dc names - he should do that otherwise point out the legal costs to all if he doesn't. Then let him get on with it.

If you do decide to buy to let, moneysupermarket for what you can borrow, then look outside your area if you have to for financial reasons. The nearest university or hospital town in a good apartment block - don't forget it's not you living in it. You won't have to be there at all. It will be insured anyway. If there is a problem, then most tenants are happy to arrange a plumber or whatever at a time to suit them. My fridge broke down once and I arranged the collection of the old/ delivery of the new all online. 'twas easy, for me and the tenant.

Keep all receipts as you will need to use them on your tax return if you buy something. Tax returns are easy to fill in online, I promise! Plus there are loads of mn sections to help you!

lightsandshapes Tue 19-Mar-13 18:07:33

Great advice lavender honey thank you. I asked my boss if I could go full time in November (he hasn't come back to me yet) however it is ripping my emotions apart. I am really shite at the working mum thing (my mum was a Sahm mum and it's all I've known)..... Perhaps pmt right now ain't helping.

lightsandshapes Tue 19-Mar-13 18:08:09

P.s. do I need a specific buy to let mortgage if I go ahead with that???

Branleuse Tue 19-Mar-13 18:44:46

I don't have a husband. I have a partner and we are perfectly commited and I have no intention of forcing anyone to marry me.

DIYapprentice Tue 19-Mar-13 18:59:50

Yes you do need a buy to let mortgage - and you will probably need about a 30% deposit.

I think the other posters are right - you need to focus on making yourself financially independent. Pay for only half of the running costs of the house, make sure you save the difference, and scrimp and save like mad to buy yourself an investment property. You can get a studio or a 1 bed flat somewhere, for less than a house - if it's in a uni area you can rent it out fairly easily (maybe near where you are as you work in a uni). And make sure he doesn't pay ANYTHING towards the property (make sure the repayment of £4,000 is clearly a repayment, and not an investment into your property).

Lavenderhoney Wed 20-Mar-13 02:34:11

Yes?, buy to let will suit you as you will just pay the interest, nt capital and interest. If you look at the area you might buy, look at flat rentals ( remembering they are normally beaten down) to see what rentals are. Your rental is offset against tax on the mortgage interest when you do a tax return.
Your rental should cover your monthly mortgage payment.
Then you can look on money supermarket and do the mortgage calculations- look on rightmove at property and see what you need. Don't forget legal fees.

Look at websites, blogs etc and get information. Read the financial papers and understand about money. Just keep at it if you are not used to it, it will fall into place. Understand how it works.

Sorry about your pnd. Don't you have friends who work? Not everyone is a sahm- and you need to get out when your ds is at school. Work will be good. One day you might own loads of properties .

On the subject of the 4k , he should pay it by cheque or transfer into your account now- not when you need it and then directly to the bank or solicitor. Get him to do it now, before there is no money as its all gone on an extension...

Great advice from DIY btw.

plinkyplonks Wed 20-Mar-13 05:46:49

lightsandshapes - I understand the situation around the dogs. I have one and would rather live in the streets than give up my dog. I have rented properties when having a dog, and although I've had to pay a slightly higher deposit and limited the amount of properties, it has not been impossible. I have lived in a few different cities across the country, and it's never been a problem. Lots of properties say "no pets" but when you contact the estate agent and offer a higher deposit it's usually not a big problem.

In terms of the house, I think purchasing a BTL would be a great idea. Get your 4k back and your half way to a great deposit. I live in one of the most expensive places in UK to live but you can still pick up flats/2 bed terraces with a 15k - 20k deposit. Doesn't have to be somewhere amazing, just a back up plan for yourself and your DC should anything go wrong in your relationship. It's also a great investment for your DC and yourself in the future, to fund uni costs etc.

It's clear you don't want to send your child to a nursery. I have to say that I myself was not put into a nursery but my sisters were. The difference in social skills they had to my own when we the same age made me wish my parents had forked out on me going too. I know you want to spend time with DC and that very much is your choice. But I think there are many benefits for your DC to go to nursery and learn to be sociable with other children and a structured learning day,

You perhaps need to decide whether you want a career and a higher income that will allow you to purchase your own property (not necessarily to move out, but a BTL to safeguard your future. You can always remortgage to a residential mortgage if you want to move in yourself) or whether you want to keep the status quo (which means uncertainty for your future if anything goes wrong with your relationship as potentially you could struggle to rent with 3 dogs) and spend time with your DC.

I understand your partner's reluctance to marry as he has a lot to lose and nothing to gain by getting married. What I would be more worried about is why he doesn't want another child (would you be happy if he said no?) and how whether you're willing to stay if he refuses another?

Best of luck!

PureQuintessence Wed 20-Mar-13 23:28:40

You need to stop being miffed and getting a hump when people want to give you sensible advice.

I have had far too much wine now to be able to talk sensibky aboyut byt o let mortgages and rental investm,ents.

LessMissAbs Fri 22-Mar-13 07:45:33

Nowhere in any of your posts do you mention being in love with this man, having any consideration for his thoughts and feelings, etc...

Anyway, most mortgage lenders who do buy to let will require you to have your own, or joint property that you live in first. Its not exactly hard to find this out by googling buy to let mortgages or the main buy to let mortgage lenders. Since you have a phd, I'm surprised if you were genuinely interested, you haven't done so already.

Perhaps in real life you are a lovely genuine person but on here you have come across as money oriented and have been abusive to posters who don't agree with you. You must surely realise that most women who have been to university generally go for the sort of relationship where they are equals with their partner and see nothing wrong with paying their own way in life, even if they choose not to work after having DCs, at least for a little while. I would think mumsnet has a far higher than average number of SAHMs, as many women in work won't have time to post. Even so, people have been pointing out to you its better to be self supporting if you possibly can. You have the benefit of a lengthy education - what was the point in getting that phd? What example are you setting to your DC if you under-achieve and expect others to prop you up financially?

Your post just drives home what a hassle and a strain organising your life in this way must be. Working and getting your own mortgage is so much easier - I am the same age as you and it was easier to buy property then. I think if I hadn't done that, I'd be doing everything I could now to stay in a secure job and buy my own place. This man would be a fool to sign over the rights in his property to you, and he sounds about as willing as a lamb being led to slaughter. Would it not be easier to start again and try to find a man that loves you and wants to marry you, instead of trying to force an unwilling one into it? Its undignified. Your various posts on here make you sound so unhappy and terribly insecure and frightened of the future.

As for your costs. If you have paid half the bills, you would have had to pay your own bills anyway if living in your own place. Extra food for one person isn't that much, certainly not as much as paying rent or a mortgage for your own place. Even 5 years at £400 a month rent would be worth a saving of around £20,000 on your part, so even if you live in Scotland, I can hardly think that you have been economically disadvantaged and can make some claim beyond child maintenance. I don't feel that sorry for you though, since unlike many other women, you do have a good job and education.

If this man is really considering signing the agreement you have drawn up, he really needs to get independent legal advice, otherwise it risks being challengable on grounds similar to undue influence or coercion, depending on the exact situation.

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