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"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

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DontstepontheMomeRaths Sun 03-Mar-13 18:27:22

Thread opener here:
You may need to right-click and 'unblock' it after downloading it.

It's March 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.


Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly use it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

GoodtoBetter Thu 15-Aug-13 15:48:57

you see I ran around for years pandering to her every whim because I felt if I could just fix things she'd be happy. But she never's like she enjoys being a's like a drug. She can find the negative in everything.
One of her complaints is she can't sleep because the town fair is on behind her house with v loud music blaring til 6am, but it happens every year, she could have organised to go away.
Once the phone call didn't work (I was just v non commital...lots of hmmm, yes..oh dear) she resorts to the pathetic..."I'm so sorry, just trying to cope". Such drama always. sad Why? To manipulate me, to punish me for escaping from her control, for no longer putting her above everyone including my DH and DCs.

AttilaTheMeerkat Thu 15-Aug-13 15:53:23


Your last sentence is correct, she does enjoy being miserable and wants to make you feel the same. You've probably been conditioned as well to call her as often as humanely possible, that needs to be worked on by you as well.

Ignore any future calls from her as of now, you are on holiday after all.
And no she is not sorry (narcissists do not know the meaning of the word) nor is she trying her best either.

I would also advise you to no longer send pictures of your children to her; she does not really want that because she's not interested in them as an emotionally healthy and happy grandmother would be (well only to use them as narc supply as well or choose her own favourite with the other child being assigned as the scapegoat). She just wants you to continue your to her assigned role of narcissistic supply. Every time you call its all about her. She will not change.

They are also masters of come closer so I can hurt you again.

The only thing that works to my mind with narcs is distance and ultimately no contact. I have very little contact with my ILs because they are both narcissistic in nature, I have to do this to protect my own mental health and sanity because they can and do drive you nuts. I watch their car crash of a life from afar and its not a pretty picture at all.

It is not your fault she is like this, her own birth family created that particular narcissistic monster.

GoodtoBetter Thu 15-Aug-13 16:02:01

You're spot on there Atila. Her own relationship with her mother was fucked up. Also about the golden vs scapegoat...she seems to be doing that with my DC (or at the v least DS is favoured).
I did use to phone her ALOT if we were away. Used to drive DH mad. Have made a big effort to not do that this time and have only phoned once and then cut it short when she was moaning about nothing. This morning she phoned me and then texted 3 times after...each one gradually more pathetic. I responded to the first suggesting she put the air con on and try to sleep. Haven't responded to the last one, because what to say really?
I struggle with guilt because I don't like to think of someone being unhappy, but it's not like I can do anything about it and what she's complaining about is nonsense really.

Hissy Thu 15-Aug-13 19:42:18

G2B, you know this is her 'thing' Stay calm and power yourself through it.

Remember how you dealt with it before, by not rising, by saying 'That's your decision' etc?

REfresher course! smile

I'm toying with the idea of opening a thread of my own, but tbh, I don't know if I want the exposure, it's humiliating and just crap.

My mother moved 3 weeks ago, but didn't give me any forwarding address. she's not told me whereabouts in the county she's moved to, but it's hours away. I know the county btw.

I've had manipulative texts from my Sis, both ignored. Her only interest in life is to hurt me, and this time I saw as no different. I have had a couple of calls from DM, all from her 'Private Number'. 1st couple of calls, she didn't even leave me her number, just left a message (I don't answer withheld calls), eventually she left her number on my phone. The second call - bearing in mind I didn't even HAVE any details for her - she was prickly and had an irritated and pointed tone to her voice. WTF

Last call was Friday, when she finally gave me her address. I wrote it on a piece of paper. Significant that her birthday is in a couple of weeks time?

She spoke to DS, and oddly asked him to write to her, so that she and he could exchange letters. It felt odd at the time, but i dismissed it. (He's 7 btw, writing is NOT in any way a favourite passtime of his).

Tuesday DS receives a letter, telling him she wants him to come and visit, the sea is near, blah blah, lots of love GMX

then a gap and an after thought, Love to Mummy too.

Instincts told me that it was manipulative, and was wrong. DS said he thought it weird.

I binned the card and the address. AIBU? I'm angered by it, it feels that she's trying to win my son over, pretend to be nice so she can tell others how she writes to her GS. while leaving his mother for dead, AGAIN

I'm in therapy again, because of this, I need the help to work out wtf it all is. Am 100& alone, hurt that she's done this to me, but sadly not surprised.

i don't know what I'm looking for, some understanding perhaps, reassurance that I have a right to feel hurt.

All my normal non-Stately Homer friends tell me to bin her, to take the hint and that it's disgusting what she has done. No-one I know (myself included) could ever imagine moving away from our children.

Sorry to ramble, so confused, bewildered, and dizzy with the feelings I have. I'm in shock somehow and wonder why on earth my family turned out to be so bloody awful, it's a sodding nightmare.

Hissy Thu 15-Aug-13 19:44:07

Everyone is telling me that it's not my fault.

I tell me that it's not my fault. I just don't believe it. sad

NameChangeToGo Thu 15-Aug-13 19:51:22

They are also masters of come closer so I can hurt you again

Yes. Absolutely yes.

Well done good, I bet it's better for your family too when you're not on the phone so much (and if anything like me, simmering for a while after)

NameChangeToGo Thu 15-Aug-13 19:54:17

hissy you sound so tired of it sad

Hissy Thu 15-Aug-13 20:26:27

I am.

I'd give anything to turn back the clock and not realise how monumentally crap they all are.

How on earth was I ever a member of that family?

Wouldn't -t be great if I was like them, i'd not notice then, would i?


GoodtoBetter Thu 15-Aug-13 20:26:35

hissy She sounds like an utter loon and a manipulative bitch. You did right to bin the card, it was meant to wound you. sad Will check back later DC bedtime. xx

Hissy Thu 15-Aug-13 20:34:15

It's all done with such niceness. With the tetchy tone under if i'm not immediately jumping.

Would you understand if I said I find it so hard to believe that she's like this?

It just won't sink in. I don't want it to be like this.

pumpkinsweetie Thu 15-Aug-13 20:38:48

hissy you definetly did the right think throwing out the card.
So sorry you are going through all this right now, must be dreadful.

Mil phoned up dh today after a few untoxic days and he's only gone and blabbed his working hours to herconfused
Good thing is no more about contact has been mentionedsmile.

pumpkinsweetie Thu 15-Aug-13 20:39:28

By dh obviously, not sure whether she did...

GoodtoBetter Thu 15-Aug-13 20:40:03

I totally understand that. When my DM is "behaving herself" I wonder if it's me being a bitch, maybe she wasn't awful and I'm over sensitive or something. I have to remind myself of the awful things she said about me and DH and the suicide threats and all that and yet I still find it hard to believe it. It's one of the hardest things...the self doubt.

GoodtoBetter Thu 15-Aug-13 20:40:49

Can you go NC , seeing as she moved away anyway?

NameChangeToGo Thu 15-Aug-13 20:45:33

This thread is such an eye opener for me. I completely understand the self doubt too.

Hissy Thu 15-Aug-13 20:47:43

I feel sick at the thought, but I think if I were able to stand back and advise someone else, i'd probably suggest the same.

'you moved without telling me where' is about as grim as it gets isn't it? No matter what happens now, it's too little too late, isn't it? No coming back from this is there?

I'm supposed to suck it up aren't I?

If I react they'll eye-roll and say there she goes again.

I'm aiming for ice cold fact. My friends say better delivered face to face.

I don't have her address or number, she's deleted from my phone. Only an email address if I delve into gmail.

Do I ignore the birthday? I kind of have to really, have no way of contacting her really.

Sheesh, advising others is a lot flaming easier! smile

NameChangeToGo Thu 15-Aug-13 20:56:29

Do you think you can achieve anything by talking to her? However ice cold the facts? I don't know the back story but it sounds like a horrible situation to be in.

GoodtoBetter Thu 15-Aug-13 20:58:08

I think you ignore the birthday and if there's any comeback or eyerolling you stick to cold hard facts...she moved away with no forwarding address and has therefore made it clear she doesn't want you to contact her.

Hissy Thu 15-Aug-13 22:57:20

Would it achieve anything by talking to her?

Seriously? No. Probably not. We've already had conversations about her bailing out on me when my abusive ex left, and how not talking to me for weeks at a time when I was in real life purgatory, and they knew.

I've cried buckets telling her how i'd wish my sis hadn't deliberately hurt me so badly I had to sever contact.

I've pointed out that her H shrieking at me, repeatedly, having insulted me and not apologising, is not supportive and hurts. I've been clear that I see myself on the outside, put here by them all, but not knowing why.

All my life i've had people being god awfully mean, and she's stood by, allowing it.

I hate that I have to break away, but I do don't i?

I'd do anything not to have to have it like this.

Am I too old to put myself up for adoption? smile

Hissy Thu 15-Aug-13 22:59:48

How do I get to the place where I know i'm doing the right thing?

Where I feel I am doing the right thing?

GoodtoBetter Thu 15-Aug-13 23:09:12

I'm not sure, my love sad . Maybe go NC for a while - what have you got to lose and perhaps the relief at not fighting will give you more confidence that's it's right. If she weren't your mother you wouldn't put up with it. Don't be bound by blood to someone awful. (big squishy hugs) xx

Hissy Thu 15-Aug-13 23:22:37

You're so right! Thank you!

If she were anyone else I know i'd be clearer on this.

Everyone that knows me, know that I believe 'family' should be held to a higher account.

I think the stance I shall take, with myself as much as anyone, is that I need time.

I need time to process this, to consider how I feel, and heal.

Thanks G2B! That's really helped! :D

GoodtoBetter Thu 15-Aug-13 23:39:05

You're welcome, my love. You can't imagine how much you helped me on those first threads of mine at xmas time. You were so right about so much of what then came to pass and your advice is always spot on.
Ignore the old bat's birthday and have no contact with her for while, block or change numbers if necessary (after all, that's what she did to you) take some time without her needling at you and see how you feel. Bet you won't feel any worse wink

Tanggodown1 Fri 16-Aug-13 07:49:58

I have not talked to my mum now for 18 months after I left my ex off 16 years she supports him now and instantly took his side and blocked me out of her life
All I know is she isn't normal and I had a massive sense off relieve when I moved away from her as well as him I felt happier without her not too sure why really yet....

After leaving him I was controlled greatly 7 dc later we come rly lived in isolation

Now I do the same I am trying
I have no family except my Df, I have two mates who don't live near
I have never even worked I have no life
I'm so lost

Hissy Fri 16-Aug-13 14:57:54

If you can find a way to get yourself into work, it'll do wonders to deal with your isolation.

You're not alone on MN!

Plenty of us here to listen to you!

When my horrific ex left and my family fucked off to the moon (well, next closest place tbh) and then shunned all my attempts to recover, hampering me wherever possible, the only people who gave a shit were people on here, and my 2 friends (neither one in the same country as me)

We don't need RL people per se, just people with common sense that care enough to ask if you're OK.

Hissy Sat 17-Aug-13 00:33:54


Overwhelming sense of inadequacy/failure. Or is it just humiliation.

I could ask why forever and the answer'll never come. I just don't understand.

Tanggodown1 Sat 17-Aug-13 08:32:47

Thank you Hissy
I have name changed as my ex knows my other name and it was MN that made me see how bad things were and helped me leave as you guys were all I had literally ;)

I just feel like it must be me I must be not a nice person if my own DM supports him such a controlling angry man
It's not doing me much good for building myself up after leaving him

I'm happier going no contact with my mum though

Tanggodown1 Sat 17-Aug-13 08:35:46

Missed your last post

I feel reflected like a ugly duckling

All I know is it hurts

Hissy Sat 17-Aug-13 08:41:40

It was your mother that created the situation that led to you being in a DV relationship.

She's the same kind of person, so of course she'll back him.

I think that it's a form of jealousy, a resentment that we're nicer people than them. So they have to destroy us, as they can't be like us.

Still hurts like hell.

Thank god for MN!

GoodtoBetter Sat 17-Aug-13 11:09:33

Glad you're NC with your DM, tango.
I'm off home today from lovely holssad will prob see DM tmrw.

AttilaTheMeerkat Sat 17-Aug-13 11:15:54


You are really under no obligation (that word again) to see your mother tomorrow.

Spend a further nice day with your children instead rather than subjecting yourself/ves to her non company and narcissism.

GoodtoBetter Sat 17-Aug-13 16:50:17

I do know what you mean but it gets it over and done with sad . I know you'll say why do I bother but I'm not up to going NC, and I don't think it's fair or workable when we live a 5 min walk away.

pumpkinsweetie Sat 17-Aug-13 17:20:40

Can't be easy goodtobe hope it doesn't go to badly & hope you enjoyed your time away.

Nothing much going on here for a change and i'm glad, mil tried to get on the warpath yesterday but dh ignored all her calls.

Tanggodown1 Sat 17-Aug-13 17:30:27

Yes I'm glad I have MN its nice to feel its not me I'm not the odd one

I see what you mean about about going into a dv relationship
How did I grow up so very insecure? What creates that in people as I certainly don't want my dc's feeling like that
I must have been so vulnerable at 17 ?

She had no hesitation in backing him no question no discussion she put phone down that was it
She knew what she was doing

I do feel a bit better thank you Hissy x

GoodtoBetter Sat 17-Aug-13 22:25:48

texted her to say we'd be over in the morning and she's on her best behaviour and saying she'd love to see us but only if we're not too busy wink

Hissy Sat 17-Aug-13 23:46:50

Best behaviour?

Or an attempt at a guilt trip! Have your stock phrases ready! smile

GoodtoBetter Sun 18-Aug-13 07:12:26

Yes, twas meant ironically smile . Her text would sound fine to anyone else but it's guilt tripping a go go. Won't be there long and then it's done. How are you, Hissy?

Maybeamug Sun 18-Aug-13 07:25:14

Hi folks, I'm sorry to come crashing in here, but I don't know if this is the right place, or if I need to start a new thread (either here or in another topic).

I have issues/anxiety stemming from my childhood which I need to get a grip of (after 40ish years, I'm getting sick of them smile). And I need to make sure they don't impact on dd or any potential siblings.

I'm struggling to know where to turn, I've had some counselling (proved too difficult to schedule around childcare) but every time I run through what I think are the issues, they sound so jealous, petty and immature and I wonder if I'm just making a big deal over nothing....

Hissy Sun 18-Aug-13 08:11:40

smile good for you G2B, hope it's not too traumatic in thé end.

If she does start with the 'woe is me' then just nip it in the bud firmly

"Mum, we'd like to be able to take a few days off without coming back to a guilt trip, if at all possible"

As for me, hanging on by a thread mostly, it's bloody crap. But it'll get easier sometime, somehow.

Off to friends this afternoon, so that'll be nice! smile

Hissy Sun 18-Aug-13 08:14:40

Maybeamug, could you explain what you mean by your issues? What is it that you've had enough of.

I'm fairly sure that what you'll describe won't be insignificant at all, and if you're feeling the way you describe, it'll be for good reason.

Please don't minimise your feelings, they're usually valid.

If you want to talk, we're here to listen.

Spiritedwolf Sun 18-Aug-13 08:25:46

Hello, jumping into the thread a bit here. My dad was/is a bully, who shouted and made me feel terrible for really minor things, he was also the 'fun' parent who took us to theme parks, etc and made my mum fade into the background quite a bit. Life at home growing up was often for me centered around "what mood is dad in?" and being terrified of him exploding etc.

Anyway, I'd be interested in a few opinions on his current behaviour which is making me feel uncomfortable, but I'm unsure as to whether it's just because I distrust him (and would never feel comfortable around him) or whether the behaviour itself is a modified version of bullying.

We've all mostly grown up now, and my older sister and I have had (so far) three boys between us, all under 2 years old. When my dad plays with my older nephew especially, he's very "I'm coming to get you" playing chasing, tickling games. He's not especially rough but he does go on and on. If he finds one 'game' that makes them laugh, he keeps on doing it till they are fed up or overwhelmed and seems to be completely insensitive to how far he winds them up. The children are for the most part smiling and laughing - but I don't know if I'm projecting a bit here, sometimes it seems to be a nervous/stressed laugh, or they look away trying to do other things like they want to avoid him - especially as the game goes on. He just doesn't seem to know when to quit. So usually me or my mum steps in and 'rescues' the child by engaging them in another game/asking if they need a nappy change/food etc.

He's like this for a lot of the visit. I feel he doesn't give them a chance to be relaxed and playing doing their own thing, it has to be about him, he has to be keeping them on their toes, watching out for where grandad is. It makes me really uncomfortable and I couldn't just relax and leave them to play without worrying. I don't leave my DS with him (to be fair, I don't leave DS with anyone else other than DH either yet!)

DNeph1 does spend a lot of time at my parents house, and everytime I'm there he sticks to my DM like glue. This could just be pretty normal toddler stuff (and she's lovely, who wouldn't want to stick with her) but I suspect he also doesn't want to be left with dad.

There are other things that I dislike too - he's sarcastic, mean and expects unrealistic things from them given their ages. I also get the impression that he would really like them to be scared of him - he seems disappointed that his threats (expressed in 'oh so funny, amn't I hilarious' ways) and firm "No"s are completely ignored by my 12 month old. He'd like him to be scared so it was easier to tell him off I think.

I'm just wondering whether I'm being "over sensitive" to think that even the way he plays with them is to keep pushing their boundaries, to keep them on thier toes, to want them to be a bit scared of him.

My mum is better than she used to be about standing up to him, but I often wish I could just visit her and not him. I have talked to her about various little bits of his behviour when he's been mean/sarcastic. But I'm pretty sure that complaining about how he plays would sound really paranoid.

As a little aside, I also wonder if when he plays with DS he is aware of keeping me on my toes, and is enjoying the power he has over me by threatening my PFB.

IceCup Sun 18-Aug-13 08:27:51

This may fit here. My thoughts:
A boxroom sanctuary.
A childhood bedroom.

A box room: A place to store unwanted
To pack them away until they are needed.
An insular library: To relax, to read and to dream.
A sanctuary: respite from the trial that is life
In the open.
A retreat: for when the world becomes
Too much.
A hidden den: A safe place to be.
A place to hide from reality: to rest,
To gather bravery once more.
Small, cosy and reclusive; curl up and pretend
You're not there.

At night family members lie in forgotten corners; Each person divided by walls physical and emotional. United in fear, yet hidden from the terror of revealing yourself to others. Protected, curled in a foetal position, pretending you're not there. You don't exist in anyone's memory, except the memories that laugh and jeer. The memories that criticise and condescend.

In here you are... you. Reading of the trials of other girls overcoming obstacles in life and leading rich fulfilled adult lives. They become you, you become them. You face their trials, you revel in their successes. Nothing is insurmountable in this paper world: Creases can be flattened, errors rubbed away, even dramatic tears are repaired leaving only a gentle scar.

You fit in in this room. You belong. Alone with your thoughts and the secure lives of your faithful companions. Alone with the adventures of the mind. Alone with hundreds of books allowing you to escape into dramatic worlds. Worlds where you are not clumsy, worlds where you are the confident, adventurous, outgoing young lady you aspire to be. Safe in the knowledge that you need never actually do those things - that would be humiliating; a clumsy mess deluding herself she has ability.

Alone with your thoughts, you are content with your beliefs and strength of mind. Dreaming of the day you will be listened to, the day you will achieve. Dreaming of the day that your words will come out as you can hear them inside. They sound so knowledgable in the sanctuary of your mind, they seem so right in your room, yet when dared to be spoken aloud, sound immature, naive, idealistic, just... wrong.

As much as I wished otherwise, I had no God-given gift that would wonder the world. I had no farm, no mysterious attics and no deep family secret to draw on for inspiration. Books were more exciting that the mundane drudgery of reality. It was much more sensible to keep dreams as just that, dreams.

You can live a whole life, several lives, through your imagination and through books. It's safer that way.

DontstepontheMomeRaths Sun 18-Aug-13 08:55:14

Hi wolf, I would trust your instincts here. You know your child and can pick up on how they feel. Perhaps limit your time there or arrange activities out places with them and your DC to dilute things?

I do think if you verbalised it, it would be minimised. I would make it clear that the DC need time to just be. And continue to step in, if it gets too much for them. And if things do not improve, then you may need to reconsider how the DC see your Mum without your Dad. Which is what I now do.

My Dad was a bully growing up. I don't see him now after he hit my child to discipline them without my authority. Unacceptable. And he had a huge outburst at me and threatened me when I first begun to limit contact with my parents.

It's very difficult.

Maybeamug Sun 18-Aug-13 09:09:06

Thank you Hissy. It sounds daft but I grew up feeling like I was completely unimportant to everyone in my family. I had intense sibling jealousy for many many years which made me feel awful and like a nasty horrible immature person but I understand now that it probably stemmed from being completely outshone by my sibling and hearing nothing but praise for them and criticism for me.

I'm now scared that if I have second child (I'd like to stick at one or have 3, but a series of miscarriages means that I feel I should be grateful for anything that comes along) this will all replicate itself in the next generation sad

Spiritedwolf Sun 18-Aug-13 09:14:37

Ice Cup, I spent my childhood reading too grin

I was constantly told off for reading and being "anti-social" for say reading at the breakfast table or for reading to my brother in his bedroom rather than encouraging him to go out and play (so we went outside to read, problem solved grin.

pumpkinsweetie Sun 18-Aug-13 09:14:58

I'm with dont here wolf, trust what you feel. Before going non-contact my fil was very much like your df wolf, fil dropped mil off to ours in the car, she would stay a few hours and he would come back to collect mil. But he would stay 30-40 mins and in that time did nothing but tickle, until there was no tickle left, he would then put his foot out to trip them up & deny it when i broched it with dh & mil, he would call my dd2 a boy whilst tickling her again & again until she couldn't take it no more and got rather upset- I would then get the girls up for a bath just to take them from the situation. My dc, all 4 of them were constantly wound up by him, so much so i was left with upset children on many occasion. This was one of the many reasons for non-contact also.

In all these times of winding up, mil would just sit on in my armchair making excuses for him as would dh.
My dc were treated almost like wind up toys. There is tickling and games then there is a point a grown up should stop, fil always went beyond this. When a child stops laughing it is no longer a game, when it goes beyond this it's nothing but bullying.

pumpkinsweetie Sun 18-Aug-13 09:22:10

And fil had a blowing up tendancy also if he was challenged on his behaviour, he would shout and stomp and even walked out my house slamming the door on occasion.

Same with mothers day, one year he turned up at my home just to shout, swear and stomp because he assumed dh hadn't bought mil a present. When i explained to him that we infact had, he would not listen, he just went into a tyrade of verball abuse about how he never wants to "see my fffin dc again as dh treats mil like shit". At that point i told him to get the hell out of my house, he stormed out crying woh is me. One visit to mils after that and i was done with the whole family, apart from one visit this year.

Spiritedwolf Sun 18-Aug-13 09:49:53

Thanks DontStep xx

I guess I just have to trust my feelings and act upon them rather than wait for him to see that he's doing something wrong. I suppose it doesn't matter if he thinks I'm being unreasonable. You are right about the minimising. I just have to stop "freezing" when my dad makes me uncomfortable, and remember that I'm an adult who can say "I think he's had enough" and pick him up or just decide its time for a nappy change/drink/snack/lets go play outside/go see your uncle/etc.

If dad thinks I'm being precious, or unfair or annoying him it shouldn't matter to me anymore. It's just been ingrained into me to put up with this stuff I think. I always used to freeze when he went off on one when I was younger too, I just waited till he stopped.

Might try timing my visits when I know he's likely to be out as well. Thanks. I just felt so powerless. But if there are a whole roomful of people not calling me dad out on his behaviour, it is so difficult to be the person to mention it. That's changing though, my sister made a few comments along the lines of "he's just a little boy" and "poor thing he's not allowed to touch anything" and gave him something he could play with. I was pleasantly surprised because as children I rarely found her to be an ally. Often she was doing a lot of the teasing herself.

Guess we are growing up!

Spiritedwolf Sun 18-Aug-13 10:08:52

Thanks PumpkinSweetie, sorry about your experiences but I'm glad someone else understands that it isn't all just fun and games. Its not his god given right to wind them up without being sensitive to their feelings.

Its easy to see that shouting is bullying, its harder to be sure of your feelings when the person is "being fun" in a domineering way.

Hissy Sun 18-Aug-13 11:06:16

There is no competition between your dC and your sister, often even abusive people are lovely to others, just their victim that cops it.

Your family are all minimising things. Because that's what they did whjen he was doing it to you/them.

Now you're a parent, you can see it's wrong.

Go with your instincts, and if he blows up, ever, tell him to stfu and leave.

Don't tolerate bullying.

GoodtoBetter Sun 18-Aug-13 15:59:33

So, she really WAS on her best behaviour. Apologised profusely for the PA bullshit, "I'll have to go into a home in the UK, I'm in the pits of hell, I can't cope here" phone call. But turns it round a bit and minimises, changes details of it, for example she said one of the reasons she was so upset was that the shower was broken and she thought she would be without a shower for weeks, but she told me on the phone that the other shower was fine. It was all a dig and an attempt to make me feel bad for going away because the "going into a home" thing is a total non sequiter (sp) to "I can't afford to move back to the UK" because if she can't afford to buy she can't afford an old people's home either.
Anyway, it was all sweetness and light and apologies and bought some plants for DS. V impressed with DD's new words since she's seen her etc etc. But it all smacked a bit to me of the smothering again. We were talking about how I'd enjoyed the work I did in July and I'd be keen to do it again as the money comes in handy and she said, "but G2B, if you need the money you know I'll give it to you". I said not to worry and thank you for the offer, but NO FUCKING WAY am I touching that with a barge pole. Can you imagine? She'd have a field day with throwing that one in my face!

And, do you know, she has seen DH once I think, or twice maybe since we moved and she never ever asks about him, had bugger all to say to him when she did see him and has never once apologised for what she said to him, about him. This about the man she used to say she saw as "another son" sad

So we're back in the pattern of she throws a wobbly, I ignore it and use my platitudes "hmm yes, that's a shame" etc. She doesn't get anywhere, gets fed up, apologises and tries a bit harder for a while.

It's tiring. Still, look how far we've come smile

Hope everyone else is OK. Namechange how are you? Will post on your other thread too. xx

pumpkinsweetie Sun 18-Aug-13 20:37:17

Glad it was better than expected goodsmile

Oh just when i thought things were silent on the il front, i get a private message on facebook asking "is there any chance the dc can come to mine as Aunty ** before she goes back home" We are Non contact, what part doesn't she get and whats more never ever are my dc setting foot in mil home where that man (fil) lives. Grrrr why can't aunt flipping * make her own arrangements to see my dc fgs. The same aunt that git involved at xmas sticking her foot in about me going nc.

What should i do?

GoodtoBetter Sun 18-Aug-13 22:25:27

If you are NC, I would ignore, like you say, Auntie can make her own arrangements if she's that keen.

pumpkinsweetie Sun 18-Aug-13 23:01:49

Thankyou good, that was my thoughts straight away, so far i have ignored it and hoping to continue ignoring it unless dh hears about it. Then of course i will tell him the same, aunty wants to see dc she can provide her own message/phonecall on the matter.

Fwiw this aunt wanted to see dc at christmas but went through mil again then too, i told her she was welcome at ours if she wanted to see dc. She chose to harrass dh by text and also said if mil can't see them then neither can she. Survace to say she missed out and after bombarding dh with such nonsense i have began to realise she's just like the restconfused

Never liked that woman anyway, comes down a few times a year, stays at mils and helps mil with her "woh is me". It's like banging my head against a brick wall...

Hissy Tue 20-Aug-13 07:42:46

Well done G2B AND pumpkin!

Both of you have seen through the crap, and come out of it the other side!

I emailed my mother calmly expressing my bewilderment at her decision to move and exclude me from all details.

She replied with a torrent of emotional blackmail.

'I'm in tears as your mother'

Erm, what? That doesn't make sense on ANY level.

She told an out of out lie, saying i'd not mentioned her move the last time I saw her. I called that out there and then and restated the bald facts.

I also said clearly not to try to emotionally blackmail me.

These people have no idea how far i've come, do they? They just expect downtrodden naïve, trusting little ol' me to just keep taking it don't they?

I suppose the thing is, they're used to dishing out this stuff, and they are used to me taking it.

They probably don't even know they are doing this, and certainly no clue as to why.

The only one that's changed here is me, and they don't know how to change themselves.

There's no hope for this relationship, is there?

spanky2 Tue 20-Aug-13 09:27:31

It so hard to realise that you don't want to put up with it anymore and they won't change . I still am trying to come to terms with not seeing them anymore . I am going to clean the house to make myself feel better !

NameChangeToGo Tue 20-Aug-13 09:36:36

Hi good I'm mostly enjoying the peace still, thanks for asking! I'm impressed at how well you're handling your mum. Does it feel any lighter now that she no longer lives with you?

hissy I don't mean to put words into your mouth but do you find that the wish for a normal family relationship can set you back sometimes? You sound like you're taking no shit from them but that it's not yet making you happy.

Hope everyone's feeling ok.

pumpkinsweetie Tue 20-Aug-13 10:13:31

Must be so hard hissy, it's bad enough being the dil of narcs but to be a daughter must be awful as it must be hard when you love someone no matter how toxic they are.

I wouldn't say i have quite come out the otherside, once dh gets to the stage some on here have that will be when i have completely come through. Birthdays & christmas are the main events that draw up problems between me & dh, mils is the end of this month and i assume the "woh is me" will start up 0 by then normally leading dh to become moody and sullen as he knows i will say no to any demands.

Well aunty * still hasn't contacted us over visiting the dc so i assume it was more of the "woh is me" grusome twosome than aunt actually wanting to see the dc. I still haven't replied to mil fb message & i have no intentions of doing so. Dh did have a text of mil to which i said to him if aunt really wants to see dc she will ask herself can't she. Dh seems to have handled it well so far.....

Still undecided on what to do at christmas tbh, will a one off visit before christmas stave of ils for christmas day/boxing day or will it make a situation out of nothing? Or do i keep completely non contact over christmas knowing dh will have ramped up harassment over xmas? Or will the harassment happen either way. I know it's early to be think and maybe over anylyzing things but i will be not long due my baby by then so need the arrangment in place which will cause me less stress at the time.

pumpkinsweetie Tue 20-Aug-13 10:13:57

haven't come out

Hissy Tue 20-Aug-13 15:12:28

NameChangeToGo exactly right.

I'm right, I know I am. Everyone agrees I am, all we read and see in the big wide world tells me i'm right, but being right doesn't feel right.

And being right doesn't make THEM any different. No matter how hard I wish it.

It's just bloody awful, excruciating tbh.

NameChangeToGo Tue 20-Aug-13 16:34:36

Our situations are pretty different but I can see myself in what you write.
Family is so important to me, I'm surrounded by friends who have supportive and loving families, and a mum who says she loves me (its not as simple as that, but the words are there, and often).

So I find it very hard to let go of the longing for the mother figure I see my friends experience, particularly as I think my mum thinks she is one, iyswim. So there's a niggling feeling that I'm just creating the drama in my own head and that next time will be better.

I don't know if that makes any sense.

GoodtoBetter Tue 20-Aug-13 16:41:17

I know what you mean Name when my mum's on her best behaviour I sort of forget the side of herself she's shown. It's hard as we used to be close, I just thought she was a bit clingy, but the last few years and especially since xmas have shown me she's not on my side. Can't get it down right, but I understand. The world's changed and it can't go bacj. Which is good but sad.

Pawprint Tue 20-Aug-13 16:49:20

I love my parents but see their faults. All parents have faults and I am no different. However, there are some memories from my childhood that still disturb me, even though I am now in my 40s.

I didn't get on very well with my mum until I left home aged 17. She was depressed during my childhood but not treated for her illness. I don't remember her smiling or laughing much. Apparently, I behaved appallingly as a toddler and refused to use my potty just to annoy her. I was a disturbed child - my little sister (I wasn't even two years old when she was born) was very ill after being born and left with severe disabilities (she died of a long illness when she was 32 years).

For reasons I don't quite understand, my sis went to live with my grannie (over 300 miles away) when our little brother was born. The arrangement was that she live there for six weeks until my mum was better able to cope with three children (one disabled) under the age of four year. In fact, my sis stayed there until a few years before her death. When my sis was about nine, we moved to a house two miles away from Grannie's but sis didn't move in with us as she was happy where she was.

My mum's depression and worries over my sis (Grannie was a controlling woman and didn't want dsis to live away from her) took over life. She was given to getting very angry and would slap me around the face quite regularly. She seemed to think this was a proper punishment for a teenage girl who was, after all, too old for a spanked bottom. She would threaten to slap me and I was frightened of this as it really stung when she hit me. I remember, on one occasion, begging her not to hurt me but she just came at me, fists flying. She never apologised or came to see if I was okay, even if I had her handprint on my cheek for hours afterwards. Looking back, I wish I had confided in a teacher...

My dad has always had a short fuse and a very bad temper. I grew up thinking this was normal but clearly it wasn't. He would explode in anger and throw glasses of water over me etc. I have bipolar and suspect he has it too.

Now that I am an adult, with a family of my own, I can see that life was difficult for my parents. My dad worked abroad a lot and my mum had a lot to cope with. My dsis became very ill when she was about 11 and was ill for most of her life. She spent a lot of time in hospital and had behavioural problems - tantrums, obsessions and so on. Not her fault, but very difficult to deal with.

Last year, I went to stay with my parents. My father was awful - made nasty remarks about my parenting methods and blew up at me because I'd accidentally left a light on.

One morning, whilst staying with my parents, I went down to make some toast and set the fire alarm off. Dad came storming downstairs, screamed at me and pushed me out of his way. I was appalled and very upset. He has a cutting, dismissive way with words and I don't know why my mum puts up with it.

Now, they are doting grandparents to my son and, in other ways, are very kind to me and have supported me re. the bipolar etc.

What has caused me worry, in the past, is that I have inherited my dad's filthy temper and tendency to snap. My dh made it clear that he wouldn't tolerate being shouted at etc so I learned to stop. I am much calmer these days and am aware that my dad's behaviour wasn't acceptable.

I don't think my parents are narcissists, but I am still haunted by the past. Sorry this got long.

pumpkinsweetie Thu 22-Aug-13 11:36:18

My lord i feel like smashing the landline up, bloody mil keeps on ringing it and ringing it. Dh is ignoring her too as i told him too.

What part of ignoring her doesn't she get, hasn't she figured out that aunt can make her own arrangments grrr.

For one day today i put a status on fb, explaining i was having a day in with dcs and thought not to hide it from ils- wish i had now because she obviously knows i'm in hence the phonecalls.

Dh is acting odd just like he used to, moody & withdrawn and i can only guess why. Sick of that family, what they do to him, i and us. Just wish they would piss off.

AttilaTheMeerkat Thu 22-Aug-13 11:56:48

What your MIL is doing could well amount to harassment. I would make a note of all the times she is phoning you and take action.

I would at the very least block her number from your phone and use BTs choose to refuse service. Again a discreet word with a Solicitor may be useful.

Again your DH cannot or refuses to see (both scenarios are equally likely as denial is a powerful force) the damage that they his birth family are doing to you his own family unit now. He always also goes quiet as well, that is his default defence coping mechanism.

AttilaTheMeerkat Thu 22-Aug-13 11:57:56

Would stay off FB as well; it is a useful tool for dysfunctional parents like your H's are.

I would seriously consider deleting your account from FB altogether; it is more trouble than it is worth.

GoodtoBetter Thu 22-Aug-13 12:02:48

I think you need to delete FB or block them and block them on landline or change the number. They can call DH on a mobile if he's not NC with them.

pumpkinsweetie Thu 22-Aug-13 12:20:50

Thankyou, have worked out how to put my landline phone on silent for now but obviously that isn't a longterm solution as we could be expecting calls from others. I pretty much doubt dh will agree to changing phonenumber due to this reason but due to many nuisence calls from operators we get u may be able to sway him. But then there is still the possibility of him giving out our new number to herconfused

I really don't want to delete my fb account but i will start hiding everything from her as i don't think it's good for her to be having any insight into my daily activities.

Dh is out at present, and i do hope he has kept up with ignoring her as i cannot stand the aftermath when he is under the fog, not to mention he has my 7yo dd with him and none of this is good for her.

It's mil birthday very soon, just over a week away, this is only going to get worse. I must learn to ignore, ignore then ignore again and not allow it to get to me.

GoodtoBetter Thu 22-Aug-13 15:04:42

Can you block her number or get an answerphone and screen the calls.

pumpkinsweetie Thu 22-Aug-13 16:44:34

Could do better and thats next on the list if this continues!

She tried to phone dh 4 times on his mobile today, and 3 times on the landline that i know of that's 7 times. Either someone is dead or she's up to something aggggaaaaiiiin. Wonder which it is confused

Thing is she isn't one for phoning for a normal conversation, never has been. It's always woh is me, can i this, can i that and due to aunt being down i assume it would have been woh is me, and poor aunt not being able to see the children.

The aunt that couldn't keep her beak out at christmas, the aunt that spends whole days & nights with mil to ridicule my bil re dhs sisters husband, slagging him off as he likes a drink now & then & because he is unemployed, when quite simply sil could get off her arse too but of course she is golden. The aunt that pinchs my pfbs cheeks and puts her hand round her mouth as a 'joke'! And who bought my pfb boys pants one year because my dd was a tomboy at 3!

I am glad i don't go round mil anymore, having to listen to the constant moaning on about bil whilst he wasn't there to defend himself. Sil was even there once, but she just let them carry onshock. I have always wondered what they say about me nowhmm

I still remember when sils baby was born premature and we had gone round mil for dinner. The entire time we was there she proceeded to tell me that the baby was ugly like it's father and she hopes her looks change in timeshock and oh and of course the normal moan about her baby being another girlshock
Nevermind that her grandchild was in hospital being fed through a tube and on breathing apparatus. I still remember visiting my niece and my bil told me he was made to cook dinner round mil because they cba to do it!
It was the one time i had respect for sil having a premmie with parents with such little respect, but sil is back in their pockets again and she causes trouble now. Think it's because mil & fil use her as a go between. But of course she is either too clouded or as toxic as they are!

Hissy Thu 22-Aug-13 19:37:46

Pumpkin, block her from FB fgs! Fundamental!

Reassure your H that his ignoring her IS the right thing to do, you know it's hard, and that he hates it, but to think of the alternative.

With mine, I have just learned Again, not to attempt to reason with the unreasonable.

I sent a calm email. Expressing my bewilderment at her choice to exclude me.

Reply was as we can all predict. sad

I hoped, again, that she'd see.

I'm a FuckingMuppet. Wonder if that NN's taken on here, cos I really deserve it!

Oh well, my intentions were good, I tried.

pumpkinsweetie Thu 22-Aug-13 19:46:46

I would block her, i did it last year but she found out and lets just say it is more trouble than it's worth.
Worked out tonight how to keep all my future posts and pictures unviewable by her and the entire inlaw clan. I put them into their own group and i'm set up to customize future post to be unseen by them. And i have now put a stop to them posting on my wall aswell as messaging grin Fb i have finally worked you out!

She has tried our landline in the last hour so it is now switched off completelygrin

I hope dh finds it within himself to keep up with ignoring her but unfortunetly that never lasts.
Got my anomanly scan tomorrow so i cannot deal with her shit right now as i'm quite nervous and not meaning to sound me me but this is my moment not hers. I shall not let her ruin it as i'm quite happy to have reached 20 weeks after my mc in feb.

Hissy Thu 22-Aug-13 19:58:10

What's the worst she can do?

The police and rhe legal system are there for a reason!

Block her, live your lives and ftfo to anyone who tries to disturb that! smile

DontstepontheMomeRaths Thu 22-Aug-13 20:56:09

Make her restricted. You can add her to that list. Much easier. Then unless you post photos or status updates with a 'public' privacy setting. She'll never see a thing new you post. Go into privacy and blocking and the restricted function is there and explains all about it and how it works. All family members of mine were restricted at one time. As I didn't want one to say to another 'oh did you see what Mome posted on fb' etc. As then they might wonder why it hasn't come up on their newsfeed.

pumpkinsweetie Thu 22-Aug-13 23:38:38

Feel so sad right now, i'm in tearssad
Dh has just had a blazing shouting match with me because i won't agree to the kids seeing mil & aunt sat.
He basically said if he leaves me, he can do what he want and take the kids round ils when he wants. Then a complete lecture asking for what his parents ever did wrong.
He won't even come to bed with me when he has been on nights all week.
I even said i'll agree to dc seeing her fri if it would make him happy but oh no wasn't good enough for him and he continued to shout somemore. I couldn't eat my dinner so went upstairs to bed alone.
He followed me shortly after and hugged me and we then went back downstairs.

But again the row started, i said how can he do this to me the night of my scan. He said he will agree to fri as he has no choice in a scarling voice. But again more moaning saying fil has changed and mil can do no wrong etc etc. He then said he will not be coming to bed with me.

Right now i hate him & i'm not even sure wtf to do. I'm so upset i told him if he isn't up here later he can leave as no real man treats a woman like this at a time like this.
He just ignored me, but before going up i said he is clouded and needs to wake up and smell the coffee before he has no-one but them.

I have said if he threatens me with leaving and taking dc to pil home new baby will not be getting his name or surname on the birth certificate so atleast one of our dc is protected.

He isn't with me on this anymore whatsoever and i think this has been leading up to this for a whilesad
His withdrawn and unhappy moods obviously showed he had this in store for me tonight, how fucking lovely.
Sits down to watch a film and eat a nice meal and again we are back to this. I cannot stop crying, i cannot believe that again we are back where we started before one against the other and this is even after a very generous compromise on my part.

Hissy Fri 23-Aug-13 07:32:15

I think he took a call.

He's been sucked back in.

Calmly sit him down and say that Aunt has all the info she needs to make direct contact, but won't.

She prefers to engineer situations to inflame.

Ask him what's changed between last week and this week?

Tell him that it's a bad idea to make a snap decision, and you both need a couple of days to carefully consider all the aspects of this.

Compile a reasons for and reasons against list. Do this WITH your H. Remind him calmly of what brought you to want to end contact in the first place.

AttilaTheMeerkat Fri 23-Aug-13 07:37:32

What Hissy has stated in her reply; your H has been sucked back into their maelstrom of dysfunction.

Calm discussions are the way forward now.

GoodtoBetter Fri 23-Aug-13 08:11:40

I don't know what your FIL did, but your MIL sounds awful and dysfunctional, all the ringing and ignoring what you ask. And this idea that FIL will have changed, that sounds like dH has spoke to them and they've said that. (And people who need to "change" rarely do).
Good luck talking to DH. Has he read up about people like this? Maybe it would help him see them for what they are?

pumpkinsweetie Fri 23-Aug-13 08:49:52

Thankyou, yes unfortunetly i think he has been sucked insad

He eventually came to bed last night & he said sorry but i just shrugged said ok and pretended to go back to sleep. Cba with him at the moment i really cannot.

Came down he has got 2 of the dc up but is napping on the sofa, i guess in a attempt to avoid a discussion and think in his clouded way this is all for the good etc etc.

For a few days now i can't see him being calm. Whatever she has said to him, it has worked a treat, what a bitch! Checked his phone and he did indeed phone her behind my back yesterday evening whilst he was waking up for his sleep (works nights)

That's exactly what i mean though, if the need to phone her in private is needed it obviously isn't normal.

I am at my wits end with all this tbh and if i wasn't pregnant i think i would be ready to just give up if this is the way it is going to be forever.
I don't think he will ever come as far as any of you have, and i'm very unsure of the future at the moment.
January to april he was different but since may the operation to pull him in has obviously worked.

Now i suppose it's trying to get him to see the bad guy and the good guy.
But how do i do that without insulting his family at the same time?

pumpkinsweetie Fri 23-Aug-13 10:15:31

I have finally managed to speak to him, calmly for my own sanity.

I have reached a decision and i said i will meet him halfway as he said he feels stuck in the middle.

I have said i will meet him halfway.
First i am writing mil a letter to tell her the rules and what dates she may see the children with the both of us present. I have told him if she doesn't follow my letter to the exact letter ie rules etc that will be it, she fails once i will not be allowing her access to the children ever again and he has agreed.

One thing, i want to see her on neutral ground, not in my home.
No other grandkids to be bought with her. Fil is not to be seen, i don't want to even see him set foot into the cafe whatsoever. There will be one meeting at first if it goes well there will be another one in dec and after that i will decide.
She is to stay away, no harrassment, no calls, and when baby is born i will decide when she sees baby. It will not be in the first few weeks.

This way i believe i have tried everything and dh cannot turn round and say anything if this goes wrong.
I have told him i am doing it for him and him only, but i have told him in return for this i want him to start reading up about toxic parents and the fog as i want him to see for himself what his parents are.

AttilaTheMeerkat Fri 23-Aug-13 10:27:43


I wish you the very best of luck with regards to your DH.

You may want to show your H this link as well from Lightshouse:-

pumpkinsweetie Fri 23-Aug-13 10:29:51

Thankyou Atilla i will show him tonight, he is still a bit definsive about looking up toxic parents. Maybe i could word it better, but he really needs to see from himself ways of dealing with them and making his and my life better.

DontstepontheMomeRaths Fri 23-Aug-13 16:01:31

New thread for when this one is full. I'll be back later to catch up

Hissy Fri 23-Aug-13 19:12:59

Can I wave a flag for a thread on OTBT?

There's a v young girl, hideous family, hideous ex, needs support.

Her previous thread was deleted due to fears over Ex etc

Meery Fri 23-Aug-13 22:51:54

So i wrote a while ago about a spat i had with dm about us visiting her. Anyway we're here and all was quiet until today, not great but ok. Tonight decided to go into town for a bbq and dm offered to drive (even though she'd plainly had a glass or two during the day) i declined the offer and when pressed very bravely said no i don't iwant you driving my dc when over the limit.

Well it all kicked off then and i was called a bad mothe who's ruining my life (wtf) but thanks to mn i stayed calm and kept repeating no is my decision. So dh dc and i walked and dm drove.

The pettiest thing was that she didn't bring down our cutlery "to show me because id been so horrible" . So was happy for dc to go hungry because id stood up to her.

The pettiest thing was she didn't bring t

Meery Sat 24-Aug-13 02:54:20

Excuse the typos - on the phone

pumpkinsweetie Sat 24-Aug-13 10:26:39

So sorry your day didn't go well meery she sounds unhinged calling you a bad mother for such a ridiculous reason. Glad you kept your call and stood your ground by saying no!

Mil just will not leave us alone, and tbh it is getting too much now. She tried to ring dh 4 times on his mobile yesterday and my landline has been constantly switched off now since yesterday and i think it will be staying that way.

Woke up this morning to yet another fb message from her, mentioning the aunt again and why have i stopped her seeing the children and that we used to be friends. And of course the woh is me, "i have been crying" and "i can't sleep". If she missed her grandkids so much why are they only important on birthdays, celebrations or when flipping aunt shit stirrer is round fgs..

I basically replied back that i'm in the process of writing a letter and if she continues to harrass me the letter will be non applicable.

Hissy Sat 24-Aug-13 14:36:33

Meery, you refused to allow someone who had been drinking to drive your DC.

SHE had been drinking and insulted you when you said that she couldn't drive her GC.

I AM seeing a BAD MOTHER here and believe me chick, it's not YOU!

Pumpkin: as hard as it is, you have to take charge of this.

DELETE this woman from your FB. Reason? You don't allow anyone to emotionally blackmail you.

Change your home number. Reason? You don't allow anyone to harass you or your family.

Write the letter and tell her to leave you alone, this is bonkers.

Why is it that they can never see that THEY have done anything? I got a card today, Are you cross because of <something totally unrelated, that if she thought about it for a second she'd know was horseshit>?

Erm, NO. I'm pissed off cos you moved house without telling me where.

That'd be enough surely?

Card in bin, with her address/tel no. AGAIN.

I give the fuck up!

Hissy Sat 24-Aug-13 14:37:26

meant to say Pumpkin, the harassment laws are there for a reason.

if this carries on, call 101 for advice.

pumpkinsweetie Sun 25-Aug-13 08:26:49

Due to last night i will not be posting mil a letter infact everything has had a compete turn around.

Last night my dm & my dh went to a party of an old work friend. My dm got sozzled and told my dh he cannot go on treating me like this & pretty much blurted out i had been talking to her about ils. She said he needs to stop revisiting this as it won't end well and he needs to lay his past to rest etc. Things were mentioned that concerned dhs childhood, he wouldn't tell her how bad it was but went on to say he didn't want to become like his father. He then left my dm after saying he couldn't deal with it and went for a long walk in the rain & cold.

He came back late last night and he has finally opened up a little about the beatings, said it included belts and cigar burns amongst other horrid things but he said he doesn't remember much- i guess he has blocked it out. He then went on to say that he knows his parents are not good to be around the children and although hard i told him and we agreed he doesn't have to be scared anymore or be answerable to any of them & from now on it's best we ignore all calls from them.
We agreed there wouldn't ever be any contact from pil with the dc.

I know it isn't going to be easy but i think we are finally getting somewhere re standing united against them. I think he does need help with this and i know he could fail at any time but unsure of how to help him on his path? I have suggested he reads susan fords book, i'm hoping it will help him.

I have said i will not try to stop him seeing his parents but he is going to stop allowing the harrassment inbetween & have suggested if he cannot let go of seeing them he needs to have a larger gap inbetween to avoid being scared & badgered constantly.

GoodtoBetter Sun 25-Aug-13 14:50:30

Sounds good pumpkin smile

Have had a really grrr day. Will post later when I feel less likely to strangle someone with my bare hands.

NameChangeToGo Mon 09-Sep-13 20:51:09

Hi, everyone. The thread's been pretty quiet and I've been wondering how you're all getting on.

I'm having a very low day as parents left this morning, which is why I'm posting.

I feel despondent because I tried to manage this visit so carefully but it hasn't made a great deal of difference.

Again, I'm amazed at the huge negative, physical effect she has on me, without really doing anything specific. I've barely been able to function today.

The only things I can really put my finger on:

1. The uncanny way she has of responding which, in just a mm hmm, can make you feel entirely dismissed.

2. The way she can't let you finish a conversation, instead there'll be a point, usually just a sentence or so in, when she cuts you off to 'agree' with you (usually she has no actual idea of the point you were heading for, as you've barely begun). She will then relate her own vaguely linked experience without stopping for breath for the next 30 minutes until you forget what you were going to say anyway.

3. The child-like voice and singing. Her singing makes me feel sick.

4. The constant need to be the centre of attention. She answers over me when my husband and children talk to me. She cannot bear it when both my children have come to me.

5. The way she asks repeatedly whether she can do anything to help, without ever actually helping. If I give her something to do, it becomes a big drama, no matter how simple. She can sit surrounded by toys, with the toy box right there, and ask if there's anything she can do, without making any move to just stick some toys in the box, while I'm rushing around like a mad woman. But of course, she's always offering, so it's presumably my fault that she just sits there like a princess.

6. She talks crap. Translated as, she lies. And gets really pissy if you pick her up on it.

7. She doesn't like me. I don't fit the mould for the daughter she imagined. It feels as if we're opposing magnets, with that constant feeling of pushing each other away no matter how close we try to get.

Uuuuuuuuuuurgh sad

DontstepontheMomeRaths Mon 09-Sep-13 21:30:27

People have moved to the new thread, even thought this one wasn't quite full:

Sorry to confuse things.

NameChangeToGo Mon 09-Sep-13 22:04:09

Ahhhh... Thanks smile

scrunchy Tue 12-Nov-13 02:17:54

i am new reason for posting is i believe my mother is a narcissist who has spent my life damaging me.i was adopted at 11months and spemt my childhood being taken to counsellors ,therapsits ,psychiatrists,all in an effort my my mother to get me diagnosed with something,a label.i remember a family therapy session when i was about 7/8 where all the family were told to tell me how my behaviour affected the,,my sisters said i ruined behavoiur was tantrums,not doing what my mother wanted,she hot me frequently,only lately i have realised that actually this did not go on in all families as i had believed.
she always used my adoption to make me feel that i was damaged and needed to be my teenage years i was bullied dreadfully,and discovered boys,i used to stay out all night weeks as a time partying.her solution was to take me an adoptee to a nun counsellor in a magdalen laundry convent.
by 16 i asked to be sent into care.just to breathe.i was thrown out for going out at night literally thrown onto the road with my clothes and had to move back to my parents i went.briefly.i met my now dh a few weeks later moved in with him a week after meeting him.i was 17.i am 33 now.more in between but whats triggered me to post now was a phone call last week.she drew up adoption ,an emotive topic and just casually mentioned that i was the result of rape.then she asked if i thought the father was a family member.(i met my birth mum at 19 she died of cancer a few weeks later ,she had a learning disability and i was young and afarid to rock boat )
i am in the process of revelation about her right now and what poison she is.i have booked a counsellor for this week.but what i am dealing with at this moment is the fact that my whole life she has scapegoated me,.made me the bad one,the one with problems,when she is the problem.the guilt draws me back in,if 2 weeks pass i feel guilt and visit .inevitably to be belittled in some way.i have a ton of examples of her narcissim but right now im dealing with her bombshell and the way she did it with no compassion for me at all,knowing i have to see my birth uncles in my town.

Scrummummy Fri 29-Nov-13 22:14:02

Not sibling but my cousin and I were treated differently by my mum and dad. Growing up they'd easily spend the same on presents for each of us as her DF had a low paid job and my F had a better one "it wasnt fair that she didnt get a CD player (for example) if I had one " ?? We lived 4/5 hours from them so saw them every few months. As we were only 3 month apart and are a similar build she was allowed to take any of my clothes she liked when she visited which as a teenager infuriated me as I had a weekend job so the fashionable clothes she'd steal I have actually bought with MY MONEY but i couldnt complain as its not her fault she couldnt be arsed to get a job as it was beneath her angry I also got told how clever she was and how she could do anything, unlike me who was obviously too thick to do anything! HA HA when we got our GCSE results and I did much better something must have gone wrong with hers maybe the examiner didnt read it properly!! angry
Same with A'levels and Uni, she's still brighter than me apparently even though I have a MA and shit loads of professional qualifications.
Weddings- they payed for mine though we did offer but it was my parents wedding as we had no input except we were allowed 2 guests each??it was a v small wedding 40 people lunch do nothing in the evening whole other thread They also paid for my cousins wedding for 300!! Her DH is from africa so they actually paid for his family to come over!!WTF?
Any way the 2nd last straw was a couple of years ago I had BX cancer and we had to do everything ourselves wouldnt come and look after our DDs so I could have my DH with me for Chemo, had to go alone, wonderful, because on a couple of dates she was having lunch with my cousin who lives 1 hour away( where as we are 2 hours away).
Final straw I needed to quit chemo as the housing benefit we got didnt cover our rent and as my DH had to go back to work as our LL hwas threatening to throw us out, we asked to borrow some money to pay off LL about £1000 so I could do my last treatment and my DH could start working about 3 weeks later all prearranged with his new company. They refused, we said ok, no money could you come and stay for 4 days to look after DDs answer NO. WHY they were helping my cousin move into her new house that they had lent her £30K for her deposit!!! needless to say I am NC with all of them

Scrummummy Fri 29-Nov-13 22:15:12

sorry this was posted on unfair sibling thread but now seems more suitable for stately homes

artemis23 Thu 26-Dec-13 22:32:19

hi, just posted a big long thread but cant find where it went, sorry am new to the forum!

Smokinmirrors Sun 23-Mar-14 22:33:23

Just spoke to my father about how my brother abused me. And mum forced me to have an abortion.

He was silent to the point of me 'hello are you there' then I heard my psycho mother come into the room in the background and all hell broke lose -

Not because he's surprised at what I said, but because he knows about it all including abortion and sanctioned it. To my face.

But because he 'loves her (mummy/wife) so much' and doesn't want the hissing bitch to be upset with him at any cost, or for me to remind her that he felt my breasts when she wasn't looking, he turns into a whimpering twat .

So they are fighting over the phone, him saying 'we are old people tell her to go away' and mother hissing saying 'I will tell you about my abortions but they meant nothing to me'.

Dad, whimpering in the background: 'it's all in the past'

I say I'm having counselling... so he goes all bawling his eyes out saying 'she will tell this all to the counsellor' bleurhg bleurgh.

Mother put phone down on me.

No wonder I like a nice cup of tea

BouncyBabe98 Fri 04-Apr-14 15:30:42

Hi all, I originally posted my story in another thread but wanted to share on here also.

Hi, not sure if my mother is toxic or if I am just being oversensitive but I feel deeply hurt and at a loss over my relationship with my mother. I just want to tell someone what's been bothering me.

* Thought I would dump this at the front as i think its my main issue now - Now that I myself a mother I find myself feeling so inadequate and resentful when I hear other mothers talking about the help and support they are getting from their mothers and how happy they are to see them. I feel like I could have that from my mother but it seems like she doesn't want to try sometimes - i just wish i knew how to please her!*

1) Me and my partner decided to get married when i was pregnant with DC1. I wish i had never let my mother help with the wedding. I thought she would be supportive but all she seemed to do was tell me how things 'should be' / 'what was normal' for a wedding. She queried my decisions a lot. I wish I could have stood up to her but at the time I felt like I couldn't say anything as she was paying for the reception and I like to believe she means well. I have never dreamed of a big wedding that much but for me it often felt like was her dream/ideas not mine.

1a) when trying to discuss my feelings of depression: (have been seen a counselor since...obviously)

'not you as well!' (that was the end of that convo)

2) Comments during pregnancy: 'you shouldn't put on anymore weight' (I only put on 28 - 30 pounds in total!!) 'you are being too organized' (its not like she was offering to come down and help buy baby stuff - was I meant to get nothing?!)

3) When I was in hospital being induced (2nd day not much luck) I phoned her in tears and begged her to come down (stupid me!). She acted/made me feel like I was weak for asking her - her comments were something along the lines of 'if you really need me i suppose i could, will need to be back for something though'.

4) recent comments (despite me confiding in her about my anxieties/not having a job atm) - 'if you even have a brain anymore!' (sarcastically)

General stuff - I feel like I can't tell her anything without her taking over. eg, I will mention that I am thinking of getting the train somewhere and she will be emailing 5 mins later with all different options or telling me what is the 'right way' to go. This is sweet I know, but sometimes I would just like to workout on my own!

My sister suffered serious health problems (anorexia) as a teen/adult and I think that must have stressed out my mum. I won't even start to mention some of the things she has apparently said to my sister though - hurtful doesn't even cover it!

Other info - I think alot of my moans stem from unresolved issues (I have seen a counselor which has helped somewhat). My mum told me when I was 18 that 'if I didn't go to uni I would have to move out as she was waiting to leave my dad'. She became the main breadwinner when I was very young and she seemed really unhappy about that. I do feel sorry for her for that.

When I was experiencing problems adjusting to uni life she made it clear I was not welcome back at home. My father on the other hand was a lot more supportive.

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