Staying strong - words of advice/handholding please??

[snowshapes]

previous thread

Sorry, it is me again. This was my previous thread about H, who I initiated a separation from last month. We just had a conversation, because he wanted to come to the house to see DS, and I wanted him to meet DS somewhere else. He doesn't live in the same city, so this is hard. Anyway, this got into a conversation about how I have changed, and then into the whys and wherefores about the whole relationship breakdown.

Apparently I am imagining things he said, I am lying about things, he can't trust me, he shouldn't have trusted me when we got married, he doesn't understand, I have changed, I am not the person I was a year ago, and oh, we are not separating, I may be separating from him, but he is not separating from me, etc etc etc.

I said I didn't want to be kissed or touched tomorrow, just to make that clear, and he seriously said 'Do you know who you are talking to?' - WTF? - and then went on about not understanding what I was saying. I said it was perfectly clear, he should not touch me against my will, he said I was making it sound like a criminal offence, I said that is because it is a criminal offence.

And then some more stuff about how I am ripping apart a family.

Yes, I know I should have ended the conversation, I did keep saying that the marriage was over. I know he doesn't need to understand, but really, I know I didn't imagine things, everything I try to explain is somehow either wrong or turned back to me - I mean, why does he still want to be with me then?? Am I making a mistake? Have I got it all so badly wrong?

I don't think I have. But honestly, he is painting me as completely unhinged (and making me feel it)

[dondon33]

I haven't read your prev thread yet but ((offers hand to hold))

[freddiemisagreatshag]

I haven't read your thread (will do now) but in the meantime, have a hand.

And the knowledge that me and loads more mnetters don't think you're unhinged as we've been there too. It's a common common way for this type of man to operate.

[MarinaIvy]

Hand hold here, too. Gonna go read the previous thread, but you just hold on: the MN Cavalry are on their way!

[Dryjuice25]

Sorry haven't read prev thread either

Stick to your guns. He sounds like an idiot.

" Do you know who you're talking to?" Do you think he is unhinged and dangerous? Does he have a history of violence? That is very scary and threatening as it implies you ought to watch your mouth with him or otherwise.....(fill in gap as appropriate)

Does he have a legal right to the house?

He can't force himself on you. He is an almighty twat.

[MarilynValentine]

Stay strong, stick to your guns. Don't let him manipulate you any more.

Just take a position where you don't care (even if you do care, focus your mind on not caring) about what he says or how he tries to warp things - stay with your truth, be civil and calm, if he tries to touch you without your permission tell him you will call the police.

You know your position and your truth. Stay with it, don't be drawn in. You don't have to justify yourself any more. Repeat, "the relationship wasn't working for me and is now over " if you need to.

All you need to discuss is arrangements for your DC now. And that within reason.

Good luck.

[freddiemisagreatshag]

Right I have read your other thread very quickly. FWIW here's my advice

Don't talk to him on the phone - email or text only. Less opportunity for him to browbeat/guilt trip you. You are not obliged to talk to him about anything except your DS. Keep emails factual - as agreed you will pick DS up at 6pm and return him at 10am tomorrow, for example.

Get the Lundy Bancroft book "why does he do that"

He's gaslighting you, painting you as the bad guy and him as the innocent party. My ex did that too. I literally thought I was going insane (so wish I'd had MN then I'd have got some great advice)

Don't let him in the door, do a handover at the door.

If you wanted to end the marriage, you're perfectly entitled to for whatever reason you choose. No one has to stay in a marriage that is making them miserable. You matter, your feelings matter, and if he doesn't like it well that's tough shit.

Stop trying to explain to him - he will never ever understand. He won't ever get it. He is living in his little lala land where no one else matters and he is the centre of the universe. You don't have to anymore. He doesn't care about your opinion, all he wants to do is bend you to his - don't let him. But explaining is draining, and emotionally difficult (says the person who spent an hour yesterday on the phone trying to explain to her ex and who really really needs to take her own advice)

If he touches you or pushes you into a corner or hugs or anything else - that is assault. Say NO very firmly and phone the police. Every time he does it. I know that's a scary thing to do but it's the only thing people like this understand.

And have a hand. And a cuppa. And chocolate. And wine. And a hug.

[Dryjuice25]

Have read prev thread.

It's the pushing you in the corner to kiss you that gives me the creeps that makes me want to just say please stay away from this guy, never allow him into your house for whatever reason. He is massively unhinged, has no ounce of respect, no boundaries, gaslighter, never takes responsibility for any action and basically expects you to be his "prisoner for life".

Don't feel guilty about this situation.He should

[Whocansay]

Can you not get a friend or family member to be with you for the handover / meeting? It sounds as if you need a witness to proceedings.

[snowshapes]

Thank you for taking the time to reply. My head is mush now, speaking to him I go from rational and positive to mush.

Re the pick-ups, the problem is that he doesn't have anywhere here to go with DS and says that it is not fair to be taking him out all day in the cold. I do think there is some validity to that argument, at the same time, I feel very uncomfortable with him in the house. I don't know whether to let him in and make sure I am not there, or else insist he doesn't come in (which is not fair on DS). I did wonder about asking my friend to come round, but that might be even more awkward.

It does feel like browbeating, and it does feel like he thinks that I am his for life, regardless. It is draining, trying to explain, honestly I have just come home to tidy the house, because I figure at least that will get done and I will need to catch up on work when I am focused, later this evening. He literally does have an answer for everything, and if he doesn't, I am making it up, imagining it, or lying. I am glad that I have learnt what gaslighting is, for I would really doubt my reality otherwise. Well, I was (am?), so it has an effect.

Freddie, I am sorry you are going through similar. The offer of a hand, and a cuppa, and a wine, and a hug brought tears to my eyes. This is a lonely place to be. Thank you all for the handholding.

[dondon33]

I'm back after reading.

snow keep your strength and determination. He is a bastard and you've been so brave to do what you've done.

he can't trust me, he shouldn't have trusted me when we got married
You have more right to say this to him not him to you.

we are not separating, I may be separating from him, but he is not separating from me
Really? He doesn't have even a tiny iota of choice in the matter, if it's what YOU want.
He can live in his own little fucked up fantasy but meanwhile over in the real world (yours) it is happening.

Do you know who you are talking to?
It makes him sound like a Neanderthal - it has undertones of = you are his property and he'll 'take' what he wants whether you like it or not
Seriously, I agree with others here if he tries to do anything that you don't want then call the police or at least speak to them to get it logged. it is assault.

Could you not meet at a friends house/coffee shop for the hand overs or have someone at home with you?
If not then very quickly, while you're passing ds over and he's between you tell H anything he needs to know about Ds (nappies/drinks in the bag or whatever) - once he has him safely outside, quick goodbye to ds then shut the door. On the return, keep him at the door, keep ds close to you while H tells you anything you need to know ABOUT DS - say bye bye to daddy Ds -and close the door. It's easier said than done the first few times but he'll soon get the message.

It is absolutely not your fault, it's his. You know this already. His goal is to brainwash, gaslight and bully you into A) believing his bullshit and B)taking him back.
Cut him dead, don't be drawn into conversation with him about anything other than DS and to say it's over. It's his responsibility as an adult to process the available information, accept it and find a way to deal with it - not yours.
Good luck, stay strong ((hugs))

[PeppermintPasty]

Have you had legal advice yet? If not I would strongly suggest that you get an appointment with a solicitor to see where you stand wrt the house, the children and finances. It will give you strength, knowing where you stand. It sounds to me like he thinks he owns you and that means you need to detach detach detach. Perhaps a strongly worded solicitor's letter dealing with the practical stuff might cause the penny to drop in his head.

[dondon33]

• x posted with you.
  
  So in those circumstances - ONLY if I had a friend there for the whole duration would I allow him access to the house for a few hours maybe once a week. The rest of the time he'd have to make his own arrangements. Even then it would depend on his behaviour if he tried to 'talk' argue or hang around after then I'd put a stop to it.
  Have a look at contact centres in your area too, it might be the best option.

[freddiemisagreatshag]

dondon is right. Put the wheels in motion to make the contact through a contact centre.

[snowshapes]

Thank you . Seriously, you are making me cry (in the nicest possible way), you have no idea how helpful your messages are.
Are contact centres open on Saturdays? I hadn't thought of that.

[freddiemisagreatshag]

Contact centres are indeed open on a Saturday morning (I used to volunteer in one)

[MarinaIvy]

YYFingY to: you're not wrong, it IS assult and you can/should ring the police, read Lundy Bancroft. Definitely get a witness if you can.

Adding to that:

AND keep a journal. AND record conversations (at least sound or perhaps even camera).

Head over to the EA thread: EA Support.

And what might help both the long-term/general unattaching XH in your mind AND the immediate assertiveness required (the "broken record" reference reminded me) is to try to picture XH as some slimy double-glazing salesman.

Your house needs more double-glazing? NO.
It'll add thousands to the resell ... NO
We have a one-time, limited offer for our... NO

(Want to punch me now? Good! Hold that mood).

Keep us posted! More hand-holding here, and also a .

[MrsBombastic]

Wow! There are some amazing people on this thread!

OP, I agree with everything the others have said, not much to add really, these guys are right.

At the end of the day, it is not your problem he has nowhere to go, either set up contact at a contact centre as others have suggested or tell him he can't see DS until he does have a realistic plan.

Stick to your guns, stay mad, do not explain yourself and get yourself a damn good lawyer asap!

Get a diary of everything that goes on and as the others said, only corresponde via text or email or better still through your lawyer.

And above all, do NOT let him in the house, not even when you are not there that is a seriously bad idea.

Frankly HE sounds unhinged, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him and if he doesn't actually have your address yet, don't give it to him!

I would find a local swimming pool/leisure centre,drop him off there and let him take DS swimming and for lunch then collect him there and get a taxi home pronto or go to a friends, the less this jerk knows the better. (If you don't have a contact centre).

Good luck.... and here's another hand. xxx

[hellsbellsmelons]

Oh dear - he sounds really awful.
Everyone has offered some wonderful advice here.
Please please do not let what he says to you, make you think you are to blame in any way.
In your previous post you say he was controlling. This is just how controlling people behave. Understand that it's him trying to control and do not let it get to you. Easier said than done I'm sure.
If he thought he had any kind of 'right' to kiss me or anything like, I would not let him in the door.
If you can have a friend there then that would be perfect.
Good luck and stay strong.

[snowshapes]

I have just read all your advice and kind words through again, now that I am a bit calmer. I really do appreciate your time, I know there are people on here with worse issues.

I honestly feel like some errant child, who if he tells off enough, I will start to behave. I cannot explain the very physical feeling I have that I cannot do what he wants.

I have taken legal advice. I just don't want to put too much information up here at the moment. I don't know if he knows I am on here, and I wouldn't like him to find this. I'm probably going to consult further though.

[MarinaIvy]

Good to hear snow, keep strong, and let us know how you get on.

[Lueji]

Just to hold hand and urge you to stay strong.

Don't separate, divorce.
Even if you're not doing it now, put it on the table.
You want to divorce him.

And it's his problem where he lives. Would he take dc away for the weekend instead?

And don't engage. Drop/collect and leave.
Otherwise email or texts. Ignore anything not related to DC or unreasonable.

[snowshapes]

Thank you again. I totally need to heed the advice on this thread.

After the character assassination yesterday, today he brings flowers. I told him I didn't want flowers, he says put them in the bin then. But I didn't, because it is not the flowers' fault (throwing them away seems an unnecessarily brutal action, and I am not angry, I am sad)

He stayed at the house for a couple of hours, before taking DC out. I went out. I know he was in my bedroom because something i had put out of DC reach got broken. At pick-up, DC had a soiled nappy, which was not fresh, and it is this last which is making me feel bad, because I was not there to notice it needed changing, it didn't get changed.

I got a letter from his mother too, telling me she hoped that my stress at work would improve and that I had such a wonderful family. Oh yes, I want to reply, I have wonderful children, and I have a responsibility to them, if one of them is being bullied and physically assaulted, then I have to keep them safe.

And so I am just breathing, because before Christmas I felt like I could not breathe. Tomorrow I will make a plan. One step at a time.