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In rare moments of clarity I wonder...

(55 Posts)
skatingonice Sat 12-Jan-13 13:36:41

Have NC. In rare moments of ?clarity? I wonder what I am doing here? But then I think I?m being unreasonable and should be happy with what I have as there aren?t any real problems?

Background, with DP for 12 years. No DC but joint finances and large mortgage. 2 years ago got engaged. Shortly after (1 ? 2 weeks) DP behaviour changed suddenly. Became very moody, started picking fights, being argumentative, very critical of me. All this came out of no where and was very upsetting. He started going out at night more frequently, several times a week, and where previously I would drop off / pick him up after (lived in countryside) he was now getting lifts from ?a friend?. He was also phone guarding like crazy, never done previously, and changed his FB and Phone passwords. There was more but you get the point. This drove me crazy. Eventually I accused him of having an affair and left that same night. He begged me to come back so he could explain. Returned 24 hours later (after realising I had no-where to go!) and he said he had become V good friend with girl at work and didn?t tell me as I would be jealous. Note; I have no form for jealousy and he has many female friends I have no issues with! We agreed to make a go of things but he was to be honest etc etc.

The next 6 months still not good, he was still phone guarding, still seeing her and not telling me (But maintains this wasn?t lying), she was coming to our house when I was away (I work away on regular basis), shutting down FB when I entered room, stopped coming to bed with me and started stopping up till the early hours. But I relocated to the other side of the country with work, he came with so now there was at least distance between them. He was still messaging and being secretive, he convinced me this was all in my head, I was very stressed, lost a lot of weight and started to doubt myself.

Some friends supported me I was ok and got back to good health; checked his phone ? picked it off table in front of him, he fought to get it back? and the only msg not deleted was him sending xxx to her and she replied with same. Another ?talk? and now he tells me he is helping her through a tough time as she keeps having affairs with other married men and cant talk to anyone else as they all know her DH. Showed me some of her emails which supported this. They were very sexually explicit about what she did with these other men. I told him this was not a normal exchange between friends and was told I was weird and of course it was, I?m too narrow minded and most women talk like this to their friends? he refused to stop the friendship, i told him to be more honest, tell me when they talked and to cut back on contact. Long story short she got pregnant, he lost interest, they fell out.

3 months ago, a male acquaintance of ours breaks up with his casual partner, DP now texting this girl, did her a favour that?s how he had phone number? text messages become more frequent to the point that its all night every night, the evenings I?m home and not away with work I just got totally ignored whilst he sat on his phone. This time he is honest that he is sending messages and who to. I tell him this is not on and that things cannot go down this route again, I feel stronger this time then I did before, almost detached from the whole thing. Have also told him to pull his weight around the house.

So now he?s still messaging her but in the day or once I?m in bed or out etc. I know as they use Whatsapp and I can see when he was last on line. She is the only person he messages on this. I have checked his phone twice but the message history is cleared. She has a problem where she keeps getting into relationships with married men? he is just been a friend. They are messaging several time a day, I have told him I don?t think this is respectful in the bounds of a relationship? but now hes just hiding it and I cant prove anything! Plus, I don?t think there is anything going on. He said she flirted with him but he ignored this and they just have general chit chat.

Am I being over sensitive based on what happened before. I believe there is nothing sexual going on between them. Just because this is more intense then my friendships doesn?t make it wrong? Why do I feel so conflicted?

skatingonice Sat 12-Jan-13 13:37:15

Wow, that was long! Thanks to those still with me.

joblot Sat 12-Jan-13 13:54:42

I'd say you were under not over sensitive.

What on earth is the point of a relationship with someone who is more interested in other people, specifically female, sexually incontinent cheaters?

I'm aghast that you are questioning yourself. He sounds like a gold plated cheating liar. Please stop doubting yourself he's behaving very very badly

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 12-Jan-13 13:55:20

You're not being over-sensitive, he's having an affair with this person. An affair doesn't necessarily mean a physical relationship, although it seems pretty clear that's been going on. Sexual intimacy can be achieved in lots of other ways and no... most women do NOT talk like that to their male friends or vice versa. Lovers talk that way. Given that he has withdrawn from you emotionally, become moody, picking arguments etc then I'm amazed you even question whether this was a legitimate, appropriate or acceptable friendship?

He's taking the piss.

NormaStanleyFletcher Sat 12-Jan-13 13:58:34

You are not being over sensitive

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 12-Jan-13 14:03:36

"But then I think I?m being unreasonable and should be happy with what I have as there aren?t any real problems?"

'What you have' is liar for a husband who is blatantly carrying on an affair, rubbing your nose in it, making you ill and treating you with contempt and derision. I'd say those were 'real problems' wouldn't you?

skatingonice Sat 12-Jan-13 14:10:10

It could be an emotional affair, or maybe will progess to that. I have explained the concept of this to him and he insists they are just friend. With the current one he hasnt withdrawn emotionally from me, if anything i have withdrawn from him as i recognise whats happening. He insists they are just freinds. The App they chat on shows how many messages have been sent / received since you signed up. Although they were no chat windows open i can see he has send 13500 msg since signing up (recieved 12,000 and something). This has only been since Oct... thats a hell of a lot. He does not chat to me or other mates on this app.

Thisisaeuphemism Sat 12-Jan-13 14:13:16

You need to have more moments of clarity.

He is taking the piss. Why stay with someone like this?

dequoisagitil Sat 12-Jan-13 14:17:04

You were right when you left that first time. You shouldn't have gone back.

He may be able to make all this seem reasonable or that you're paranoid most of the time, but the moments of clarity are the true picture he hasn't managed to obscure.

I think you should leave again, and never go back.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 12-Jan-13 14:19:37

He can insist all he likes but he's taking you for a fool.

skatingonice Sat 12-Jan-13 14:24:42

Well the good thing is i'm having more moments of clarity. I'm feeling stronger then i have in years and would be off like a shot if i had evidence of something. Starting to consider that i dont need evidence and that just being unhappy is good enough.

Its hard to make these decisions, i have spent my whole adult life with this person, i have no family apart from his so am giving up a lot.

Also we get on very well, have same interests, regulary do things together, i enjoy this side of the relatonship which is why i stay.

He knows something is wrong this time, i have told him in no uncertain terms i'm not happy and am considering going if we cant improve things. Guess he doesnt think i will. It has made him a bit more clingy.

izzyizin Sat 12-Jan-13 14:28:56

WTAF are you still with him?

FGS don't marry this lying twat or think of having dc with him.

dequoisagitil Sat 12-Jan-13 14:32:24

Do you know about 'sunk costs'? Someone on here has used it as an analogy before, where you put a load of money into a business that can never be recouped, but because you've already put a lot of money in, the temptation is to keep investing more to make it work.

This is the kind of scenario you have here, where you've put 12 years in, so it seems hard to walk away - but really, if the same cycle continues you're just going add more years and get not much but pain back. Do you really want to be in the same emotional place after 20 years together? It is very likely, given your history together.

You could have a different life.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 12-Jan-13 14:41:29

"He was still messaging and being secretive, he convinced me this was all in my head, I was very stressed, lost a lot of weight and started to doubt myself. "

I'm appalled by a man that not only cheats on his partner but, rather than face the music, tries to turn it back that the partner is delusional. If you're still looking for evidence/proof but ignoring the texts, the messaging, the lies, the bad behaviour... then it sounds as though you are still convinced it's all in your head. Why is that?

badinage Sat 12-Jan-13 14:50:36

I don't believe for one minute he wasn't shagging the first woman. The only reason that stopped was because you intervened and located yourselves elsewhere.

He is most definitely having an affair with this one too.

He's got no intention of being faithful and would rather persuade you that you are losing your mind than admit it.

Get rid.

Undertone Sat 12-Jan-13 14:54:53

What are you waiting for? What even more appalling thing does he need to do to make you leave? He knows he can keep doing this - there have been no consequences to his actions. Look back at your relationship over the last few years - that is how it will be, or worse, for the rest of the time you are with him.

Since when is a mortgage and a co-opted family more important than your happiness?

Is this the relationship you wanted when you were a little girl? Would the young you look at your life now and be proud of you?

He won't leave. You're convenient and you keep forgiving his behaviour. If you are ever going to have a chance to be with someone who isn't a user and a fucking cheat - you are going to have to leave him.

He is, quite simply, not good enough.

badinage Sat 12-Jan-13 14:57:32

How laughable that both these women are being painted as loose women who 'keep on having relationships with married men' and that he is setting himself up as some sort of oracle on helping 'fallen women' to realise the error of their ways..........

Whereas the truth is that he is an attached man who keeps on having affairs.

Misogynist tosser angry

skatingonice Sat 12-Jan-13 14:58:32

I like the Sunk Cost analogy. Can relate to that.

I just take people at face value, cant understand why someone would lie (i'm starting to get it now tho!). This time is odd as its like he is trying to stop making some of the mistakes he made first time:

* I know about her, and that they message regulary (tho i didnt realise quite how many msg!)
* He has shown me some of the messages "oh, X sent me this..."
* She has invite him to hers often and with two exceptions he hasnt gone (he made sure i knew that)
* She has asked him to start a regular activity with her and he has told her he would only got if i could come too (he told me about these msg)

Is he trying to make it sound reasonable so i doubt myself that its not normal (which i do...) or does he really believe he is doing nothing wrong this time?

I should have gone the first time... this time isnt as bad so it seems like if i didnt go before this isnt a big enough reason to go.

skatingonice Sat 12-Jan-13 15:01:05

badinage you sound like my friends! smile

I know he wont go, he has it good.

dequoisagitil Sat 12-Jan-13 15:03:53

But there is a big enough reason - you're unhappy and twisting yourself in knots.

That's big enough.

He has forfeited your trust. Even where he makes little steps, there are 'exceptions'. Not good enough by half.

skatingonice Sat 12-Jan-13 15:06:31

Would the young you look at your life now and be proud of you?

Yes i have built the life i would have wanted. And until recently the relationship was good too. Actually 2 years is a long time not recently is it?

Looking at it now i see what i have achieved in my life; career, house, lifestyle etc have been down to me. I'm very proud of what i have done. Maybe just need to make some slight changes... Thing is i associate my relatioship to my lifestyle, apart from my job i see myself losing everything i have worked for if i go. This is becoming less scary tho, guess i just need to get my head round it.

Undertone Sat 12-Jan-13 15:09:23

He is manipulating you and making out his behaviour is reasonable so that he gets your 'approval' to proceed.

How will it end? With you watching him fuck her as he's calling over his shoulder at you "see i told you it's ok - I'm not really fucking her - she's just in need of emotional support!"

Crass, but that's the extrapolation of what is going on in his head.

ImperialBlether Sat 12-Jan-13 15:09:40

I think that when you get out of this highly abusive situation you will look back on it as a period of madness.

OP, thank god you're not married to him and thank god you don't have children with him. He's absolutely fucking awful!

Think about it: on THIRTEEN THOUSAND AND FIVE HUNDRED occasions he has sent this woman a message. He has sent you NONE in this time.

Please, please leave this man. You have been taken to the point where you don't know right from wrong and that is his doing. You have to leave for your own sanity.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 12-Jan-13 15:10:30

"this time isnt as bad so it seems like if i didnt go before this isnt a big enough reason to go."

This is the problem with forgiving an unrepentant partner. You crush your self-esteem and lower your standards in one fell swoop. Now you don't think you can do any better and you don't think what he's doing is all that bad.... at one and the same time.

It's a trap.

Undertone Sat 12-Jan-13 15:11:17

No - proud of your relationship - not your life context.

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