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How would you feel?

(117 Posts)
SimplySad Thu 27-Dec-12 09:37:57

So, last night my partner and I were having sex....TMI alert but I was wanking him off and he was watching some porn (this has never previously been a problem as the following never happened before). The upshot is, he turned the iPad to me and said he liked this girls figure, imagine young slim/skinny women with pert boobs (me = mother of 3 with jelly belly and a stone or two over weight) but he then went on to say that he imagined a family friend would like this naked. Cue me feeling utterly crushed.

I am not daft enough to think that he doesn't ever look at other women but he brought someone from reality into our sex life and although he didn't compare our figures, I now feel like a fat unattractive lump.

Am I over reacting? How do I get past this? I actually feel like our relationship cannot be salvaged from this as I feel pretty worthless to be honest. Other than this our relationship is fine other than trivial niggles.

Help!

givemeaclue Thu 27-Dec-12 16:54:05

How is that 'having sex', its not!

SimplySad Thu 27-Dec-12 16:57:06

In my previous post, I explained that it was not the entire act hmm

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Thu 27-Dec-12 19:01:47

If you can get him to understand why you felt hurt and upset, then you can probably sort this out. But if he acts as though you're making a fuss about nothing then the relationship is in trouble because he's ignoring your feelings. Very few people like to have their noses rubbed in the fact that a sexual partner is thinking about someone else (even though plenty of people fantasize during sex, it's impolite to make it obvious) - well apart from a bloke I once shagged who had a fetish for me saying I wished he was someone else.

Offred Thu 27-Dec-12 20:49:22

See I'm interested in the not being bothered about porn while you wank him off but being very bothered about this because to me they don't seem very different things, tbh it really sounds like he has simply said out loud what he has always thought in his head about the porn he watches. Has it never occurred to you that he might want you to do this to improve his satisfaction with his sexual fantasies about other real women (because porn actresses are also real women)? It sounds as though this is a part of your sexual relationship, it seems quite degrading to you to be used like that to me, especially if actually when confronted with his real thought process you freak out. Doesn't sound mutually satisfying or particularly respectful or consenting to me.

HandbagCrab Thu 27-Dec-12 21:40:01

Hmm. Imagine If you were watching attractive men being attractive on your iPad whilst your dp was touching you would you look down and go 'this bloke off Miranda looks like Jeff's son. I think he's bloody gorgeous and I'd do him in a heartbeat'. Would you do this to him? If not, why?

Real people don't look like people in entertainment generally and it would be crude and disrespectful to comment on how wonderful and sexy another person is (either a person you know or an actor or porn star) when being intimate IMHO.

Also, I'm pretty glad wanking dh off whilst he gawps at iPad porn isn't part of my nightly repertoire! Tbh I'd be knocking that on the head as it is grim, unsexy, unloving etc etc. What thoughts run through your head when you're doing it?

dequoisagitil Thu 27-Dec-12 21:47:33

The only way I can see it as a sexy thang is if you're role-playing. Which is fine, but obviously what he said crossed a role-playing line and suggests he isn't role-playing.

zippey Thu 27-Dec-12 22:10:12

I think the porn is a red herring also, and I think you were right to feel crushed. Its like him saying I dont find you attractive, and I find this figure, and this family friend attractive. You are right to feel crushed, especially in the moment of an intimate act.

You are not over-reacting, and getting past this depends on things which you havent said yet - like how long have you been together, has he said or done inseneivie things like this previously, do you have children together, mortgage, etc. If you have no ties then it will be easier to let the relationship end. However, it also depends on how much you want your relationship to continue as well.

Also, there are people here who will want to derail your thread because of the mention of porn. If you're happy to use porn, thats fine, theres nothing wrong with porn.

The best thing to do would be to talk to him and discuss what happens next.

Offred Thu 27-Dec-12 22:24:42

Ok, so how is the porn different?

SimplySad Thu 27-Dec-12 22:52:35

Zippey, your post sums up how I feel about it. We've been together nearly 3 years, no kids together (I have 3), not married/mortgaged but do live together.

I have emailed him and we will talk when he returns. (He is working and away with his brother until Sunday.)

We will see...

SorryMyCandyCaneLollipop Thu 27-Dec-12 22:56:31

I would feel devastated, sad and I would never want to trust him or be intimate with him again.

(My personal feelings about wanking him while he watched porn are that I would feel sad, lonely and unloved - I know you didn't ask this question but it is certainly not something that most women would be happy doing. Where is the connection? Intimacy? How does he meet your needs sexually?)

Offred Thu 27-Dec-12 23:01:45

Ok, but how is the porn wank a different problem to what he said whilst being wanked off to porn exactly? Why is one thing unconcerning and the other fine?

This isn't about my feelings about porn, I don't really care about cheating or being compared to other people or dh finding other people attractive. Porn bothers me personally for reasons other than that.

What I don't get is this thing where it seems to be ok for your DP to do something and think something but not say it out loud to you because that devastates you. So I think either you aren't actually ok with the truth of the porn wanking or you are being a bit unfair to your DP by arbitrarily drawing boundaries without him understanding where they are, why would he realise doing and thinking is ok but saying isn't?

SorryMyCandyCaneLollipop Thu 27-Dec-12 23:06:16

Offred I know what you're saying, other people were already "invited" in via the ipad/porn use. Maybe the OP is upset because he mentioned someone who they know socially (and compared OP to her unfavourably), so that flipped it from fantasy to reality? Now she sees that there is a "real" person who they both know who could be an actual threat to OP

Offred Thu 27-Dec-12 23:10:18

Yeah maybe but I find it very uncomfortable that anyone might see porn actresses as not real women. I was also alluding to the fact that he has probably been drawing comparisons in his porn fantasies to real women all along just she didn't know. I'd actually feel this indicated he might be a nicer person because a sexual fantasy being about a person is clearly of some importance to him sexually...

dequoisagitil Thu 27-Dec-12 23:10:36

That he noticed you were upset suggests he gives a shit, 'though.

Maybe the friendly banter about sexy people got blurred, and he thought of you more as a buddy than a partner in that moment. What you were doing doesn't sound intimate, but functional, iyswim?

How he treats you the rest of the time will give you an answer.

Offred Thu 27-Dec-12 23:12:02

I think it is a bit creepy when people get off on images of bodies performing sex acts and either do not require or want those bodies to be seen as people and human.

SorryMyCandyCaneLollipop Thu 27-Dec-12 23:14:08

Offred I agree, sadly I think that is the appeal of porn for many people

Offred Thu 27-Dec-12 23:14:19

But then SGB's theory about him saying it to degrade you because that's what he gets off on could equally be true...

SimplySad Thu 27-Dec-12 23:33:04

I do see porn actresses as real people but liken them to his feelings for Kate Moss (who is definitely thinner, slimmer, prettier etc than me). They are untouchables. The person who he mentioned is not untouchable, she is at every family gathering and he see's her socially in between. I am not at all concerned that he would have a fling with her, I don't know what it is but it just doesn't sit comfortably with me.

And dequoisagitil, it was definitely more functional than intimate; we had done the intimate thing but I have sciatica and could not continue (I wanted to as I went away for Christmas and he was going away), hence the wank.

Offred Fri 28-Dec-12 00:00:45

I'm not sure why the wank had to be so dissociated from you. I don't get why it couldn't have been intimate or why the porn was involved but also turned away from you?

In reality not being bothered about your partner being attracted to someone so long as they would have no opportunity to act on it and being devastated by an attraction to someone they may have an opportunity to act on something with indicates problems with trust and security.

Offred Fri 28-Dec-12 00:03:20

It seems weird to choose to dissociate from you during intimacy and for you to have stopped it because you were feeling unwell but still for him to basically use your hand to masturbate himself while he fantasises about other women. It just seems a really weird and unhappy thing altogether.

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Fri 28-Dec-12 01:08:49

Offred, loads of people have sexual fantasies about celebrities - quite often about fictional characters portrayed by actors. The whole point about sexual fantasy is that you are not percieving the fantasy figure as a 'real' person. If you're thinking about Captain Jack as portrayed by Johnny Depp (to use a random example) you don't use up your fantasy time wondering if he's anxious about his piles, or needs to ring his elderly mother in the morning. It's not wicked or unhealthy to fantasize - it is rude, unkind, or at the very least a bit tactless to tell a sexual partner that you are fantasizing about someone else and to make unflattering comparisons, unless you have previously discussed a mutual liking for that sort of roleplay.

And please don't re-interpret my posts. I never mentioned degradation of any type, I said that I thought it possible the OP's partner was trying to hurt her feelings on purpose.

Offred Fri 28-Dec-12 09:15:07

I never said it was wicked or unhealthy to fantasise. You seem to be conflating the issues. People who don't like porn are not all prudes or religious fanatics... Porn is not the same issue as fantasising.

What I said was I think it is creepy to be aroused by images of bodies performing sex acts that are dissociated from real people.

My point to the op was that what he was probably doing all along was fantasising about real people while she wanked him off to porn. That I think that might make him more human if anything because it might indicate that a person being real is in some way important to his sexual satisfaction where I feel people who need the people in their sexual fantasies to be not real feel creepy to me.

I do not understand this attitude of it is fine/desirable/normal to fantasise and to use porn to do that, that you either aren't allowed to fantasise about real people or if you do it must be a shameful secret and is rude or nasty to tell your partner. I think if wanking your partner off to porn he watches whilst turned away from you is something which happens in your relationship or something your partner wants to be involved in then I can see why the one being wanked would get the idea that their partner is fine with them using fantasies about other people to get off and I'm not sure they would automatically understand this seemingly arbitrary thing where it is ok as long as you make the women unreal.

Offred Fri 28-Dec-12 09:15:46

I don't see the difference between hurt and degraded btw in this context, why is it hurtful?

zippey Fri 28-Dec-12 09:17:27

Some people have mentioned it previously but the real issue I think is the flip from fantasy to reality. Going from a porn actress to a real person, which is hurtful to SimplySad, and I would feel the same way too

Of course actresses (porn, film, theatre) are real people but when you watch them in a film or theatre, they are playing roles, and so play that part of your fantasy. That fantasy could be a horror movie of a crazed person scaring you, or a sexual nymph in a porn movie exciting you. Some people like horror films, some people dont. Doesnt mean that people who like horror films are going to harm other people or are unstable. Most people know how to react to fantasy. When I watch Star Trek, I dont think that I will see new worlds anytime soon. There are a minority of people who will take things too far (ie watch porn and then commit crime, watch Star Trek and go to Trekkie conventions) but these are a minority. Hope all that makes sense!

Im glad you are going to have this chat, and I hope you have a plan of action! Im not sure what he can say to you that would make it better, as I would feel the same way you do. He might say its all a fantasy, but if it were me and I forgived him, there would be the nagging feeling in the back of my mind for some time to come!

Offred Fri 28-Dec-12 09:24:02

It is completely different because consent is required for sexual activity with others, I feel it trains people to erode the importance of mutual pleasure/consent in their sexual needs.

I don't see why it is not hurtful to fantasise about someone "untouchable" but devastating to fantasise about a friend if the premise is that fantasy is healthy and not hurtful why should that be? It implies a belief that fantasy is in some way connected to real-life sexual behaviour but people will no doubt insist that porn and fantasies about it will not affect real-life sexual behaviour where it comes to sexual satisfaction/consent.

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