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money and marraige(39 Posts)
I am tearing my hair out over my DH. This is the situation and would love an objective opinion.
He works but like alot of people is not really earning very much (construction work) - he works very hard a long hours etc - He also has alot of savings - and i know he is very keen to keep these for the future but im not exactly sure what he intends using them for. Up to recently i presumed he was keeping them for our future / rainy day but now i think he will never want to spend it on his famiy
Anyway i am out of work at the mo so am geting 270 eur per wk sw and DH gives me 350eur per wk, i get 420 c. benefit. We have 3 children and the amount of 350 per wek he "gives me" is all he will contribute. This has to pay the mortgage (300 per week), childcare, all bills, all clothes, all food, health insurance, house insurance etc etc, It just isn't enough and i am alwayas short and always worrying about money.
So prob is whenever iask him for a cheque for a specfic thing he wont giveit or gives it with such a song a dance and huffing and puffing it is humiliating for me. When i ask for something - straight away he starts with 'am i not giving you enough already', how much exacty do you get every week", you never leave me alone etc etc.
Am very upset because we had seperated last year over alot of this stuff and in general his selfishness but now here i am again.
So question is; is 350 enough for his to be contributing each week? Should i not have access to his savings? Am i being unreasonable? I dont think i am but if im not what do i do to sort this out. Am on sick leave from work but think the company is going to close next year so am very anxious about being dependant on this man - dont feel at all comfortable
Yeah, do, we're lovely over there!
schooldays - join this thread
its like an odd game of russian roullette at this stage. i know deep down his behaviour is deliberate, i am sorry i brought up hosp appt, i know he is treating me like a child. he also knows that i have had him out before but he doesnt know if i will do it again, in truth i dont know if i will either. its like a minute battle of wills and whoever is truely the strongest will win. he knows it and i know it. obviously its not the marriage i signed up to or thought i had, not even a friendship just a battle as i said, subtle and cunning on his part, he pretends he doesn't understand. scared and nervous on my part - afraid of the consequences for myself and my dc's if i stand up to him again.
and by the way no he has no particularly wonderful qualities, not successful, not particularly smart (except at this), not really popular, not even really good looking or anything. truth is my family had their jaws on the ground when i said i was dating him first all them years ago -but i was all 'oh but ye dont know him really' and 'oh he didn't mean to be rude was just stressed/drunk/felt uncomfortable. and 'oh i know he isn't a professional but he's a hard worker and he's earning loads, and oh you know his mother died when she was young and his father is horrible to them,oh and you know he likes to go out after working so hard all day and i dont mind, im easy going, and hes so good with the kids and on and on and on.
I feel really cross on your behalf. Paying his fair share is not like he's doing you a favour - this isn't pocket money!
I'm not even married to my DP yet we have a joint bank account (we do have a child together) - all my money goes in, all his money goes in, all our bills go out and we have equal access to what's left (until it runs out) he earns more than me but that is immaterial. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Rather than wrangling over this matter - the crux is - if he doesn't change (and I have to say, I reckon that any change would only last as long as he felt was needed to get you off his case) do you really want to live like this? Does he have redeeming factors that outweigh his stinginess and manipulative behaviour?
Plus he doesn't seem to think you have a right to anger, or to express things emotionally - that thing about how you'll ruin Christmas.
"How much do you need each week, schooldays?"
"I need to be treated as an adult. To be trusted with
your our money. No more, no less."
He's a drama queen! He's making a big deal of the hospital thing now, so you wish you'd never brought it up, feel like you made a mountain out of a molehill and start doubting yourself. Then hopefully (in his pov) you'll think twice about questioning his behaviour again.
He actually has plenty of idea...it is deliberate you know.
he is just in from pub (always nicer after alcohol) - asked me why im not talking to him. i told him it is because he refused me money twice this week and didn't ask me how hosp appt went. he asked me how we could resolve the money situation, how much exactly i need each week. I NEED! I asked why he didnt ask how my hosp appt went, he said it was because i wasnt talking to him. I told him he was capable of asking me how the kids are, where i was but he couldn't muster the strength to ask me how i was? he said its not fair what i am doing to him and we are going to have a terrible Christmas if i dont stop. he is dying to now know how hospital went. he said he feels like tyrone in coronation street!!!!!! does he really have no idea??
No, keep ranting: anger is what you need! It's all to easy to lose the anger, and then you're just lost.
So, could you get him out again?
you are so right. i remember when i told my family before we separated last time what had been going on - the initial reaction from my mam was that we "need our heads banging together" when my sister wanted us to "sit down with her and trash it all out with her" i had a hard job convincing them that i literally couldn't do another thing to makes things better. i tried doing everything perfect in the house, i tried not going out with my friends,i tried talking to his family, i tried writing him letters, i tried to forgive him when he cheated, i tried managing all the bills on my own, i tried couples counselling, i tried leaving with the kids, i tried leaving myself for a night without the kids, i tried losing weight,i tried to be funner, more understanding, getting up with our ds during the night for month on end without complaining, i tried not complaining about him going out to the pub every weekend night, I TRIED EVERYTHING. People who have not been in an abusive relationship could never understand what its like. Oddly the only people who believed me without hesitation were the police and a judge. Only because they had seen it all before, even the judge told me he would never change, his sort never do. And even then i still believed he could change.
sorry rant over!!!!!!
I sympathise, schooldays, my h's finances are similarly shrouded in mystery. The point is, though, that he is controlling your finances, which should be joint finances. He says he hasn't enough. He should say we haven't enough! It's a hugely significant difference. He is treating you like a child - and you will feel the effects of that psychological abuse over time. You say he's not obviously abusive at the moment - THAT's the danger of it. It's harder to see, and harder to heal from.
Financial abuse is still abuse, even without anything else. To some people it just sounds ridiculous not to be able to sort it out with a talk. If you have never been in a marriage/relationship where the control lies with one very "unusual" individual in the so-called partnership it would be hard to know that someone would DELIBERATELY make their partner suffer.
he does not have to hit you to be abusive.
thanks for all the support.
you see i cant ascertain what he is earning because he plays cloaks and daggers and will never tell me. he just says he hasnt enough and he wont be able to keep this up and that im always nagging him, i never have enough etc etc. its not like he has the type of job that he gets a payslip that i can see - he gets cheques from various different building jobs so i have no way of knowing. also he has different bank acs so there is literally no point in asking him again how much he earns.
ps just checked my own bank ac and the usual amount he 'gives me' my standing order didn't go into my a/c - the plot thickens - so really the 1k he gave me for 'shopping' isnt for shopping at all really IYKWIM.
This is awfully confusing OP. How much money is coming into your house and how much is going out. That is what you need to work out first and then see how much is left or what the shortfall is. Both of you need to be quite sure about how much money it takes to run your household. You both sound very stressed out indeed.
I don't suppose you were an idiot at all, schooldays. I expect he was very persuasive and convinced you he'd changed. You'll see through the act more easily this time.
While you're getting your head around whether you can leave him or get him out again, how about this plan: get the bank card from him once more. Go through the hassle. When he asks for it back, write him a cheque. Say that you can't give up your card (you'll have to keep it safely hidden - bra? ), as you know that in the past it's dd who's had to suffer when the money isn't available when it's needed...
You are married and therefore you should be equal partners. That includes having equal access to money. "All I have I share with you" I believe the wording is in the version of the marriage ceremony I'm familiar with.
PS no room for you to be the "complete fool", for that is me!!!
schoodays I'm sorry but your counsellor is an idiot: you're already working your way round him..that's what's got your head in a mess to start with...and part of the reason you're seeing her IMO
"he's not obviously abusive now but my god he is really messing with my head": that is what emotional abuse does...over on the support thread we call it "spaghetti head/brain". it's like away from him you can sort of work out what a normal reaction/discussion should be but once he's there in front of you you can't do right for doing wrong and NO STRATEGIES WORK.
"why was i such an idiot to give up the control i had back so easily?" a triumph of love and trust over judgement, because you really want to believe that underneath it all is a normal loving human being, because you have been conditioned to do what he wants, because these abusive men pick us out from the start as people who will work hard to preserve a relationship, care and look after everyone else ahead of ourselves and who have poor personal boundary setting/keeping.
There is no point beating yourself up about the past...(leave that to him he's the expert!!) Try to detach and to think of the future, what you want, how you will get there, baby steps along the way.
many have been there before you, let's try to make sure our daughters and son's don't follow us into this nightmare.
Ask for help and people will rally round with advice and care (and the one's that don't you can leave to their own devices for a while).
best wishes Op
thanks for posts.
am so confused and upset. have no clue now why i let him - only clue is that i am a complete fool. went for counseling this evening and she put it very well that i trusted him again without my needs being met. i did. i trusted him that he had changed. hes not obviously abusive now but my god he is really messing with my head. he asked me this eve why i am not talking to him. its like going round and round in circles.
then this evening as i am going xmas shopping tomorrow, he asked if i needed money. i said yes and he wrote me a chequ for 1K. WTF. not a word about the money i needed earlier in the week. he thinks he is great now for giving me this money but what good is it.
counsellor (bit of an idiot i think) said i need to work around him as confronting him head on doesnt work. she said if he gives me a cheque put it away straight away so it cant go missing - like the last one. she said if he wants to go to pub fri - sun nites then i should arrange something on mondays or tuesday - not very helpful i thought myself. what sort of way is that to live.
she did say though that i need to do a pros and cons of what living together and apart would bring me and make a decision based on that. dont feel strong enough to go through trying to get him out again. police were involved last time so believe me it wast easy.
we were supposed to get back for a trial period but he - cute as a fox - went and rented out the house he was living in while we were seperated - he never for one minute thought of this as a trial.
why was i such an idiot to give up the control i had back so easily
Yes this is abuse. Why on earth did you get back with him? You need to break up again but before you do, go to a solicitor and find out how much you are entitled to financially.
I suspect your health & mental health would both improve without him in your life.
It is seriously screwed up that you are asking your brother for money while your husband has a lot of savings he withholds.
You need to bite the bullet and split up - he's still abusing you.
You are NOT over-reacting
Right now you sound worn out, frustrated and as if you don't quite believe what you are seeing in you NSDH (not so dear husband).
This is because you would NEVER behave as he does so you keep making excuses for him.
He uses his minor injuries to keep you in caring mode....your health issues which sound much more debilitating are ignored completely.
he uses finances to control you
he uses disinterest to make sure you know how important you are not.
_am thinking my mood would be a lot better if he wasn't here playing games with me_. Yes, yes yes to this.
Make a plan, leave, embrace the rest of your life because he will not change.
You're not overreacting. This is financial abuse, and if he has been previously verbally and emotionally abusive, this sounds like him re-establishing the power and control again.
You don't have to put up with this shit and would probably be much better off financially if you left.
still have nothing sorted with my problem - am really upset over it all
the cheque dh refused to give me the monday nite (it was for something for our dd by the way) has not been mentioned since. the cheque that mysteriously disappeared has not been mentioned since (so i have had to ask my brother for two cheques). dh said he was in terrible pain last nite after hurting himself at work - he keeps hurting himself - im sure hes not pretending but its like he uses it to distract from any issues that come up - like he thinks everything can be swept under the carpet just cause hes in pain - am so sick of it.
also had a hospital appt yesterday (that dh knew full well about) and he didnt even wish me luck/ask how i got on. a year ago i would have thought he just forgot - that he is a selfish pr*t but now i think he is kind of deliberately not asking - sounds weird - but as a type of game. this man was very verbally and emotionally abusive in the past thats why i am freaking out so much. i think he is reverting back to the way he used to be. i am terrified i have made a huge mistake letting him move back home. it took me years to get rid of him and now i am scared the cycle is starting all over again.
another thing - i had to meet my boss last week - have been of sick for months and this was the first time i met her since i left. again he knew full well that i was meeting her - but it took him two days to ask me how the meeting went. in fact she told me i would probably be made redundant so its not like it wasnt' important - wouldn't you think he would be interested. would it be too much to be able to tell your husband that you basically just lost your job? i know i could have brought it up myself but i feel if he cant be bothered to ask why should i?
anyway health wise i have chronic fatigue and doc thinks i should go on anti-depressents to lift my mood - am thinking my mood would be alot better if he wasnt here playing games with me.
am i over-reacting?
The system you have at the moment is clearly not working. You need a new system. If he won't work with you on this and be reasonable it's probably not worth trying to make it work. Your problem is not really financial, it's communication, equality and respect.
Fwiw all our earnings go into a joint account. All our savings are in a joint account. We have a joint mortgage. We see a marriage as a partnership.
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