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"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

(1000 Posts)
DontstepontheMomeRaths Sun 25-Nov-12 21:48:27

Thread opener here: smile
You may need to right-click and 'unblock' it after downloading it.

It's November 2012, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.


Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn?t have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

Follow up to pages first thread:

I?m sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don?t claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

I have cut and pasted this because I think it is fab. Just in case anyone misses the link.

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

notarealorphan Tue 01-Jan-13 19:25:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

roughtyping Tue 01-Jan-13 19:32:04

Thank you plan. I think I am starting to get there - not engaging - just stating facts over and over. It's when I'm off the phone that I doubt myself - at the time I can see how bloody ridiculous she is - it's afterwards I think, is she really asking so much of me? Will google the triangle, haven't heard of it before. I KNOW I can stop this, it will just take time, it's just horrible knowing how little she cares.

They haven't asked how I am. They just don't care. It's not nice but I have MY OWN loving, supportive, beautiful little family. That's what I need to focus on.

Badvoc Tue 01-Jan-13 19:58:36 sorry you feel so down. I know that when I am physically at a low ebb - which seems often lately sad - I get more upset/affected by my family's selfishness.
Agree with the boundary advice given above.
It's the only way my parents will ever see me again.
We are off to Northumberland! Am very excited. Want to go to holy island and Alnwick castle.
I started a history degree with the OU before ds2 was born and am starting it up again. It will take me a long time to get my degree, but am not in any hurry...

roughtyping Tue 01-Jan-13 20:10:53

Excellent news badvoc! Studying is great for you. Hard going at the time but such a sense of accomplishment!

notarealorphan Tue 01-Jan-13 20:15:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

notarealorphan Tue 01-Jan-13 20:30:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HotDAMNlifeisgood Tue 01-Jan-13 22:17:56

Oh and did you know that Scapegoat is a very important role in the family - you have the power, ever tried exercising it?

Can you elaborate on that, plan ?

PrincessFionne Tue 01-Jan-13 23:45:29

awful roughtyping, just awful, and when you are in such pain. You need to look after yourself first. I know that sounds selfish, but you have a DC and have to be in a good place for them, and you already have so much to manage with this pain, let alone the pain of self-indulgent parents who aren ot considering you atall.

I know there is another page on here, but just wanted to reply to plans thoughts (page 36) - I think I probably would go with the reductionist view of biological psychology, but it was my personal view on the very brief reading that I gave the link you thoughfully provided, and certainly didn't want to sideline the thread by mentioning the link briefly. I have, as I am sure others have, set up some hideous self-talk, which only comes from our parents, purely nurture (IMO), and crushingly low self-esteem/confidence and self-loathing (our self-love and esteem are also given us by kind and loving parenting - something I missed desperately). I have done many many mixed up and crazy things and cared less about myself and dreamt of living alone on the streets of london in preference for my childhood. I don't want to takethis moment particularly to drag on about my personal sufferings, just that they were pretty extreme and in the extremeness of it all I sought out ways to cope. I have thought I was going to die, etc. and lived in extreme fear, but had to learn how to sleep, comfort myself, etc. Many of them I don't know how I've done, but I have done many many years of research and i think probably received most forms of therapy from psychiatric to art! with some hypnosis and psychoanalysis along the way. If there is something specific you wanted to try to work on I'm happy for you to PM me and I'll see if theres something I've found works that could help?

good luck with degree course Badvoc OU is a great place to study, loads of support and study buddies!

take care Fi

PrincessFionne Tue 01-Jan-13 23:54:14

also, now I've caught up with this page!, would also be interested to hear more about the power...scapegoat Fi

jessjessjess Wed 02-Jan-13 04:49:38

Bugbear of the day: people who say nobody can make you feel X without your consent/unless you let them.

Sure, if you're a robot with no emotional reflexes. It drives me mad when people trot this out because surely it's only human to be upset or feel intimidated or etc by certain behaviours?

(This rant was inspired by something onanother thread, but kind of applies here.)

jessjessjess Wed 02-Jan-13 04:49:58

What I mean is: I hate the insinuation that I - or any other SHer for that matter - can just magically switch off how we feel.

Badvoc Wed 02-Jan-13 09:12:34

Jess I get what you mean.
It's my mums birthday today and she had a hospital appt.
Am going to have a quiet day with the boys baking' playing etc...

notarealorphan Wed 02-Jan-13 10:49:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

notarealorphan Wed 02-Jan-13 10:50:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

notarealorphan Wed 02-Jan-13 10:50:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Badvoc Wed 02-Jan-13 10:54:35

It is a quote I like a lot not, but it does leave me feeling somewhat downtrodden at the same time...I have and periods of lc/NC with my family in the past...I have fine for over 6 months without talking to my sister for example, but I always seem to given in...start talking again, be e one who forgives and forgets...
I don't know why.
Life's too short?
Well, yes it is, too short for wasting my time on them.
Maybe it's because I turned 40 this year? Maybe it's that their preference for my siblings children was just so obvious on Xmas day? I don't know.
But something has shifted.
And I don't think it will ever be the same again...

notarealorphan Wed 02-Jan-13 11:22:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Badvoc Wed 02-Jan-13 11:27:05

Don't feel bad.
No need.
Just ordered my text books from a amazon! Gulp....

NewPatchesForOld Wed 02-Jan-13 13:03:53

I think it's a very profound quote, and also one I use a lot, and I think it IS relevant to SHers...but the problem is that we've been conditioned to let people make us feel bad, and therein lies the problem. We don't choose to feel bad, it's been ingrained into us and it's this response we have to change. Most 'normal' (and I mean that in the nicest possible way so please don't anyone take offence) people will react accordingly to others treating them like s**t, won't take it and will tell the offender to take a hike. SHers, on the other hand, have been taught to do the opposite, to take the crap and put up with it otherwise deal with the consequences.

My mother can be very toxic...actually, no, in the spirit of new year new me I won't make any allowances at all...she IS toxic, and I fell into a series of abusive relationships. I put up with the crap and the abuse because that is what I had been taught to do. I was abused, hit, bullied and raped...I was made homeless, I was isolated...all because my entire life had been lived in that same (albeit slightly less overt) manner.

I was lucky, I realised the path I was on and I withdrew from dating completely, 'found myself'(I hate that expression but very fitting) and came to learn that I would have to change.

After 2 years of this I felt ready to date again. I have now met the most wonderful, gentle, kind, considerate and loving man. The point of this is that I had to response to other people. I could no longer give them permission to hurt me or make me feel bad. However, I have still not managed this with my mother - I guess that is the most deeply ingrained of all and will take a lot longer.

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Wed 02-Jan-13 13:42:52

That sounds awful patches, it's amazing that you turned your life aroundsmile
I see what you mean about still taking the crap off your mother, my dh is the same, for example he won't take crap from others, but will from his parentsconfused.

Like you say, it all takes time, hopefully not long for you patches.
I have seen dh treated like crap the entire time i have been with him (8yrs+), and just when i think he is making a stand, something inside him stops himsad.

It's funny how at first the pil seemed 'perfect', but after a year or so it started to dawn on me it was indeed a 'front' and once they really got to know me the manipulation started on me too, until about 2yrs ago when it really began to sink in how toxic they were and still are....

noddyholder Wed 02-Jan-13 13:46:56

I am the constant forgiver and get back in toucher but haven't this time. I can see some glimmers of change in my younger brother my mum's son from another relationship. He had xmas with them and myself my sister and other brother weren't there. He said he wasn't bothered before xmas and it would be fine but I think it profoundly affected him. He joined FB today which is very unlike him and he has been messaging my sister and talking and I really think he sees that what she has done to all of us is wrong.

jessjessjess Wed 02-Jan-13 13:59:39

I wasn't referring to anything anyone said on this thread - just to be clear! I wouldn't have had a grumpy little tantrum in response to someone on here. But I actually think that whole idea (that nobody can make you feel bad without your consent) doesn't belong in any conversation about toxic or abusive childhoods. You don't get to consent to that kind of upbringing, it happens to you, whether you like it or not. To be told you shouldn't "allow" people to make you have the feelings that causes - well, that amounts to invalidation, in my mind.

It is only natural to have an emotional reaction to certain behaviours by other people. I don't think it's realistic, or fair, to expect someone to say they won't feel bullied, intimidated, rejected, hurt, etc. It puts the responsibility on the victim, as ever.

Eleanor Roosevelt said that nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent. I'm not even sure I buy that (again, it's a complete invalidation of a natural reaction in certain situations) but I suspect she was talking about political achievement, not emotional anguish.

In any case, I feel plenty of things without choosing to do so, and if I could just stop allowing people to make me feel that way I wouldn't waste money on therapy!

NewPatchesForOld Wed 02-Jan-13 14:47:47

jessjessjess...I knew it would come out my own clumsy way I was kind of agreeing with you, that we don't have a choice. Sorry if I got it wrong.

And thanks Pumpkin...I was just determined that the perpetrators were not going to take any more of my life from me or my dc. I just need to make that final hurdle of the mother.

PrincessFionne Wed 02-Jan-13 15:05:19

agree Jess our consent is so ingrained that its non-existent and sometimes extremely difficult to find, and to find our own voices; these things are the biggest struggles in the children of the abuser. There are some (and I've been on threads of those) that believe that the person bullied is the responsible one for 'allowing' it. ARe we sure she even said that [Roosevelt], apparently she said something about similarities between hot tea and women, but she didn't .. and like you say, taken out of context says something very different. I do think our reactions to people and whether we are prepared to accept what someone says about us plays a big part in our reaction, but this must be balanced against actually 'hearing' what others say that could be negative but true and needs to be taken on board for our own growth. It is important to listen, in order to grow, but we have to be so careful who we listen to and identifying the toxic ones is the best start! ;)

This is the bit about community I think, plan that is good for recovery, as listening to other's experiences and how they made things different for them are far more likely to bring about change than reading will (although I am a huge fan of that too). Being on these threads for instance chatting to all these wonderful people and all their different experiences, triumphs (and traumas) all bring it to mind and offer ways of thinking about solutions for ourselves. In offering support we are also processing our own stuff. Its all good. (most research has good things to be drawn from it, and I'm glad you have found it so very useful - my view matters not to its value to you/others).
Ooooo post gone on too long... sorry.. take care all.

jessjessjess Wed 02-Jan-13 15:14:59

Patches, nobody got it wrong. Am just rambling! Don't mean to have a go at anyone on here.

PrincessFionne Wed 02-Jan-13 18:28:20

patches 2 years in finding yourself, well done..after all that trauma (like you say, the mother won't change, we have to change our reactions so we don't suffer it any more, but that doesn't make us responsible for their behaviour) I heard a similar story recently of finding a really good partnership after that length of time. Was it anything in particularly that stood out for you that made this change, or was the catalyst to finding you?

SmellsLikeTeenStrop Wed 02-Jan-13 21:45:29

We've not heard a thing from MIL since DH told her that her behaviour towards SIL1 was abusive. My gut tells me that she's sulking and giving us the silent treatment so that we go running to her to see if she's ok.

PrincessFionne Wed 02-Jan-13 22:49:41

Try not to worry about what she might be thinking or expecting, it can be intense; you said what needed to be said, the ball is in her court now, her time to speak up and step up (if she's gonna). Fi

PrincessFionne Thu 03-Jan-13 00:09:25

do any out there have experience of NC but then when DC's get older contact being reinstated with them only? Fi

Midwife99 Thu 03-Jan-13 08:30:48

Hi everyone - I haven't posted much the last few days - work & Christmas/NY have been full on! Hope you all had a good time with your DCs!
Am feeling v guilty & selfish. My mother has been sobbing on the phone to my cousin about the "rift in our relationship" & asking "have I had enough space yet?". My last email from my father said "Come on now midwife. You've made your point. Let's move on now" ie brush everything under the carpet & forget about it. I can't do that but at the same time really don't feel like going over for a "chat " to have my feelings minimised sort things out. It's awful but I wish they would just cease to exist so I can forget them. hmm

Badvoc Thu 03-Jan-13 08:42:19

The rift in your relationship is caused by your parents and as they themselves have said, it's the gc they want to see, not you.
It seems to me they are very sorry that you have "found them out" but not at all sorry for the behaviour iyswim?
I know I am down...just want to sleep all the time- had 12 hours last night and wish I was still in bed sad
But that's ok. Hopefully I can sleep January away!
No contact still. I didn't send mum a card or gift yesterday and haven't rung to ask about their hospital appts.
Feels weird. But they have my siblings, so they'll be ok <hollow laughter>

Badvoc Thu 03-Jan-13 08:44:15

Fi...I figure my kids can contact them if they want to. I am sure my dc will start asking soon about going to see the, but I will out it off as ling as I can..LA food friend suggested being NC in manageable chunks....I.e. just til half term then reasses which I am finding a very helpful way to look at things.

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Thu 03-Jan-13 09:17:47

I have no experience as such, but being the dil even i feel guilt for not allowing dc to see pil.
Unfortunetly for me, letting the dc go on their own isn't an option (serious issues) & can't let them go with dh either as he doesn't watch them correctly, ie he catnaps on pils sofa.
When there was contact, dh fell asleep and my dc got hold of a very sharp saw from the garden, luckily no-one was hurtshock

Not only that but the whole reason me & dc are now nc is because of their treatment towards dc in the first place.

I don't want my children influenced or hurt by their behaviour like dh was.
The dc know their gp are not nice people and they accept why they don't see them no-more.
My eldest has even gone as far as to say she never wants to see them again.

If the gp are truly toxic and your dc remain unconditioned to their rancid behaviour, you will probably find as adults it won't be an issue as the it still remains that the gp are toxic iyswim.

My niece who is 16 apparently hasn't seen pil for a good while, and i can see why. She's old enough to see through it i suppose. Whereas sil1 trapses her other dc round there all the time, poor kids..

NewPatchesForOld Thu 03-Jan-13 11:06:54

So, having still no information about mother's treatment on her discharge from hospital, I text her yesterday to find out how she is. She did reply to this, saying she had eaten but been sick again etc...I asked her to tell me what the hospital had said, what her treatment was etc...4 hours later still no reply so I text again and said she hadn't replied to my last text. I got one in reply, along the lines of she did reply (she definitely didn't), and that as she was very ill she didn't know who was texting her and who wasn't, and she was in and out of sleep and again stressing how ill she was. I took this as 'leave me alone, stop bothering me'. I text back saying I was just trying to find out how she was, and that I would leave her to sleep. That was Tuesday. It's now Thursday and I have heard nothing.
So, as it stands I know nothing of her treatment, how she is, nothing. All I know is it is gallstones (do they really make you that ill? I don't really know anything about them so this is a genuine question). Do I keep texting, only to be ignored and/or slapped round the face (metaphorically) and made to feel even more crap about myself and a second class offspring or do I just leave her to contact me when brother falls out of favour, which he will, it always of us is the favourite and the other 2 are ostracised.
I actually feel pretty crap this morning.

badvoc did you say you had fibromyalgia? I do too, and it's bloody crippling me at the moment, greatly contributing to my feeling of general shittiness. They do say that it can be caused by past emotional traumas and stress, a culmination of bad things in the past. I firmly believe that, it's like my body, my central nervous system, has become saturated and said enough's enough...a fuse has been blown. I hope you're not feeling too bad. x

jessjessjess Thu 03-Jan-13 11:46:38

Patches I'm sorry - don't know what to advise but wanted to give you a virtual hug.

Am a bit shocked right now - it has literally only just dawned on me that my mum is basically the victim of EA and she didn't just happily go about her life while ignoring me.

This realisation has come from reading one too many threads on MN from people in similar boats who have to be convinced that it's not ok and the kids aren't fine.

I'm still fucking angry with her for being so fucking blind though. If anything I now feel I don't have the right to be angry. Which isn't helping.

PrincessFionne Thu 03-Jan-13 11:51:48

my DC not interested in seeing and too young to have visits without me (as they're toxic GP and I wouldn't leave DC alone, but haveNC myself). DC don't show any interest; actively the other way, and i haven't talked at length about, but answered truthfully any questions that have arisen.

Thee point that you made pumpkin is probably at the heart of my worries for any future contact between them, whether their toxic behaviour would be immediately recognised due to lack of conditioning, as its not the contact itself that worries me just the possibility of their toxicity infecting! As it can be very overt, but I think that only to us when wewere kids were privy to that level, but to others is the control and manipulation which is VERY hard to see, and I have FW ExP who does the same (surprisingly) and concerned v much for possible conditioning laid down there actively now!

Just saying this 'out loud' as it were tho, has helped me to reason that it is unlikely to be a threat. The threat comes I spose when much older if there's contact and then these tussles and fights over plans occur which can end up driving wedges through relationships. I know it happens now with GC in our estranged families. I would probably be the scapegoat here (as the cause of the problem dynamics) and that layered onto GC makes it difficult for them to see for themselves and becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy I reckon. so.. rambling now!.. sorry... long posting in the end.

yeah, midwife how they can turn it around have you had your space now and going to stop being so cruel to us your long suffering parents huh! I recognise the pathetic games. Poor them, they suffer so, dont they! If you're serious about continued NC just do your best to ignore it, we can't manage their reactions, but be kidn to ourself about our own.. take care.

I can ask about gallstones patches but regardless of the condition it does sound like you've tried your best which of course wil never be good enough to see how she is. She's just avoiding answering you so you will be kept hanging on and worrying about her (would be my take on it).

Badvoc Thu 03-Jan-13 12:45:17 answer to your question yes gallstones can make you very ill but tbh if she doesn't want to speak to you than dont waste your time.
Leave her to it. Easier said than done I know.
I was reading a book once written by a doctor and he said most GPS use the shorthand "SLS" to describe people with fibro...says it stands for "shit life syndrome" which really really angered me at the time but now....I sort of see it.
I dont give in to it. I fight it. I don't take long term pain meds as I know what path that can lead to...take today...just wanted to stay in bed. I could have cried when ds2 got up but I forced myself to take them swimming.
At least they have been out today and I have done something other than sit on the soa in my pjs. Their friends are supposed to be coming round to play at 3 so we a watching a DVD til then.
My backmisnnot good...I had a herniated disc 18 months ago and still have after effects of sod from ask of too..all in all it's buggered. And the surgery to correct it is major. Weeks being immobile, on crutches...can't have that done with 2 young kids to look after...

NewPatchesForOld Thu 03-Jan-13 15:11:13

Badvoc I also refuse to give into it, but some days as you say all I want to do is stay on the settee because even washing my hair hurts.
My back is also my main problem...The very end of my back, my right hip and thigh. Some days it's excruciating and I would happily pay someone to cut my leg off at the hip. I have cocodamol 30/500s and diclofenac but I won't take them unless absolutely necessary. Last winter, when I started getting ill with it, I had to use a stick but so far this year I haven't. I am too stubborn/proud to use it! Yes, shit life syndrome...should read SRS - shit relationships syndrome because actually I love life, and despite everything that's happened I do feel happy with my lot. It's just when the toxics come into play that it all starts to crumble.

I still have heard nothing from her or about her.

Princess if she thinks keeping me hanging is going to bring me closer then she's in for a shock. I am becoming more and more disgusted that she chose to have a man she hates picking her up from the hospital rather than her own daughter. I don't really give a flying fig what others think about me, but if I did can you imagine the picture that paints of me as a daughter, and also of her as the head of a family that appears not to care???

Ah, to hell with it. I'm sick of feeling crap about my family, they have dominated my moods/thoughts/life for the past month and I'm soooo tired.

On the plus side, my beautiful DP is starting up a new business venture and is putting me in charge of it so we will be working alongside each other. He is such a calming influence on me, he's like oil on troubled waters. It's such a revelation to me after all the vitriol and venom I've become accustomed to. I'm sure in actual terms he's 'just' a normal man, but normality is what I crave and I have never had that.

thundernlightning Thu 03-Jan-13 15:13:58

Jessjess How awful. I guess rather than seeing things for what they were she decided to pretend. My family has done something similar and I'm staggered at the efforts made to keep up the fiction.

And yy to trying to explain to people that EA is happening and it's not ok and their kids won't be either. Sometimes I avoid those threads. They can really wind me up!

Badvoc Thu 03-Jan-13 15:16:26

Yes SRS is a much better description!!
I know what you mean wrt your dh is the same. Very calming and sensible, unlike me! smile

jessjessjess Thu 03-Jan-13 15:33:46

Remind me not to post in relationships. Other people get sympathy, I get jumped on. Forgot that SH issues sound trivial to others.

Badvoc Thu 03-Jan-13 15:36:08

I am the wrong one to ask jess...I posted in Aibu on Xmas day!
Blimey did I get a pasting!
I agree they can sound trivial until you get the back story...which no one can in a first post.
Don't worry, it's not trivial, we know that x

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Thu 03-Jan-13 15:58:13

It's definitely not trivial jessjess, remember that people unaffected by Toxic families don't understand, and until being with dh neither did i.
Been going through all my posts about ils from last year, and looking at them i'd say me and dh have moved on a fair bit.
Cringing at the things even i was putting up with, can't believe i allowed such a toxic family into my life. Ils from hell they are, well and truly..

HappyNewHissy Thu 03-Jan-13 16:05:27

Where did you post jessjess?

need me to wade in? grin

Salbertina Thu 03-Jan-13 17:28:04

Jess- saw yr thread, yr OP made sense to me and at least some of the posters, don't worry. But yes, sadly as in RL most people don't 'get' it and will tend to voice of reason type advice ie downplaying yr reaction and challenging it. This assumes a 'normal' functional family which sadly is what we lack. Chin up though, lots if us understand and are here fir you. Fwiw i do think it sounds as if yr dm has suffered EA from her partner... However i also think she wont welcome your help unless shes ready sad if ever.

PrincessFionne Thu 03-Jan-13 18:05:30

good for you Patches thats the way to go girl!

Sorry to hear that Jess just ignore, I get that when I find myself trying to explain stuff in RL, but can't make myself understood as people generally just don't get it atall.

<hugs all>


jessjessjess Thu 03-Jan-13 18:11:45

Thanks HappyNewHissy, that's appreciated. The thread has run its course now so don't really want to resurrect it.

Basically it suddenly dawned on me that my therapist was trying to tell me maybe my mum was a victim of EA and didn't just choose not to help me. While the break from therapy has been shit, I think I've made a lot of progress on my own over the break. Thank you all for being here and hand-holding.

The thing that came up in the course of my thread was that I was trying to give examples of my dad treating me in a way I just don't think is quite right; if I ask him not to talk about something right now, he will stop and literally just sit there and glare at me. He started talking about Gary McKinnon at my nephew's birthday tea and when I said it wasn't the time he sat there and glared at me in fury.

If, say, DH had started a topic of conversation and I'd said: can we talk about this later as it's not really interesting to the kids, he would have said "Yeah you have a point," or shrugged, or something, and happily changed the subject. My point is that this isn't how adults are supposed to treat each other.

I don't think I can do anything for my mum. If I try, I will tear away years worth of survival mechanisms and do more harm than good. But - much as it pains me to say it - I suppose I have come to realise that maybe she's not just an awful enabler who chose to ignore things but that not-seeing is a survival mechanism for her as for so many others. I'm still angry, but angry for her, not with her, I guess. Because I realised I have it better - I have gone away and married a lovely man and have a better life before me than she has had.

Patches - sorry to hear about all the manipulation and game-playing. Any update on the situation?

How is everyone else doing? I've lost track a bit sorry!

jessjessjess Thu 03-Jan-13 18:12:45

And thanks Fi.

noddyholder Thu 03-Jan-13 19:01:13

My brother has informed me today that I just need to put up with my mum for his sake In his words 'Yes she is nasty but we need to be her emotional punchbags' I have heard it all now

AttilaTheMeerkat Thu 03-Jan-13 19:08:18


What was your response to that barking mad pronouncement of your brother's?.

DontstepontheMomeRaths Thu 03-Jan-13 19:21:35

I have that old chestnut too Noddy about my dad's behaviour. Tbh I'm sick of my family normalising, enabling and pandering to his behaviour. It's neither normal or acceptable but they simply cannot see it.

noddyholder Thu 03-Jan-13 19:22:58

I said never.He hasn't seen the email she sent me yet feels he can comment Apparently she has showed my reply to her friends and they all think i am terrible BUT there was no reply so she has lied. The mail she sent was in response to one i sent her when she got back in touch after 7 months silence and i said glad you changed your mind life's too short she went nuts that i had challenged her silence! As my sis said if she showed them both emails side by side they would know the truth but she never will.

DontstepontheMomeRaths Thu 03-Jan-13 19:23:35

"but that not-seeing is a survival mechanism for her as for so many others" That's so true Jess, I think my Mum is very much like that about Dad sad

noddyholder Thu 03-Jan-13 19:46:31

I am at my wits end now with this. Have always protected him from her she sent him packing to me throughout his teens and early twenties every time he had a problem (break ups jobs etc) said she couldn't cope with it. I tried to involve him in our family as she doesn't 'do' traditional mum hmm because i felt sorry for him at significant birthdays etc as she doesn't do those either.

PrincessFionne Thu 03-Jan-13 20:59:19

there is also the possibility that many do have toxic parents and still support them do not realise ! my siblings support my toxic parents , all of them (siblings that is, not parents!); most seem to say the same (that they have siblings with contact,etc. but I know that they have suffered terribly at their hands, physically so obvious, but also EA which they have their own ways of explaining away. Actually the physical has been explained away too, altho they have talked about it too and so accept it as wrong in some way.


PrincessFionne Thu 03-Jan-13 21:02:40

the above was in response to Badvoc and Jess posting on previous page, but seems you are all making the statements now about your siblings too (mine x with those)

WhitePeacock Fri 04-Jan-13 00:26:15

Hello stately homers,

I posted several threads back about my difficult relationship with my mother. Have realised now, sadly, that she is very controlling, very angry and quite narcissistic. I am 30, with a DH and dd, and we currently live in one of mum's houses, having been v firmly pressed by her to house-sit after my dad died and she moved out of it several years ago. She owns several houses, which made it especially hurtful and difficult to deal with when - after years of squashing my admittedly feeble attempts to say we should look into finding a place of our own - she has now started saying she feels unwelcome in her own home and that she wants to sell this house, as "two women can't share a kitchen". I'm her only child and was brought up (as I now realise) to remain very dependent - until she changed her mind. I feel so rejected, as though I'm no longer anyone's child.

Sorry, massively long, though intended to be brief backstory! I just wanted a bit of hand-holding. I have now realised, with some therapy and the help of my splendid DH, that we are going to be FINE getting a mortgage and making a home for ourselves (this was quite hard after years of "no no, your DH doesn't earn enough for you to get a mortgage". I look after 2 yo dd fulltime but have also worked part time and freelance since before she was born, and look forward to having more time and more work when she is 3.) So we are about to start flat-hunting and I am excited as well as frightened.

Alas, we are going to see my mum this weekend for post-Christmas visit. Didn't see her over Christmas proper as she is fearsomely awful on Christmas Day (I have a less-than-prized childhood memory of her throwing the dressing-gown she'd bought my dad onto the fire one merry Yuletide.) When she discovered we'd spent a week before Christmas with DH's parents, she rang him up and screamed at him at work, and then sent him two rage-filled emails. We haven't spent Christmas with them in years, as I'm afraid of the fall-out from her, but when we finally move she can fuck right off and they won't be punished any further for her bad behaviour. Right now, though, I want to keep things superficially civil until we can move the hell out of Dodge (which won't be for some months yet.) So we have to see her.

Will anyone who feels a nervous dull ache in the tummy at the thought of seeing their parents send me a little mojo to help me get through the weekend? I feel so weak and useless and stupid and little and young. And horrible at the thought of her plying dd with millions of expensive presents, to represent all the time she doesn't spend with her - and how she wouldn't pick her up when we were all ill, in case she caught it and ruined her holiday. She's been such a stinker, but I've had nearly 30 years of believing her emotions were more important than mine and it was my job to make things right for her. I would be super grateful for a bit of fellow-feeling.

PrincessFionne Fri 04-Jan-13 00:54:42

oh hey peacock plenty mojo for you! and some adult you too to take care of your inner little girl as you visit as a grown woman nurturing your innner little girl as you travel through the visit doing the grinning and bearing to achieve your own successes in the end.Glad you see that she is not more important than you anymore, or ever was. You now see her as she is, but I would not guarantee that this visit would prevent her pulling the rug from under you at any time anyway. Just tell her your DD has the latest bug doing the rounds, whilst you get yourselves set up for your own home!.. and then tell her its turned into a chest infection, and then the horrible noro! (and just to post the presents, ha!) you take care, some holding you up from me x Fi

WhitePeacock Fri 04-Jan-13 09:37:36

Bless you FI that is just what I need. I have been toying with the "gross bug" idea grin, but there will be some people we like and haven't seen for ages around this weekend. They should also mean mum behaves better, at least while they're around. "Pulling the rug out" is exactly the way to describe it. I think I shall use it in my mind and if she starts doing it I will imagine casually plopping down to sit heavily on said rug! Thanks so much for moral support.

fresh Fri 04-Jan-13 09:47:48

Peacock, don't beat yourself up about the nervous dull ache - it's the response of a normal person. Feeling weak and stupid is how you've been programmed to feel by her - narc mums try to keep their kids in this position as it reinforces their feeling of omnipotence. But you're not weak and stupid because you can see through her. I know this sounds ridiculously simple and I know that dull ache very well. From what you say you're well on the way to being free of it, but it's hard and you'll waver. Don't beat yourself up about that.
Noddy I don't know your family but this is my theory about narc mums: from the word go they teach their children that the mother's needs are paramount, and if they're not met then the mother may disappear. Therefore, challenging her when you're old enough to work it out is very frightening for all concerned: you, her and the siblings who may still at some level believe it. Your brother sounds like he's never been allowed to get away from it because his life has been controlled by her moods (sent packing when she couldn't cope etc). So she's in charge for him. So challenging her is too scary for him, hence his trying to bring you back to 'toe the line'. Don't. You only have responsibility for yourself, not her or him. Sorry, haven't put that very well but hope it makes sense.

noddyholder Fri 04-Jan-13 10:03:50

Thanks fresh I am a mess today no sleep! My brother is of the mind she is not giving him grief atm so he won't rock the boat. I only gave her what she wanted as she said she wasn't into family etc so I stopped contact. (she said it at least 6 times) She has always controlled us and anything that happens she refers it to her eg how she will cope with someone elses illness etc. I have been teh mother all along and now I have said enough both brothers freaking out

Badvoc Fri 04-Jan-13 10:27:59

I remember nice my mum coming into my bedroom when I was a it 13 and asking me to pack her a bag as she was leaving.
So I did.
Off she went.
She was back about an hour later.
And furious with me for doing as she asked.
I feel I nothing for her but pity.
That's not right, is it?

noddyholder Fri 04-Jan-13 10:35:49

Everything my mum did is coming back to me I had forgotten loads. badvoc that is the sort of thing mine would have done. sad. Mine did things like slapped me round the face when I had my hair cut without her knowing (I was 18) and I took a pair of jeans out of my wardrobe and she had cut one leg off them??? She said it was to teach me how it felt to have something you liked ruined I had dropped a cup in teh sink the day before and it broke.

Badvoc Fri 04-Jan-13 10:47:13 remembering loads of stuff too noddy.
I told a friend once about the packing bag incident and she looked so shocked I have never told anyone else.
Why am I embarrassed by HER behaviour? Why can't I tell my dh just how awful it was?
I spent a lot of time out of the house as I got myself a car, went away for weekends, to see friends, even to the cinema on my own anything to get out of the house.
I remember once I was very upset. I had broken up with a bf who I loved very much but who was taking me for a mug. After a silence of some months he rang and wanted to give it another go. I said no, but was very very upset when I got off the sister looked at me like I was something she scraped off her shoe and proceeded to lay into me about all sorts of crap...that's how I found out that mum had told her they paid for my car! Just a pack of lies and bile.
I went out.
See a pattern here?
After a few weeks my sister apologised...her excuse? She wasn't used to seeing me upset.
How fucked up is that?
I see crying as weakness and something to be hidden and will only cry now if I am alone.
If I am ill I just go off on my own to bed...I don't like being around others when ill and I have recently realised its because I was always left alone when ill. Even as a young child. Mum would get very irritated if I had to stay off school ill and let me know it!
I am the total opposite with my kids...if they are ill they are on the sofa with drinks, TV, books, and they sleep in my bed if they need to.
Maybe a bit OTT but I never want them to feel like I did sad

Badvoc Fri 04-Jan-13 10:51:26

....I don't know whether to write a letter to my parents and explain further why I am NC for a while?
It won't make a jot of difference I guess, but may help me?
I don't know...

Salbertina Fri 04-Jan-13 10:54:09

Badvoc- am nc for 1st time, finding v v hard esp being overseas and xmas
I suggest write that letter explaining but don't send...not easy sad

noddyholder Fri 04-Jan-13 10:56:25

Well I have NC and it was getting easier esp as I had done one xmas. My sister is also NC and that is helping me a lot.

Badvoc Fri 04-Jan-13 11:00:40

I Just don't see what the future holds for a relationship with any of's like they are all ok and I am the one rocking the boat iyswim?
Think I will leave them to it.
My siblings can deal with mums illnesses and MH issues from now on.

noddyholder Fri 04-Jan-13 11:04:17

I think the time does come to put yourself first. My mum can never change She has fallen out with all of her family her children friends etc over the years. She still can't see it is her and as my sister says she never will. Give yourself a time frame to really live your own life how you want and see how it goes maybe? I am starting from today as I am so exhausted and it is affecting ds and dp now

PrincessFionne Fri 04-Jan-13 11:04:22

OH AWFUL NARCS! Cut a leg off your jeans & slap you for hair cut (gasp!) packed her bag for her to leave and then blamed you (gob smacked!). WTF - I can relate to the neglectful nursing - was in so much pain didnt sleep for 2 nights and was vomiting - needless to say, was ignored. A friend called round and was horrified to find me in such a state and was running getting bowls for me to vomit in. Narc was very cross at me cos 'you kept me awake with your groaning all night' huh, she'd have taken the dog to the vets before it got in that state. Lovely love Fi

Badvoc Fri 04-Jan-13 11:10:37

Am just very sad.
I guess that want change any time soon
Sending love to all x

HughPughBarneyMcGrew Fri 04-Jan-13 11:27:29

I'm a name-changer, as it's a small world where I live smile.

I went NC last October. Just had the most calm, relaxing Christmas ever. Feel like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders. But, of course, I am the one 'hurting the whole family'. On days when I wonder if I did the right thing, I cast my mind back about five years, when sis and I were kicked out the house for having an opinion and sat in a muddy field for two hours; we're in our 30's, ffs.

The biggest challenge for me is having to constantly check my own parenting skills. Luckily, I have an understanding DH who is great at gently saying "er, no, that's not how you deal with this situation," without making me feel crap.

I take heart from reading these posts; you are all inspirational and strong and please keep posting because it helps more than you know...

noddyholder Fri 04-Jan-13 11:38:36

Hugh same here our xmas was the best ever. I always was aware from a young age that my mum wasn't 'normal' but had lots of other good people and I learned about being a parent from them.When I look at my son I just can't believe she can treat us like that but she has been doing it so long. I am 47 and spoke up for the first time this summer

Firsttimer7259 Fri 04-Jan-13 12:00:46

After a good xmas (and man was I nervous having gone NC after last years disaster) I was just breathing freely again when the postman delivers package from narc F. Ive opened it feeling sick and anxious. Its stupid that this makes me feel like the 'bad' one. I know there have been plenty of christmasses where I have sent him presents and he didnt and I shrugged it off. Anyway, I refuse to read stuff into this...whether on the choice of presents or anything else...I know what I know

HughPughBarneyMcGrew Fri 04-Jan-13 12:05:53

Noddy glad to hear someone else has had a good christmas! I think children are the catalyst for that light-bulb moment. It wasn't until I was a parent that I got that 'woah, this isn't right!' realisation, after years of being told 'you don't understand, wait until you're a parent.' Oh, the irony!

PrincessFionne Fri 04-Jan-13 12:06:26

oh ((hugs)) Badvoc everything changes, nothing stays the same.

Great to hear Noddy

I think I didn't have anyone else to see parenting skills from; community is so vital for that so that isolation doesn't lead you to think that there is only one way.

Great you had such good xmas' Noddy & Hugh

Firsttimer7259 Fri 04-Jan-13 12:09:31

Badvoc - your ques why am I embarrassed about how she behaves struck a chord with me. I think its because we realise things are supposed to be different and we cover for our parents pretending everything is great when we know its not. On top of that is the fear that there must be something wrong with us to have parents like this. And in a way there is something wrong because narc parents damage you.
I try to hide how awful my relationship with my family is becasue I know people will think I am strange and unstable because of it - and to some extent they are right!

ArseBandit Fri 04-Jan-13 12:27:18

I've been lurking for awhile, but thought I'd dip my toe in.
I've just had my first Christmas without my family after being pretty much NC since around Sept. Lots of backstory, so bear with me.

I'm the eldest of 5. Grew up idolising my mother and wanted to be just like her. My father was physically abusive toward her when I was small, although I can't remember. He was quite controlling and emotionally and verbally abusive throughout my childhood and teenage years, was since diagnosed with depresseion about 10 years ago and has mellowed. My mother looking back has always had a rather sadistic and vindictive streak. She has OCD and had a nervous breakdown when I was 10. She went to live at my grandparents for 2 months and left Dad to cope with us. She went on to have my 2 youngest sisters and had another smaller breakdown when I was 15 and took my youngest sister with her this time (was a baby). I was always held up as the "Golden Child". I strived to be perfect, and always wanted approval. I was the amiable, reliable, responsible child who always did as she was told. My younger sister was the black sheep and caused untold havoc throughout our teens (she's 2 years younger), and my brother (4 yrs younger) was spoiled as he was the only boy. Also caused havoc, held up a petrol station when he was 15, trouble with drugs etc. I ended up with an emotionally abusive mummy's boy when I was 17, and got pregnant to him at 19, married at 20. Stayed with him until I was 25 despite him cheating on me constantly the whole time we were together, doing drugs, putting me and the dcs in danger etc. Went on to have 2 more dcs with him before we split. For 2 years after the split I was an emotional wreck, my self esteem was at an all-time low, I got on antidepressants at my mothers insistance (so I could be just like her) and dated a string of men (because I'd never experienced being with anyone else). Took up smoking, was totally self destructive. Had a mini-breakdown of sorts and DM finally took my dcs for a week or so, so I could get my head together and give me a break. Fast forward a little bit, I realised the ADs were making me worse so I gave them up-DM was displeased. I ended up meeting my DH on line and he moved from UK to be with me. Got my life back on track and weeding out undesirables. Expected my family to be happy for me and instead they act rather disinterested. Don't really get to know DH, treat me as if I was "his problem now". Had an argument with my DM last year after I stopped contact with a married friend who I had stupidly had a dalliance with (something I deeply regret-him not so much). Was pleased to have gotten out of that friendship as it had made me uncomfortable for some time. DM took his side and basically implied I was a stupid whore and I should stop acting like Ï'm better than that". Stopped contact for awhile even after she accosted DH in the street telling him how I was in the wrong and when I'm ready to apologise, I know where she is etc etc. For the first time in my life I had someone to stick up for me. DH opened my eyes to how disgusting her behaviour towards me has been. After roping my sister (also narc) and my GF into trying to get me to fold, she came round with a flippant apology and I let her back in. DH and I came for a trip to the UK last Xmas so I could meet his family, and left the dcs with her, DF and youngest sis's. During this time I was having lots of trouble with my ex and his (also narc!!) mother. We instructed DM not to let him take kids anywhere, but could see them at their house. They threated my DPs with the police, even after I told DM they couldnt do that and were trying to bully. They ended up all going to exMILs house (all my family) and having a big happy family day, despite the way they had treated me. I let it go but it has been clear that DM doesnt approve of how I am conducting my life now (limited contact with very damaging ex, dc asked to call my DH "Dad" etc) and is clearly annoyed I have a supportive husband and father for my dcs. Will write more soon, just realised how long this post is. Argh! Sorry

Badvoc Fri 04-Jan-13 12:39:14

First timer...yes, that makes perfect sense.
Arse bandit...sounds very familiar...I am the eldest of 3 and my sister was as you describe and my brother also.

noddyholder Fri 04-Jan-13 12:44:30

Firsttimer I have covered for my mum for ever at the expense of my sister who she bullied for years but I did nothing. I have found since i have been honest with people a lot of them have said they always thought she was strange.

Badvoc Fri 04-Jan-13 12:59:03

AM just dreading the kids asking to go to their house...I don't know what to say...

ArseBandit Fri 04-Jan-13 13:01:53

Straw the broke the camel's back came a few months back when exH was coming down for a visit with the dcs. I had asked DM to do the handover so I didn't have to see him. A week before DH and I had to meet with the celebrant (were planning our wedding) and asked if she would mind the dcs for an hour. Please note that since I have been with DH we have asked rarely for the kids to be babysat. My DPs lived around the corner from me and rarely visited, although they would pass my house everyday to go to my DSs (a few doors down) and help mind her kids. DM made some excuse about being invited to go to a talk of some description (which I later found out was a lie). I said fine, and asked Dsis. All good. When we got back home, my DS9 said that my DSis has bailed him up and asked him if we had a problem with her and her DP (whole other story). I was really annoyed. The next day my DM called to say exH had been on the phone to her whingeing about me (a common occurence, and one she never discouraged), and I went mad. I asked her why she wouldn't stick up for me instead of engaging in his crap and whose side was she on. Well, out came the old classic narc, "I'm so hurt you would accuse me of that," pity me blah blah. When that didn't work and she couldn't answer direct questions, she started attacking me. "C'mon, do you really think anything ex did to you was any worse than what (Sisters abusive ex) did to her?" constantly comparing how hard my sister has had it. (I'm never allowed to be seen as a victim in anything, even when bad stuff has happened, it has been my fault). And then accused me of being in my "little happy land" after moving to a town 10 mins away because we couldn't get a house in the same area. Also accusing me of being "very immature for a girl of nearly 30". I had this convo on speakerphone, and DH was sitting there with his mouth hanging open. It was after this we decided to forego our plans for our wedding and elope in our living room a couple of weeks later, with 3 friends as witnesses. Shit has hit the fan since then. My mother has been conducting a smear campaign against me to anyone who will listen. She rang my ex that day and told him about our wedding and our plans to take dcs for a holiday to the UK next year, resulting in ex refusing to sign passports and being a general pita. My brother sent me an absolutely vile text and cut off contact with me. My sister demanded to know why I wasn't speaking to her. My Dad called past to see the kids and was quite nice-but copped it from mum for "conceding on her behalf". He has tried to smooth things over because he doesnt want a fight. My mother turned up on my doorstep to tell me that her and my DF were over, and that "our family is now no longer". I refused to bite. She was pissy because she failed to engage me in her drama, so vowed to "never darken my doorstep again" and promptly left and went AWOL. Had my DF ringing me asking where DM was because she had lied about them splitting up, and had gone off her meds etc. Had ppl looking for her all day and my sis (apparently) rang the police to locate her. Found her eventually and nothing more was said. Missed DS9's bday, my bday and DD5's bday. I had a long talk with Dsis17 and was told mum deliberately missed their bdays to spite me, and had been trying to get dsis17 to write hurtful things on fb, which she refused to do. Found a tub of Xmas presents in our carport for the kids, and a card with a $100 gift card for me and DH, along with a 4 page rambling incoherent letter, starting off with, "whatever you think you know, you dont", about how "hurt" she was, how she is öbviously unworthy" as a mother, how I have "used" her and how she is "thankful for the time she has had with the grandbabies she helped me to have" (wtf?). We returned the money so she couldn't hold that against us, and had my 14yo sis texting nasty horrible stuff to me about me being immature and breaking up the family etc etc. WHew. Sorry, I just had to get it all out. Thanks if you've gotten this far.

Badvoc Fri 04-Jan-13 13:06:12

Each I have had that thrown at me too.
Each time I tried to leave home where I was so unhappy my dad told "you are breaking up the family"
Some Fucking family.
It's bad timing for me to go nc in a parents are both now suffering Heath problems and I will no doubt be painted as evil and uncaring.
I have been caring for both do them since I was my sons age.
He is 9

noddyholder Fri 04-Jan-13 13:08:44

My mum is currently awaiting a hysterectomy She had a prolapse and I researched online choices etc and she rejected them all and said she would soldier on. Then emailed me that she had to take her friend to teh appointment and how scared she was and couldn't rely on me who had no idea she even had an appointment. She blames everyone for her life.

ArseBandit Fri 04-Jan-13 13:11:45

Also meant to put when I had told my mother she never made and effort to see me or the dcs but she'd drive an hour to see my brother, she replied with she was busy because it was "her time now." I said I was busy-even with 3 dcs under 10 and holding down 3 jobs I still made the effort to go and see her. Her response? "But I work harder than you." She obviously has a competition going with me. I don't raise the kids as well as she did, my house is never as clean as hers. When I was a single mum I complained that she didn't understand how hard it was trying to keep a roof over our heads and foof on the table. She responded with, "Well, your father was never home, I was pretty much a single parent!" Yeah mum, one with the benefit of having a husband working two jobs to pay a mortgage and all the bills. No empathy, only one-upping.

noddyholder Fri 04-Jan-13 13:13:10

My mum is like that always competing. Making it about her.

Badvoc Fri 04-Jan-13 13:14:18

My mum has a prolapse but refuses to have the op to sort it out.
She is coeliac but will not stick to the GF diet and so has lots if stomach problems.
She has a blood clot in her groin which affects her mobility (well it affects her mobility if i ask her to do anything or go anywhere but she can walk round the shops with my sister for hours though) and went to see the surgeon about it on Tuesday.
My dad has been having trouble swallowing and went for an endoscopy last Friday.
They are both smokers and have smoked since they were teenagers. They are both now mid 60s.
My dad is still working as he dreads retiring and being with her 24/7. Can't say I blame him.
I feel bad for not phoning and asking how the appts went but I can't.
I need to detach.

ArseBandit Fri 04-Jan-13 13:21:46

It is hard to detach. I've read Toxic Parents and also Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers. That was an eye-opener. After that it was laughable how predictable her behaviour had become, and made it much easier to detach. The hard thing is the vileness and pressure from the rest of the family. I'm glad my DH is really wonderful and supportive. I still have hard days tho. Don't feel bad Badvoc, you need to preserve your sanity.

fresh Fri 04-Jan-13 13:36:52

Arsebandit didn't want you to go unanswered. That is a pile of crap from your family, esp your mum.

WhitePeacock Fri 04-Jan-13 13:37:42

Thanks so much fresh, you talk A LOT of sense.

FFS what is WRONG with these people who had kind, brilliant empathetic kids and just decided to treat them so badly?

For everyone feeling sad and bereft - you are immensely strong, looking straight-on at the awful stuff and trying to deal with it and eventually move past it. Our parents couldn't ever manage that - I think being wrong to them is like psychological death.

I am so grateful for this thread, although very sad so many of us have been let down.

Badvoc Fri 04-Jan-13 13:41:56

Yes I do.
I even wrote that in my e mail..."for the sake if my own sanity I have to have no contact for the foreseeable future"
I can just imagine the ruckus that had caused...
My brother has not been in contact all over Xmas and new year so obv he blames me too.
Sister is abroad ATM but no doubt the crap will start when she returns.

ArseBandit Fri 04-Jan-13 13:46:16

I hear you Badvoc- once my mother had realised she couldn't get anywhere she has recruited my siblings to do her bidding. Nasty, the lot of them. (Apart from dsis17). It wears you down, especially when your whole family are telling you that you are wrong and a horrible person. You believe them because they are your family, and they supposedly know you best. You don't want to believe that they would exploit your feelings for their own needs.

DontstepontheMomeRaths Fri 04-Jan-13 14:15:15

I'm lurking and reading. I find it so sad that we've almost filled up a thread in just over a month. I suppose it was inevitable with the Christmas period and each of our struggles. But it's also amazing that this thread is a place where we can share our hurt and people understand. I'm glad to be a part of it, even though I have little to add often.

I hope nobody minded me creating the new one, ready for when this one is full? I had the time today. The link is:

fresh Fri 04-Jan-13 14:23:41

ArseBandit your siblings are still in thrall to her, still terrified to challenge the central lie that she must be kept happy. It does wear you down (I just feel a huge black cloud of dread when I think about having to deal with my sisters) but take heart you're the only sane, brave one!

SmellsLikeTeenStrop Fri 04-Jan-13 14:37:32

peacock your story is eerily similar to ours except it's MIL who owns our house. We're in the process of looking for another home (got a viewing tonight, yey!). Don't let your mum know you're moving until you're just about ready to go, i.e paper work signed and you just need to organise the removal van. It's likely she doesn't actually want to sell the house you live in, she just wants to scare you and if you let her know you're moving she would fight very hard to get you to stay.

Firsttimer7259 Fri 04-Jan-13 15:10:37

Aaargh! I told myself I wouldnt do this but I keep doing this. Since receiving xmas package from narc F (we are NC since last jan) I am now going round in circles re-meaning/intention behind the gifts. This is stupid as I know the main meaning is really that he doesnt care about me and never has. But Im picking it over and over and just want to say it on here so I dont say it in RL.

He sent a package with 4 gifts and 2 cards. One card for me and H, one for DD. All 4 gifts for DD (interp: he wants to demonstrate that he's doing his utmost to stay in touch with his grandchild despite NC with me). The four gifts are: 1 crafting type toy far too advanced for her (interp: he will not listen to what I have said about her developmental delays and determined to cast me as the neurotic mother) One gift of a baby scrap book from 0-5 years (nice idea but she's 3 now would've been nice when she was born, I suspect he managed to find it cheap somewhere). Plus 2 t-shirts both far too big. It feels churlish and mean to criticize gifts so I am determined to say nothing about these to anyone (bar counsellor) but it seems so clear that the main point behind the gifts for my dad is so that he can say he sent 'so many gifts'.

I just want to throw it all in the trash! It makes me feel so bad in so many ways. I want this stuff out of my house.

noddyholder Fri 04-Jan-13 15:35:58

I am in a bit of shock today. My sister and I are v close. My mum was single parent to 3 of us and bad mouthed our father all the time etc etc. We supposedly never really saw him me last when I was 3 my sister 2 and brother conceived but not born (she told me and dsis he only saw brother once when about week old) My sister contacted our father last year as she has NC with mother and needed to see him. Today she has sent me all the photos he gave her and my father was with us loads up until I was about 7 and playing with my brother in loads of pics. I can't remember any of it. All pics with his family at beaches etc laughing having fun I am really shocked I had no idea sad

NewPatchesForOld Fri 04-Jan-13 15:49:07

Haven't had time to catch up with the always surprises (and saddens) me to see how fast this thread moves.

I did see the posts about being slapped round the face for having a hair cut...horrific. It reminded me about an incident my sister told me about but which I had obviously hidden away in the recesses of my mind. When I was little, probably about 7 or 8, my mum took me and my sister into town, and left us outside the post office while she went in. While we waited apparently 2 men approached us and tried to take me away. My sister, who is older, pulled me away and the men disappeared. When my mum came out of the post office my sister told her what had happened, that 2 men had tried to snatch me, and she slapped me round the face!!! I must have encouraged them apparently.

How screwed up is that?

I'll catch up with the posts now...take care all


pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Fri 04-Jan-13 15:55:51

It saddens me at how fast this thread has moved on over christmas and lots today. I wish everyone well in breaking away from these toxic people, especially with it being the new yearwinethanks

HappyNewHissy Fri 04-Jan-13 21:03:32

to be expected pumpkin, just take a look at all the shitty adverts on telly, all happy families, mum does all the work, etc etc.

Not all people live like that.

But we CAN make new families, with our friends.

Cool, a new thread! I can post on new ones, my phone doesn't fall over when they are new!

See you over there!

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