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when will I truly be free??

(25 Posts)
CalpurniaRocks Thu 01-Nov-12 13:35:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Anniegetyourgun Thu 01-Nov-12 13:53:15

Look, the kinder you are, the easier you make everything for him to see his child, the louder he shouts that you are cruel, unreasonable and, in fact, all the things he is. He's just spouting complete nonsense for the sake of being unpleasant - exactly the same as he would have said if you were being difficult, only you aren't. It's as if he's so much expecting one reaction that he just can't see a quite different one is happening. It's totally irrational.

I do question how good it is for DS to spend much time in the company of such an unpleasant individual, who only asks to see his own son more often so that he can sneer at you for seeing him less confused. Maybe it would be better not to be so reasonable, and let him take it to court if he wants more contact. If the judge is at all connected to Planet Earth he may even be awarded less! I realise you may be afraid to do this because of his reaction, though.

I don't know what to suggest other than to keep a record of all correspondence and a detailed diary of just how often he does see DS, in case it ever gets to court or SS have reason to poke their noses in (most likely because of malicious complaints by your ex).

It is so hard when someone you used to love, who is the other parent of your precious child, or even another human being you don't know very well, is spouting bile and unfairness at you. Any reasonable person would be upset by it. But it's not you, it never was you, you don't have a nasty bone in your body, while, by the sound of it, your ex doesn't have a nice one. I bet, I bet he worked out when Christmas was and made the demand specially for that reason. He'll probably start wanting to change it afterwards.

dequoisagitil Thu 01-Nov-12 13:54:46

If he's threatened to kill you, please tell the police and your solicitor (especially if they're text/email messages they can see).

You can't make an unreasonable person see sense or face the truth. What he says is not the reality.

If possible, have a separate phone for him or consider doing all communication/access through third parties.

LizLem0n Thu 01-Nov-12 14:02:18

Totally second doing handovers through third parties. That is the only way I got my freedom.

For the first 18 months I was in a different location but not free. Only when I stopped responding to texts, emails, stopped getting involved with handovers etc.. stopped trying to defend myself (very hard at first) only then did I begin to get my freedom back. You need to communicate to a member of your family or even pay an older babysitter to do the handovers, and delegate the communication about when and where to meet up to that family member or babysitter. The first a hundred texts telling you you're a selfish cunt or whatever are the hardest to ignore. I reeled myself in and hung myself with my desire to defend myself. I thought for years that if I could just make him SEEEEEEEE. Nope, never, never gonna happen. Accept that and work around it and you will get your freedom back. I feel free grin

CalpurniaRocks Thu 01-Nov-12 14:06:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CalpurniaRocks Thu 01-Nov-12 14:08:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Christmas is an exception.

Contact is about what your child needs, not about how your hideous ex can score points off you.

Go back on what you've agreed, stating that as he has decided to take advantage of your flexibility, you have decided to go back to the drawing board.

Keep that text. The use of the word 'didums' while referring to arrangements about your child demonstrates that your ex is using these negotiations as a stick to beat you with. Your solicitor should be made aware of this and will be able to advise you what to do next.

Perhaps it would be best not engage with him at all anymore. Can this all be done through solicitors rather than personal emails and texts between you?

This sounds so bloody stressful, I really feel for you, I really do. He is using the love he knows you have for your child to upset you as much as possible and he sounds like an angry and very nasty man.

There is no need to for you to honour what you have already agreed with him. You have been nice and flexible about it so far....not really working out doing things that way though is it?

I'd be tempted to point out to him first though that his 'didums' comment has illustrated that he is unreasonable in his approach and for that reason you would now prefer to deal with him through lawyers only.Even better get your solicitor to write him a letter pointing this out.

So, no more Mrs Nice Guy I'd say.

dequoisagitil Thu 01-Nov-12 14:18:39

Threatening to kill someone is a 'joke' the police don't tend to appreciate. Don't assume you wouldn't be believed.

Keep any evidence and do tell your solicitor, even if you're not prepared to take it to the police. It is highly unlikely that he's going to become reasonable & civil to deal with, so make sure you hang onto any ammunition he gives you.

Don't cave into unreasonable demands in the hope that he'll stop harassing you - it'll just feed his false sense of entitlement and he'll just want more.

CalpurniaRocks Thu 01-Nov-12 14:22:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LizLem0n Thu 01-Nov-12 14:25:57

two more points. Definitely mention it to the police yes. Ask them to put it on the record. I showed the police the couple of hundred texts id received telling me i was a cunt and the guards made a note of that.

Anti-depressants, yes, I went on them shortly before I left my x and I credit them with just giving me the clarity and the strength to leave. I wondered if they would make me a zombie, anaesthetise me even more so that i would just stumble through the decades before me on auto-pilot, take the edge of the pain so that i could 'accept' the shit life. BUT no they gave me a bit more self-confidence, a bit of clarity, a bit of strength and with those new tools on board I was able to sort out my life, finally. Or put myself on the road to it.
I know anti-depressants get a hammering these days but I can't speak highly enough for the crutch that they were for me at that time.

Don't worry anymore about getting your ex to accept anything. Just forget that.

You can decide here and now that he has tainted enough and you aren't going to allow that anymore. You can be determined.

No more texts, calls or emails. You have been reasonable and flexible up until now, and you have done that for the sake of your ds. But the problem is, that approach takes two. And he's not interested in flexibility and decency. What is REALLY important for your ds is that his mother is in a decent state of health and happiness - so this must become your priority.

You need to concentrate on your self and your ds. You need to prioritise your health. Do all those things you know are good for you, good walks in the fresh air, good food, listening to music and fun dancing with ds, 7/11 breathing (look it up) is really calming, time with friends, and anything else you think will improve things for you. Do not think your ex will become a better person suddenly because that's not going to happen.

If he is unwilling to be constructive with regards to caring for your ds, then he'd better watch out or he'll end up with no sundays and no overnights if he's not careful.

CalpurniaRocks Thu 01-Nov-12 14:48:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LizLem0n Thu 01-Nov-12 14:53:53

yeah that's what I did, it will look better if you stop replying though!!! the guards told me to type them out confused great fun for me, the opposite of positive affirmations sad and then they checked my phone and stamped them and put them away on file somewhere. I'm not inn the UK but I imagine there'd be a similar sort of procedure. Also, don't worry, they didn't ring him and tell him, your x came to us and showed us the texts you have been sending her at 2 am every night for the last few weeks,,,, it was just a reassurance to know that there was a record of them in case things got progressively worse. I also told the guards that I left him because I was afraid of him and that I was still afraid of him....

dequoisagitil Thu 01-Nov-12 14:58:41

Keep the text conversations and show them to your solicitor, who should know how to use them if there is a need to. It's not holding anything against him out of context, it is part of the context. Transcription isn't going to be helpful on its own, as it makes it your word against his, you would need to be able to show the texts themselves.

I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that one, but hopefully someone will come along who does. Don't think calling someone didums can be taken out of context though, maybe you could physically show your solicitor this?

Somehow you need to get yourself in a position where he is unable to say all this stuff to you...

He should have tried 'bonding' with his son when he still lived with him. He is choosing to angle things this way because he knows he will get to you.

When the day comes where you are able to ignore what he says and be dismissive of what he thinks...then you'll be free.

Do you have personal counselling for yourself? If you can manage to arrange/afford this, then perhaps it will help you to out that much needed distance between you?

Dahlen Thu 01-Nov-12 15:01:23

IME the only way to deal with guys like this is to hit them with everything you've got. No contact whatsoever unless strictly necessary and always through a means you can reproduce (e.g. email). Every incident of abuse, however mild, should be recorded. As soon as you have enough, present it to the police and claim harassment. If you have something physical, claim assault, but throw the book at him and use every means at your disposal.

You'll get called every name under the sun, but so what? He's going to do that anyway, even if you're being nice and walked all over. What's the worse he can do? Abuse you more? In which case, call the police. He will end up shooting himself in the foot and hand all power back to you.

The alternative, which can work exceptionally well but is dangerous and risks using your child as a pawn, is to act as though by having your DS your X is doing you a huge favour and allowing you to have an absolutely fabulous social life. You might be surprised how much less he wants contact then...

sorry, 'put' that much needed distance between you

CalpurniaRocks Thu 01-Nov-12 15:20:04

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dahlen Thu 01-Nov-12 15:28:28

That's normal for an abusive ex. It's how they operate. What you need to do i realise that anyone who knows you well should know that he's talking bollocks, and anyone willing to believe that of you is really someone you're better off without. Yes it hurts and seems terribly unjust, but you'll waste valuable time and energy "setting the record straight" which you could instead be using on fighting for what you want and rebuilding yourself a new, better life.

Deep down, a lot of his family and friends will know what he's like anyway, they'll just lack the moral fortitude to call him on it and rock the boat. He wont' have 'real' friends in that sense, no matter how much he's making you feel people are on his side rather than yours.

You can change your life and move on from this. He will probably stay in the same place using the same behaviour and never really know true happiness because abusers can never know what it is to experience love and devotion from someone who isn't there through fear.

dequoisagitil Thu 01-Nov-12 15:31:07

She knows really what he's like, but he's her son.

Don't think that people will believe him - those who know you will know better. And it's doubtful he is able to conceal his true character entirely. His mother knows it and so will others in his family.

And while I wouldn't advise shouting from rooftops, don't cover up for him or pretend you're ok when you're not. Lean on your own friends and family where you can and just believe in yourself - you've done the best you can, but he won't meet you halfway.

Anniegetyourgun Thu 01-Nov-12 15:32:10

Calpurnia, the great bulk of what he says is just a lie. "Everyone knows what you are like" is just one of those lies. If his own family choose to believe it, possibly because it would be horribly shaming to accept the truth, that their own son is a horrible shit who terrorises ex-girlfriends, you can't help that; but most people won't believe a word of it.

LizLem0n Thu 01-Nov-12 15:39:23

I used to care what x's family were told, what they believed too. I couldn't give a shit now. I got nothing but abuse from my x's mum when I first left her precious son. I'd left him on a whim for a easy life blah blah blah. She's given up now.

CalpurniaRocks Thu 01-Nov-12 15:55:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Try to stop giving him so much 'airspace' in your head.

Your thoughts would be much better kept to you, your health and your son, positive, onwards and upwards. He is a complete shit and every minute you spend agonising over him is one of your own minutes wasted when you could be thinking up ways to a better life.

LizLem0n Thu 01-Nov-12 17:21:19

WEll, I didn't get here overnigth. I'm sure the others didn't either!

first of all i had 18 months of torment trying to make sense of it all, why, why why did he treat us with such contempt, why why why could he not see reason. I had counselling. It helped only about as much as any opportunity to vent helped. Mumsnet helped me more.

But at some point I stopped needing the answers so badly. At some point the questions became less important. I had thought I'd go mad without the answers to the questions that did endless laps in my head.

I had psychotherapy last year which helped me a lot, but I think it's too soon for that for you. Just letting you knwo that we didn't all just click our fingers and get to this place. YOU can get there too but don't feel a failure that you can't immediately put him out of your head!

Eventually, I boil the experience down to this. My self-esteem was low when I met him. I should have valued myself more highly and walked away sooner but I had two children with him. I left him finally as was my prerogative. He was an unreasonable man who has not become any more reasonable since I left him.

EVENTUALLY you will get to the point where when somebody asks you about your dc's father you will be able to shrug and say something like that, and you won't need to say more because you don't feel anymore. But it doesn't happen overnight!!

You're doing fine.

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