They are clearing the loft!!

[Spuddybean]

I really need to rant. (Some of you may remember this saga) PILs have banned me from their house (after a few visits they decided i wasn't a nice person because i didn't eat battery eggs, i 'insulted' their xmas tree and didn't agree on their choice of carpet for OUR house), this is not unusual apparently as they have banned everyone other than DP too.

DP recognises their madness but as they are isolated and clearly have MH issues he remains in contact - always in the hope they will come round. I am secretly relieved that i don't have to deal with them, but i do feel so very sad for DP who is heart broken.

Anyway, we recently had a baby which DP hoped would soften them and heal the rift. PILs started going immediately overboard and without any consultation bought everything possible for the baby (cots, prams, clothes etc). Still not acknowledging me. I decided for DPs sake to extend the olive branch and sent a letter thanking them for the stuff and offering that when the baby was born to bring it for a visit. MIL responded quite chattily and said they would be in touch about a visit. They never mentioned it again.

So DP this week decided to bring it up again as he is very upset they have never seen their only gc. He spoke to his mum on Thurs and asked if we could pop by on Sunday (today). She said she would 'talk to' FIL (he is the instigator in all this) and get back to DP. She didn't till this morning and sent an email saying no that they have decided to sort the loft instead. Fair enough if she had said what about x and offered an alternative. But i think it is clear they have no intention of ever see DS.

However, MIL continues to send me chatty emails and posting boxes of crap from car boot sales every week for DS. They also send cards to DS from 'GP's' saying they love him.

I am so angry with them. DP is heartbroken. He is putting a brave face on saying 'well they do need to clear out the loft so i should have known that and it was wrong of me to ask them'. It makes me want to punch something weep.

I have no problem with the no contact with me and DS, but i think the cards and gifts will confuse him when he is older. They will just be strangers writing that they love him.

So WIBU to reply to MILs next email that we are disappointed they don't want to see DS and this level of contact is too confusing for all of us? I know i would and i should leave it to DP, but I just want to protect DP and DS from their insanity.

[Flisspaps]

Personally, I think you need to bin any cards, and make it clear to DP that you will do so. How on earth can they claim to live your DS, having never net him nor biting your fucking hand off at your offer of a visit.

Clearing the loft? I wonder what treasures you'll be offered next week.

Your poor DP. Will he consider counselling to help him grasp that this is not normal?

[Offred]

Oh god! Very hard... I'm torn between you needing to take control of a situation that is damaging you all and your dp a right to choose how he manages his parents. Maybe what is actually needed is that he mans up and takes control himself?

[Spuddybean]

i asked dp how he feels and he said he didn't want to talk about it. he has gone out to do some shopping and i am sitting here looking at ds wondering what to do for both of them.

[Offred]

Sorry but that is just unacceptable! Ok it is hard for him, I have mental (not as bad as this) parents too and he can't just abdicate responsibility for the effects of them on the family!

[Spuddybean]

i think he just meant at that moment offred. it was very raw and i think he needed some space to take it in. we also really needed some shopping!

[Offred]

Ha! Ok, but I think he really needs to be the one that sorts this out otherwise it will make it into a fight between you and his parents with him in the middle and your ds being the one who suffers.

[anastaisia]

From what you've written I have to say I wondered if maybe your MIL would actually quite like to see her DS and DGS but her husband said no to coming round? Is it likely that the communication you do have is coming from her?

Not that it excuses things, but it could be that she doesn't know how to act for the best in that situation either.

[Spuddybean]

oh yes, mil would love to see ds but she wont go against fil. she has already disowned 2 of her children on his say so. she said to me she has to be a good wife. he wont let her leave the house to visit us. if she displeases him she faces punishment by ostracisation - his weapon of choice.

[FlobbadobbaBOO]

Would you get on with your MIL if FIL wasn't around? She does sound desperate to stay in touch.
Just a thought but you do have a very potent weapon in your arsenal now if you have the only GC. Would she leave him? Is staying touch with her grandchild a big enough incentive to get some help? She seems to acknowledge she is in an abusive relationship, would she accept advice from you? (WA etc..).

[DontmindifIdo]

Well, then you need to support your DH, he has probably lived his life feeling that they are entitled to behave in this selfish way, without questioning it, but now it's his DS on the recieving end, he's beginning to find it more hurtful. However bad you feel for your DS, your DH must feel a million times worst.

I would suggest you respond to her messages about seeing DS in a non-commital way, say things like "OK, let me konw when you're free to come over and I'll see if we can do it." Don't arrange anything. For the cards, as long as it's not big overblown messages of love, then it shouldn't be a problem until your DS is older - you can just say "oh, it's a card from Daddy's mummy and daddy" not make a big fuss of reading what it says. As your DS gets older he'll understand they aren't people he sees.

The person who's really going to struggle with this is your DH, his parents are letting him down.

[Spuddybean]

no. i have offered and she says 'what kind of wife would i be' etc. she already abandoned her 5 and 8 year old kids for him. she has to go along with him otherwise realising what a mistake she made then would destroy her. she has already had 2 breakdowns.

[Spuddybean]

Sorry Dontmind i think i have written it confusingly - MIL does not make any suggestions even remotely that she will see ds or visit ever. It is me and DP who ask if we can visit them and they return no, they are clearing the loft and if pushed say they'll 'think about it' and will 'let us know'. They are retired and never leave the house so it isn't like they are busy.

They have never once visited DP in the 12 years since he left home.

I think i agree with the cards tho, just don't make a big deal of them to DS. (they are the wordy dgs you are so special to us type tho which really is insult to injury and they always give DP false hope - this is how they have controlled him all his life, making him feel that things are attainable if he just was better etc my heart breaks for the child he was and i just want to smash FILs stupid face in)

[Offred]

I think a lot of people find they need to confront experiences they had as a child when they become parents. This is on the extreme end of the scale. His dm is being kept in isolation based on the threat of isolation - mad!

MIL clearly needs help from women's aid and it could be helpful to suggest it to her and make it clear that they will support her without forcing her to leave. Your DP probably needs some therapy and maybe some counselling to unpick the personal effects on him too I would say. The cards cannot continue, that needs to be stopped.

Sometimes victims of abuse don't recognise that is what they have experienced if they are still suffering the effects of it and having it confronted from outside the abuse can make the victim withdraw and protect the abuser. In this situation although FIL is the primary abuser, by failing to protect your DP MIL is a secondary abuser of him and he may be strongly motivated to act in ways he sees as "protecting" her even though she is likely frequently sacrificing him to save herself from FIL. It is complicated, if you pick this scab potentially MIL will recoil back into FIL who will escalate controlling behaviours in response to the threat and DP may choose to side with them because the alternative (confronting the abuse) is worse - is there any chance of that?

[PickledFanjoCat]

I would keep in touch with mil on email but not suggest another visit.

[roses2]

Please keep in contact with MIL for her sake, she seems to be trying really hard. Send her photos, emails etc but don't offer visits since she seems to have been told she is not allowed so this may only cause her more distress.

[mameulah]

The crap from the car boot sales, you have my sympathy! How annoying!!! Never mind the rest of it.

I think the MIL sounds really sad, lonely and quite stupid. If I was you I would do NOTHING. The ball is absolutely in their court. They know where you are and if they want to share your family with you then they can do it but it will have to be on your terms. If you do send Christmas cards you could perhaps post one with a photo of your son and dc, maybe make her realise how much she is missing out on.

But, speaking as someone who has extremely dysfunctional IL's (I bet I could raise you on every story you have!!!) if they are happy with it being at arms length you might be wise to leave it there.

Do you really want to patch it up and then have to compromise where you spend Christmas etc? Be careful, I have made that mistake in the past. First it is a cup of tea and then before you know it they think you are ruddy friends with them.

Careful what you wish for!

[Spuddybean]

i am torn, i go back and forth with the mil issue. she is also an abuser in her own way. she sends dp terrible emails. she treats him as her partner (they have joint bank accs etc). it is like she replaced fil with him and fil is jealous. i don't know what came first. they are both as fucked up as each other.

both were terribly abused by their fathers as children.

it's a bag of horror.

[PickledFanjoCat]

God how awful. Your poor dp, it's a real dilemma.

[Offred]

he has a joint account with her?! Oh god... That really is terribly difficult...

[Offred]

But at some point, and I say this very kindly, your DP needs to make a choice to be a survivor of abuse and not become an abuser by failing to protect his own dc as his mother did.

[Spuddybean]

He doesn't see it as abuse and actually thinks they are good parents! DS wont have this as they wont have access to him. They will just be strangers who send him cards and gifts - like overseas relatives i suppose.

He has a joint account with me which he uses but they also have one together from before.

[Offred]

At some point you may need to choose between your DP and your DS then.

[Spuddybean]

mameulah - they would never be able to patch it up to that extent, they aren't that high functioning. They cannot be around people. They are self imposed recluses because other people cause them astonishing anxiety. They don't do normal things like out for coffee/dinner/shopping etc

[Spuddybean]

oh no offred, it would never come to that. DP rarely see's them so the effect they have on our relationship is usually negligible. They will now see him even less and he is becoming less affected and more angry by them.

He just said if they don't want to see us as a family then 'fuck them'! Which i think is the route we are going down. It's just so sad.

My parents are difficult but these make them look perfect. Actually M&D have been amazing since DS came along, which just makes DP sadder.

[Mintyy]

"I think the MIL sounds really sad, lonely and quite stupid"

Crikey, I don't think that. It reads to me like she is under the thumb of an emotional abuser, the type of woman who usually garners a great deal of sympathy and understanding on Mumsnet.

You are in a very difficult situation Spuddy and I feel for you.