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Dh owns property and we also have no will, anybody else in this situation?

(43 Posts)
feelokaboutit Sat 29-Sep-12 10:11:03

I have told him what happens in the case of his dying before me intestate but he refuses to get involved in the discussion or do any research. First of all telling me that I had got my information off "bitches and cows" on the internet, then when I told him I had got it off a government website he made sarcastic comments wondering why I had been doing research in the first place. The fact of the matter is that if I die before him his life does not change in a practical way at all, but if the reverse happens, my life and the children's lives would have to change a lot.... What I can't understand is why, just for the sake of the children, he wouldn't at least inform himself.

Our relationship is not good and we are in counselling so there is a lot of mistrust between us, but I find that this issue really pulls me down emotionally...

I suppose one of my questions is whether I am being "greedy" and should really live in the present rather than worry about an intangible future??

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 29-Sep-12 10:19:12

You're not being greedy, you're being practical. Anyone with dependants is well-advised to think ahead a little and do things like making wills, taking out a little life-insurance and other simple measures. In the meantime, of course, there is nothing stopping you making your own will.... and, given that he thinks you're stupid and 'greedy', you're quite entitled to skip him completely and leave everything in trust to your DCs. While you're at the solicitor's, ask about your rights in the event of a divorce. I think you'll find that the property DH owns is technically 50% yours. Joint counselling never works with bullies.....

OrangeImperialGoldBlether Sat 29-Sep-12 10:20:39

Here you are:

*Married partners or civil partners inherit under the rules of intestacy only if they are actually married or in a civil partnership at the time of death. So if you are divorced or if your civil partnership has been legally ended, you can’t inherit under the rules of intestacy. But partners who separated informally can still inherit under the rules of intestacy.

If there are surviving children, grandchildren or great grandchildren of the person who died and the estate is valued at more than £250,000, the partner will inherit:
•all the personal property and belongings of the person who has died, and
•the first £250,000 of the estate, and
•a life interest in half of the remaining estate. This means that if you are entitled to the life interest, you cannot get rid of or spend that part of the estate. You can, however, have the benefit of it during your lifetime.*

OrangeImperialGoldBlether Sat 29-Sep-12 10:22:35

There's more on the site I got that - if you tell us how much he has, I'll print the rest if necessary.

feelokaboutit Sat 29-Sep-12 10:26:20

The thing about me making my own will though is that at the moment I have very little to leave anyone, a small amount of money in a savings account.

Thanks for the information Orange - I have also researched this, however since we live in London this set up would definitely mean the children and I having to move. I am also worried that I would, later in life, have to be dependent on my children. At the moment I am a SAHM so I suppose I feel vulnerable and dependent.

We also have no life insurance (which I suppose is a slightly different issue as it is expensive and money is tight), which adds to the whole intestate situation because before any of the above could come into play, the property would definitely have to be sold to pay off the mortgage.

Had I thought more clearly about all of this when I was younger, I would not have allowed myself to become so dependent.

feelokaboutit Sat 29-Sep-12 10:27:27

I think wills are very difficult things to think about.

Lavenderhoney Sat 29-Sep-12 10:38:07

Hi, you must have life insurance- its compulsory for a mortgage. See if you can find your mortgage papers and deeds and the information should be there. It normally covers the mortgage only, so you will still have your house. Is the house in both your names? If not you do need a will or at least advice- from citizens advice bureau, it's free, just look up your local one.

A will is a good idea anyway as you can stipulate who takes care of the kids if you both get killed- heaven forbid. Plus house can be sold and trustees appointed etc.

If you are having relationship issues I can see why he might feel odd discussing it! You do have things perhaps, jewellery you might like for dc.. Etc. a will stops it being sold or given elsewhere. We have just don our will and it was hard but glad we did it.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 29-Sep-12 10:42:20

Wills are only difficult to think about for the deluded type that believes they will never die. Or the greedy type that don't like the idea of anyone else getting their hands on 'my money'. Life insurance is very affordable, btw. Just depends on how much you want to insure yourself for.

If being so dependent on this man bothers you and makes you feel insecure and worried for the future why stay an SAHM? How about getting a job & making yourself less dependent? Childcare costs are admittedly steep if you're in London but there is help available from things like tax credits if you qualify.

A man that refers to women as 'bitches and cows' and responds to a reasonable conversation about inheritance planning with sarcasm and scorn is not a man you want to plan being with long-term.

feelokaboutit Sat 29-Sep-12 10:45:28

sad that is how I feel too cogito but I think both of us cannot bear the thought of spending some/any time apart from our 3 dcs (6, 8 and 10) were we to separate...
agree about trying to become more independent but I do not have the ability to pull in the big bucks so spend a lot of my time feeling slightly hopeless...

mumblechum1 Sat 29-Sep-12 10:49:26

I'm sorry but you are absolutely right, if your partner dies and you don't have joint assets you are entitled to nothing from his estate under intestacy law, and so you would have to go through court under the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependents) Act 1975. You are likely to be successful, but the time, emotional and financial cost would be considerable.

I'm a will writer and for anyone who's interested, have an advert over on Classified (Small Business).

SarahBumBarer Sat 29-Sep-12 10:51:03

I don't really understand the issue [thick]. I completely agree that wills are a good thing but if he is your DH as opposed to DP what would having a will achieve for you that the rules of intestacy do not? The issue seems to be more the lack of life insurance? And I agree with Lavender - it has been a condition of every mortgage I have ever had that there be mortgage term assurance taken out to cover the mortgage in the event of death (and usually critical illness) so I would double check this - it sometimes just gets lost in the whole mortgage payment/agreement.

You are not being greedy. Wills should not be that hard to think about - it is a question of your family's welfare especially once there are children. I recently had to discuss my dad's will with him because I wanted to know what provision he had made for his girlfriend (I correctly assumed none) and more importantly what he actually wanted me to do for her in the event of his death. That was hard to broach as I was very concerned about looking grasping/making it clear that I was genuinely concerned about her welfare but I would never hesitate to discuss such matters with my DH and we do have some delicacies in our situation.

Jax2218 Sat 29-Sep-12 10:51:29

My father died many years ago while I was under 10. He didn't leave a will and did not have life insurance! My mum was a a sahm then but had to find a job, unfort she couldn't afford to place any cash into a pension fund. So now she lives on the basic state pension after redundancy! Thankfully the house was owned before my dads death, but she struggles to afford its maintenance or anything really! She coped but its been a struggle, it still is a struggle 20+ years on.

mumblechum1 Sat 29-Sep-12 10:53:03

Sorry, misread, I thought OP was talking about a partner, not a husband. In that case OP, you would be entitled to the first £250k, and a life interest in half of the balance, with the rest going to your children.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 29-Sep-12 10:53:23

Maybe look at it this way. Children brought up in households where mum is so cowed and bullied that she can't bring up a reasonable conversation about their future without dad getting nasty will think that is how normal adult relationships play out... and this can have a disastrous effect on their own relationships in turn.

Children between 6 and 10 need neither a SAHM nor the full-on, expensive child-care that smaller children require. You may not find a job paying 'big bucks' but anything that gets you out of the house, engaging with other adults and leaves you with a few £££ in your pocket at the end of the month has to be better than the trap you're currently in.

Bilbobagginstummy Sat 29-Sep-12 10:55:29

Just to say that life insurance isn't compulsory for a mortgage: I've had 3 mortgages all on repayment basis and have no life insurance (couldn't get it even if I wanted it due to health).

If you are married then you get everything up to the amounts above (OrangeImperial...'s post). Mumblechum is talking about a different situation - it is not relevant if you are actually married.

SarahBumBarer Sat 29-Sep-12 10:55:49

mumblechum I cross posted with you - I was not directing my original post at you, just generally confused about the issue from reading the OP but you have confirmed that I am clearly missing why OP is quite so concerned (still think wills are a good thing though even within marriages).

Bilbobagginstummy Sat 29-Sep-12 10:56:07

xpost re Mumblechum - but you get the picture.

SarahBumBarer Sat 29-Sep-12 10:57:55

Depends on the mortgage Bilbo. My previous 3 mortgages have all had conditions in them requiring term assurance. Funnily enough I am in the process of remortgaging and there is no such condition but I have been able to demonstrate that I am EASILY worth more dead than alive shock so maybe that makes the difference!

feelokaboutit Sat 29-Sep-12 11:26:22

Thanks for posts everyone.

I am not knocking getting the first 250 k etc... which is partly why I asked if I was being greedy. However if dh were to die before me, there would be the fees connected to intestacy as well as the fact that 250 k would mean the kids and I would have to move and have our lives completely disrupted, when with something as simple as both of us filling out a form, all of this could be avoided. I also feel that the intestacy law turns me into a dependant, rather than a "co-creator" as it were. If all passes to me upon his death, it then naturally passes to the kids when I die. I am offended that h doesn't think it is worth discussing or finding out about other than to tell me that what I am telling him is simply not true. There is no arguing with him about this because if he doesn't read the info he can simply go on telling me this.

All of the above also puts me in a much weaker position in my old age than I need be and this relates to what I was saying about not wanting to be dependent on my kids.

The life insurance is a different issue and I am sure we do not have any. When I mentioned this dh crossly said I should go off and pay for it then which maybe I should do but it is a difficult thing to do in the current climate between us, however it is true that I probably don't actually need his "permission" for this.

I know working would mean contact with other adults etc.... which is really important cogito. Since my youngest has been at school I have been volunteering at school, done a course to be a teaching assistant and applied for some jobs (I also had one interview). However TA posts are really competitive!
I am probably being too downbeat about everything but part of me feels too old (43) and washed up !!! Sorry to be a downer!

All of this sometimes makes me feel like throwing the towel in and saying, you know what, we clearly don't get on, lets call it a day. I would then have the next 20 years or so to try to become really independent and financially "able" and therefore in control of my own destiny rather than leaving it all the responsiblity to someone who does not like me all that much!

mumblechum1 Sat 29-Sep-12 11:32:21

sad. With my divorce lawyer hat on, OP, if it makes you feel any more optimistic about the future, you would be likely to get more than half of the assets if you divorce, irrespective of the fact that they may currently be in your husband's name.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 29-Sep-12 11:36:08

I think you're downbeat because you're living with this grumpy, sarcastic, arse who doesn't like you and doesn't take you seriously. I'd normally recommend seeing a GP to eliminate the possibility that you're depressed or get some medication. But, in your case, I think the cause of your very low mood and lack of confidence is the big ugly thing sitting opposite you at the breakfast table every morning, telling you that you're an idiot.

It wouldn't be 'throwing in the towel' to call it a day therefore - that's far too negative. It would be an extremely positive step in making the most of the rest of your life and the lives of your DCs.

Bilbobagginstummy Sat 29-Sep-12 11:46:44

Sarah - I daresay that there are mortgages that require life insurance. I was just countering the categorical assertions that all mortgages require it.

elizaregina Sat 29-Sep-12 11:48:40

i feel really sorry for you that you even think you might be greedy about thinking about your own property - as you are maried - so i assume whats his is yours anyway? so how cna thinking about it be greedy - he doesnt own property - you both own property - you are married!

skyebluesapphire Sat 29-Sep-12 14:26:19

My solicitor and mediation both advised that you can insure anybody so you could insure him. Life insurance is not compulsory for a mortgage but is sensible if you don't want to lose the house should one of you die.

If you have children then you should make a will, it is only fair to them.

I'm just making a new will due to divorce, to ensure that my DD gets everything.

JuliaScurr Sat 29-Sep-12 19:34:38

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