Need some help.(sorry long)

[KillerRack]

This is about my relationship with my DF.
he has been a convert (islam) for a long time like over 10 years. the thing is he is fanatical will lecture you on and on and getting funny with you and can be quite unpleasant if you are not seen to be 'listening'.
I have always on some level suspected MH issues he is very paranoid and very into conspiracies more so than is healthy, he throws around some wierd accusations about his last work place and tbh I suspect his wierd ideas make him unemployable.
he does have hygiene/appearance issue but atm my main concern is the above.
I confronted him recently about missing important occasions and that if he wanted to be considered part of the family he should be more bothered about our feelings. I also pulled him up on a few time where he was aware his sermoning was making me very embarrassed but he continued, to the point where I needed to leave the room. (growing up such a fanatic created a lot of panic/anxiety problems in me).
I basically said if he didn't avoid that subject around me I wouldn't see him because he blatantly disregards my feelings as he feels its so important.
I recognise this is harsh but like I said to him , (getting married ) I need to reign him in so I am not spending my big day worrying about his behavior.

In 3 long and draining callsI have not had ,
An apology.
An apology for all missed occasions.
A guarantee it wont happen again. (If I ask him to promise he gets very arsy)

He said he can sense shadowy figures and mind control and it makes him angry, and we are bullying him.
Went ballistic when I said if he embarrassed me again he would be asked to leave.
Said I just want to help and 'get you sorted' 'he has concerns' he wants to meet for a more 'in depth conversation'.
Tbh I'm very drained and panicky and need some good ways to disengage and deal.
Please help I'm at a loss.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Definitely MH issues. I recognise a lot of what you describe from a member of my own family who went on to be diagosed with paranoid schizophrenia. Paranoia, shadowy figures, bizarre beliefs, mind control ... even down to the hygiene and appearance problems, it all sounds horribly familiar. Not saying your DF has the same condition exactly but he certainly needs to be referred to a mental health professional for assessment. He's not acting rationally, you can't expect him to behave the way others behave and - above all - you really shouldn't expect to be able to deal with this solo. I'm sorry you've been suffering the knock-on effects for so long

In my family's case, because the person would no longer leave the house because she believed people were spying on her etc, we got hold of her GP and had them make a visit on some pretext. Could you get hold of your DF's doctor?

[pictish]

Yes...it definitely sounds like a mental health issue to me too.

[KillerRack]

I think actually he is alluding to me controlled rather that 'I can see shadowy figures'.

He doesn't hallucinate.

But yeah the paranoia craziness but then I think what if he's just a really bug cunt I.e embarrassing me deliberately.

[KillerRack]

*big.

[KillerRack]

Sorry to double post.
I have no idea if he even has one
I mean I wouldn't want to get him sectioned or anything.
But I wonder if there are any ways to deal with him efficiently?.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

He may simply be a nasty individual that likes to browbeat people (you) but, from what you describe earlier... paranoid, likes conspiraces, weird accusations, fanatical religious views, poor personal care, total absence of empathy, belief that his DD's mind is being controlled by shadowy figures .... those are not uncommon signs of a very unwell mind.

No-one's saying to get him sectioned but he does need to be seen by medical professionals. If he is mentally ill he needs treatment, medication and therapies. If he was coughing up blood or covered in lesions you wouldn't be wondering how to deal with it efficiently. You'd be accompanying him to A&E.

What I did was to call around the main GP practices in my relative's town until I found the one she was registered with. They were very helpful, she got treatment, and is now stable, much happier and living more normally.

[KillerRack]

Oh good ,
I wonder Cogito how did you start that conversation with her? must have been hard.
yeah trying to have a conversation is a complete waste of time everything he does is someone else s fault, most relatives are embarrassing but this is a different league.
Plus I worry the stigma affecting my children too. as selfish as I may sound.
I know religious people who don't bang on about it all the time.

I haven't heard from him today, he still insists on hour long phone calls but will not guarantee/apologize for anything.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I couldn't have a conversation with her, that was the problem. No-one could. Or rather, we could have a conversation and it obviously made a lot of sense from her perspective but, to anyone else, it was a very disturbing load of old cobblers. She wasn't aggressive at that stage but my fear was that, left untreated, she would end up that way or maybe do herself some harm. She never apologised for anything she said because, in her version of reality, everything she said was totally reasonable. It was heartbreaking to see her so detached from reality.

As for stigma, that's for you to square away I'm afraid. Presented with a much-loved family member struck low with an illness, even if it's an embarrassing or upsetting one, I will fight tooth and nail to get them treatment. If others want to judge me or my family based on some out-dated prejudice, stuff them.

[KillerRack]

I've not heard anything for 2 days, I feel a huge relief but I know I will probably have another phone call later on.
I feel guilty for thinking that.

I rang my mum to update her incase he turns up in an arsy mood.

[KillerRack]

As for stigma, that's for you to square away I'm afraid. Presented with a much-loved family member struck low with an illness, even if it's an embarrassing or upsetting one, I will fight tooth and nail to get them treatment. If others want to judge me or my family based on some out-dated prejudice, stuff them.

I meant the stigma of his fanatical behaviour impacting on my children I.e bullying. That's another issue as well my DF is not unfortunately a 'much loved' member through his own doing unfortunately, treat my mother like shit (affairs well into double figures) took aggressive temper out on me and now they are seperated If he comes round to help out with siblings and my mum is going out and he won't tell her where she's going he really kicks off, he stood infront of her car once and the other day he saw a car behind my mums which actually was her new one and kicked the front door open. which really freaks me out as shes obviously someone who lives alone. Sorry to drip feed, but this is not 'dear old dad' there are many issues.
I can understand in your aunts case you wanted to help.

[seaofyou]

He sounds unwell. Can you ask him to see GP or if a Doctor can come to the house to discuss these shadowy figures and mind control. They can get a psychiastrist or other member of MH Team to visit him at home.
What lies underneath the illness may still be what you have experienced all these years but sounds unwell on top!
BTW seeing shadowy figures are very common visual hallucuinations
Agree with Cognito

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

You mean you think your children will get bullied because their grandad has mental health issues? Or do you mean you think grandad will do the bullying?

If you add aggression, violence and a complete absence of personal morals to the mix of symptoms you've already mentioned then he's still potentially got a complex mental problem. You said at the outset "I need to reign him in so I am not spending my big day worrying about his behavior." If you're serious about this reining in, then I think you have to go the medical route.

[KillerRack]

Sorry if my post was unclear , when I was on the phone he said 'I can sense shadowy figures' and saying I have been in a mind control programme because I'm talking in blocks'.
Thats his way of alluding to shadowy figures controlling me. he is very paranoid.conspiracy wise.
He has never hallucinated but has paranoia.Tbh I actually got the impression he is alluding to my DP being 'behind this' that's how I took it.

I mean i am worried my children will get bullied because he will talk to people very fanatically about religion and still continue and has said he will deliberately make me uncomfortable, as awful as I'm sure it makes me sound I have to protect my children as there was nobody to protect me. we live in a small town.
I dont live with him and I am thinking how mentioning medical help would go down and he would be like you are trying to put me away! which I'm not.
If he refuses where do I go from there??.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

My cousin (not aunt) didn't think she needed a GP either because, in her mind, she was thoroughly rational. There was no point saying 'shall I call the doctor?' because it would have been like talking to a brick wall. That's why I say call his GP yourself, explain the symptoms as you have in this thread, say you are very worried that he is unwell, and ask them to make a home visit. In my cousin's case, following a period of hospital treatment and continued medication, she is much calmer, much happier and much more rational.

Your father's behaviour right now seems crazy enough to attract comment in a small town. How you think it would be any worse for your kids if he was being treated in hospital instead I can't really understand.

[KillerRack]

Thats why I want to help him/ help himself as in time it will affect my children, if his behaviour goes unchecked.

I'm in a very diffiicult situation emotionally, as I don't want to leave him as if I do who will help him?, people have distanced themselves. But he can be a really nasty piece of work and has said he doesn't mind humiliating me so its quite tempting to leave him to rot tbh (I know thats awful).
He hasn't contacted me in 2 days which is odd possibly stewing, I have told him that I want an apology and if he deliberately humiliates me again I will kick him out, he went ballistic and I feel guilty.
Or should I just accept a life that will be ultimately destroyed by a choice I didn't make? :'(

[KillerRack]

Did your cousin live apart from you?.

[KillerRack]

I think if he rings again, and he starts with strange things , I will perhaps be direct like.

"do you realise that what your saying makes you sound really unwell? "

or

"Are you joking or do you really mean that? because I'm really concerned for your health if you do?".

[GlibGlobGloo]

Whose life do you think will be ruined?

With the correct medication, his life will improve massively.

[KillerRack]

If he accepts it. that is,

if he continue and doesn't accept help my life will be ruined
he doesn't care about humiliating me or my family.
he said that on the phone call.

[GlibGlobGloo]

But what does that mean? How could he humiliate you enough to ruin your life?

[GlibGlobGloo]

In my experience (family with many MH issues, also some close friends), if you are concerned enough to know that medical intervention is needed, trying to persuade them to take the initiative is not only futile, but dangerous. My mother is a paranoid schizophrenic, and mention of the doctors especially when she's most unwell, would cause her to be convinced I'm out to get her, so she would cut off all contact.

What I have done a number of times (sadly a couple of times as a child) is get doctors in place to make a section. It requires 2 different doctors, so I have usually contacted her local GP and psychiatric nurse, who will then contact a psychiatrist to make an assessment.

[seaofyou]

if df refuses not much can be done sorry until he is at a stage where he is at risk to self or others. It does not sound like he is currently.
Does he have young children...do you have siblings under 17 years old?

[KillerRack]

That my children and me would be bullied, tarnished by his behaviour.
he has had opportunities before but refused but allowed me to be bullied etc because of his behaviour etc I grew up in a small town.
I do feel fragile because of his behaviour.

He's not just a 'crazy old man' he can be quite scary and intimidating.

[KillerRack]

No he is not as severe as many cases described on here. he does go out, he lives alone, none of my siblings under 17.

he's just a mess tbh and likes to be very 'controlling' i.e the abusive behaviour towards my mother.
I've given him an ultimatum and instead of apologizing he is saying I have bee mind controlled and that people 'trip him up' in conversations, but will admit he deliberately continued to embarrass me. its hard to see where arsehole ends and MH issues start.

[GlibGlobGloo]

The door kicking incident - that would come under 'risk'. Is he able to feed and look after himself properly? Does he drink? Ah, that reminds me, he's muslim. Is there an immam or someone else in his mosque you could talk to?