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Separation & beyond.. Lala goes forth!!!

(636 Posts)
LalaDipsey Wed 01-Aug-12 18:49:07

Hi everyone. Well, the saga continues. H turned up for his single 'abuse assessment session' on Monday to find that the counsellor had, by mistake, booked him in for Wednesday instead of Monday! I was fuming!
I spoke to them and said it may just be one more week to them, but to me I had mentally psyched myself up for H to have this DV assessment and was then ready for a session this Monday coming either together or on my own. Nothing could be done but I was gutted as I had hoped us to be significantly further along by next week and now we won't be.
On the plus side, night 3 of sleep training tonight so hoping for a massive improvement.
Had no idea what to call this thread... Felt this was still the right place as I extricate us from this relationship but I hope by the time this reaches 1000 posts H has either moved out, or is living here whilst the divorce is being processed so I hope the title sums that up!!
Thanks for everyone still with me

LalaDipsey Thu 06-Dec-12 07:16:28

Thankyou for sharing that. Very helpful. I can completely see what you mean - you have articulated very well.
I heed to make a solicitors appt for next week and get a fixed date in my head. 20th Jan.
He's read the letter now - says he's bruised & battered. I said it wasn't written to hurt him, I just started writing how I felt and it all came out. He sent back 'good for you?'
Now, whilst I get he is 'bruised & battered', that letter was in the main how he made me feel. no mention of that is there? No 'oh my goodness Lala, that has really hurt me but gosh I hadn't realised my behaviour/drinking affected you like that. I am so sorry'
Just about him. As you said! Which is good really.
MrsTomHardy - I have to start off being reasonable. We don't have loads of money, Xmas is almost here, I have to live with my decisions. I don't think it's fair, after living together for 16 yrs to say 'get out now'. We co-own the house and legally I can't make him go, so I am glad he is agreeing to as if he put his foot down I'd be stuck!

NotGoodNotBad Thu 06-Dec-12 08:36:37

"he's bruised & battered" hmm

After all he's done to you? What a nerve he's got to say that to you!

RedMolly Thu 06-Dec-12 10:33:32

I wasn't going to post anymore as you didn't seem to want to hear what i had to say, but just wanted to add two things.

Really happy you are taking these steps, and i hope you don't allow his lack of cooperation to put the breaks on the progress you're making. I hope you now stop doing stuff for him, and start separating your lives on a practical level.

SS - you've managed to say everything i've been trying to (though from the pov of child rather than partner), but for more effectively. So glad you have got the life you deserve now.

AbigailAdams Thu 06-Dec-12 11:24:28

Really Lala stop trying to be "fair". Your version of fair and his version differ wildly. He doesn't understand fair unless fair means he gets to do what he wants to do. He is agreeing now, but when the time comes you may have a problem getting him out and then you'll see what the rest of the women on here are talking about. If you get an opportunity to get him out take it. Otherwise he will regroup and it will be twice as hard the next time.

This man is abusive. You cannot have a mutually amicable break up with an abusive man.

Let it go. Stop feeling responsible for his feelings. He has put himself in this position, not you.

FiercePanda Thu 06-Dec-12 12:43:29

Your version of fair and his version differ wildly. He doesn't understand fair unless fair means he gets to do what he wants to do. [...] Let it go. Stop feeling responsible for his feelings. He has put himself in this position, not you.

I have to highlight this, it is so so so true. He's not living on the same planet as you Lala (god, not even the same universe) regarding fairness, equality, decency etc. I know it's in your nature to be accommodating, fair, willing to see things from both sides and come to a mutual agreement but it's not in his nature, and he won't do it. It's not part of his language, he doesn't want to understand what you're trying to do, and he sure as hell won't show any fairness or compassion to you when the time comes.

I agree with having a date to be out by, but I worry that he'll ignore it. How often has he actually listened to something you've said, paid attention, and done what's been asked of him? Never. Please don't expect him to suddenly change for the better now, just because you're going to tell him he's got until the 20th. I will bet my last £ that unless you have family and legal back-up, he'll be sat on his arse in your house on the 21st, drinking and smirking.

You have got to put yourself and DCs first in all situations from now on and IGNORE his emotional blackmail. He's coming back today, isn't he? Whatever he says, no matter how hurtful he is, let it wash right over you and don't show any emotion. Respond with a pithy "I'm sorry that's how you feel. I'm not discussing it anymore" and leave the room. Do not engage him in any way, unless it's about when he's leaving. He'll be wanting confirmation that he's still the one in control. The only way you can prove he's not is by not letting him press your buttons, and not getting into any form of discussion about his feelings/needs/desires/problems etc. All you need to talk about is when he's moving.

Thinking of you, Lala. x

blackcurrants Thu 06-Dec-12 12:54:24

Your scummyH is going to come back from this letter in one of two ways, I predict. Either it will be ALL about his emotions, how he feels, how it's your fault and he's so sad boo hoo hoo.

OR he will be oddly flippant and extremely good with the kids, for about half a breath, but for long enough to leave your brain whirling.

Whatever he does, remember this awful truth: Your H doesn't care about you at all.

STOP CARING ABOUT HIM and care about you and your children's welfare instead. Make a date by which he must be out, and start getting extremely legal.

He enjoys watching you suffer. He WILL smirk and ignore what you want (because let's face it, that's what he's done for the length of this thread, and longer!) - and so you have to make him do the right thing, and get out and stay gone.

Wishing you luck today. Don't be afraid of having your mum/ a friend around when you give him a date to leave. Let him know that you're not hiding the breakup from anyone, that you're not ashamed of what he's done, it's his to bear.

mathanxiety Thu 06-Dec-12 15:36:42

Lala -- it is all about him in his own mind.
As Stockholmsyndrome said:

He played the victim/martyr to the end. To the end Lala, and all that I gave him was my TIME.

There is nothing to stop him putting his foot down any time he wants to. So far he has tried avoiding the issue, getting too drunk to talk about it, etc. but there is nothing stopping him getting plain stubborn. Playing fair doesn't mean he will reciprocate. From past form I think you need to expect him to play dirty and manipulative. There is absolutely no reason to expect anything else.

We don't have loads of money
The money 'we' have is money you and the children have. Start using the words Me and I and Mine.

I am glad you are getting to the solicitor soon. Ask the solicitor how he can be shifted. That is the most important immediate question that you need to see to. Ask about court orders.

NoWayNoHow Thu 06-Dec-12 18:27:08

*Lala& this article by Lundy Bancroft might help come in handy re: Math and others' advice about involving your family and friends and telling them what's happening.

LalaDipsey Thu 06-Dec-12 19:01:30

.... Should have taken bets.... 'Disney Dad' has come home...!

hillyhilly Thu 06-Dec-12 19:15:21

Quelle surprise!! There's a half decent chance he'll go easy on the alcohol for a weekend or two as well.
Just like last time
Oh so predictable (& too little too late)
I think you need to find your anger again Lala, reread the things he has done, swearing at newborns and your older child and you for a toothbrush plus so many other incidents, jot them down somewhere, not for him to read but just to remind yourself what a selfish, useless man he is.
Good luck, you need to be strong in the face of this "performance".

SecrectFarleysNibbler Thu 06-Dec-12 21:36:14

Well here we go again! He is 'booking' his place for Christmas - your next post will be - can't make him go over Christmas, DTs birthday - can I remind you he had no issue in banishing your birthday for how many years? 20th Jan is OVER a month away. Lala -- DON'T loose momentum - you have said its over and you need to back it straight p and get him out. It doesn't matter if you co-own the house - you are not selling it - you need him out for emotional reasons. Every day you delay him going is another day he beds back in until you are back to square one. You are to be applauded over your actions this week but you need to keep pushing forward. Did you visualise those scales??? Why should he come to your mums for Christmas?? He has shown so little interest in your dc so far - what difference is Christmas going to make?? He needs to hear some strong messages from you. A new mantra - Too little, too late - repeat, repeat, repeat!

mathanxiety Thu 06-Dec-12 21:45:10

If he seriously thinks he can go to your mum's for Christmas then he is testing her and your dad to see if they are pushovers or if they will back you up. Or are you still planning to go to your mum's for Christmas?

blackcurrants Thu 06-Dec-12 23:13:56

oh god yes, I'd forgotten that he decreed that he couldn't POSSIBLY celebrate your birthday because of blah blah blah he's a big tool and likes to torture you.

You can't seriously be thinking it'd work to invite him for a family christmas? Go to your mum's without him. People who are divorcing don't do big fake family christmases. GO and have a good time WITHOUT worrying about him!

GoldQuintessenceAndMyhrr Thu 06-Dec-12 23:27:30

Seriously go without him. Enjoy Christmas with your parents, your children, people who actually LOVE you.

LalaDipsey Fri 07-Dec-12 07:10:40

I thought it would be best for dc to see their dad at Xmas? I haven't discussed it yet with H, although I have told him
I and dc are going to my parents. What I thought would be ok is if I and dc go Xmas eve to Boxing Day and H drove over for Xmas day if he wanted to? Or he could goto his sisters?
Next steps - I called the solicitor yday who was out at court and due to call back today. I will then tell H I have spoken to a solicitor who has recommended getting X drawn up when he moves out in January so he needs to start looking, and what he needs to pay with regards to maintenance.
I have to mention it tonight and push forwards or you're all so right he will ignore again. After dc were in bed last night it didn't get mentioned so I have to tonight or he will think it's gone away again.

GoldQuintessenceAndMyhrr Fri 07-Dec-12 08:31:17

I am sure it is fine if he comes to visit his children at some point during Christmas, but not stay with them and "play happy families" getting drunk, ignoring you, and generally make it as miserable as life in general is for him.

NoWayNoHow Fri 07-Dec-12 09:42:02

What I thought would be ok is if I and dc go Xmas eve to Boxing Day and H drove over for Xmas day if he wanted to?

You do realise that he will drive over and drink till he can't legally drive and then "oh dear, sorry, had a bit too much, is it okay if I stay?"

I thought it would be best for dc to see their dad at Xmas? In what state? Fake Dad who is unpredictable as to when he'll turn, causing mixed emotinos and confusion? Drunk Dad who will swear and throw and kick? Lazy Dad who will sit around all day watching TV while you and your family slave over the Xmas meal as well as trying to look after 3 kids?

Sound like a recipe for disaster.

hillyhilly Fri 07-Dec-12 10:04:29

I don't know the logistics, but maybe he should stay at his sisters and visit the kids for an hour on Christmas Day, before driving back home or to his sisters (or wherever, that's not your problem). He does not have the god-given right to spend the day with you and your family now that you are separated.
Of course all of that, while entirely reasonable, does require sobriety.

AbigailAdams Fri 07-Dec-12 10:56:48

No really, it isn't better for your children to see their Dad at Xmas. At least not for any length of time.

Leave him to wallow in his wine self-pity.

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Fri 07-Dec-12 11:01:34

If you want to have him round your parents' like the spectre at the feast, be prepared for DisneyDad/loving H, the one who doesn't call his wife a fucking stupid bitch, fucking cow, etc, just to mess with your head and paint you as unstable.

If you asked him what he'd like for Christmas, anything, he'd say, adoption papers. Or a time machine. Or booze.

If you were my DD I'd not let him in my house.

blackcurrants Fri 07-Dec-12 12:03:43

Yeah, I agree with Donkeys - if someone was treating my DS like this and he wanted a separation from him (let's say), he wouldn't be coming round my house for Christmas.

grrrr. He makes me so angry!

MrsTomHardy Fri 07-Dec-12 13:25:36

You make your own plans for Xmas....he will have to see dc's when convenient for you.

If he wasn't such an arse you wouldn't even be in this situation would you!!

FiercePanda Fri 07-Dec-12 14:41:24

Lala, if you're going to your parents' for Christmas, go without him. His wants are none of your concern. If he wants to see DCs, he'll have to wait - its not like he's EVER put their needs first, has he?

Tell him that you and the DCs are going to your mum's from Xmas Eve-whenever. Tell, firmly, not in a "do you think its okay if..." way. You are not responsible for what he does over Christmas. Go to your mum's, have a gorgeous time. If he wants to see the kids, let him organise it himself. You do not organise anything for him anymore.

zxcv123 Sat 08-Dec-12 15:15:10

Lala - Six months after my divorce was finalised, I did a big, fake, family Christmas with XH. We thought it was for the best for the DCs. I bought everything, wrapped everything, cooked everything and organised everything whilst XH lay about like a slob lording it over us all and criticising me and the DCs. You could have cut the atmosphere with a knife and I have some really grim family photos to prove it! In them, I look upset and the DCs look confused.

Looking back, I'm not sure it was the best decision. It certainly wasn't a happy Christmas the DCs will look back at fondly (unlike the very many, extremely happy Christmases we have had without him, since then.) I think it only served to confuse and lengthen the process of disengaging.

mathanxiety Sat 08-Dec-12 19:49:07

Lala, if I were you I would avoid verbal communication with him about the divorce and him moving out.

It has the potential to be pretty unpleasant, and certainly it is a cut and dried way of handling things, but I would advise e-mailing him instead of trying to tell him verbally how things are going to be, which leaves him the option of denying conversations took place or denying that you said certain things.

I will then tell H I have spoken to a solicitor who has recommended getting X drawn up when he moves out in January so he needs to start looking,

If you tell him or email him make sure he knows that you are going ahead no matter whether he is out of the house or not or he will delay leaving in hopes of making you retreat. What you have in mind is an open invitation to him to drag his heels and refuse to start looking. So no 'when he moves out in January' -- tell him in your email (which is considered received and read if you get the automatic notification that it was sent) that you are going ahead with divorce.

I suggest you email him and tell him you plan to be at your parents for Christmas eve, Christmas day and Boxing day and if you really feel he should be there for a short visit he needs to make an arrangement with your parents to visit for a short while on Christmas morning (be specific about the general time of day he should ask them about). Then he should contact them but you should make it clear to him that your understanding is that the invitation to stay isn't extended to him.

Your parents need to tell him he can be there from 10 am to noon (for instance; whatever time frame he is least likely to be drunk is what you are aiming at here) -- they will need to be primed to refuse anything more by way of their time and hospitality. If not then you will have to exclude him from Christmas altogether. They will need to keep the booze locked away for the duration. No convivial offer of a beer or glass of something. Would they do this for you? (Better yet, if it is your parents' habit to attend church on Christmas morning, then maybe he could attend with the family and bugger off afterwards without darkening your parents' door? They could make it plain that the invitation is for church only.)

No matter what is arranged, it needs to be made plain to him that the invitation to be there comes from your parents and that his presence is not expected or acceptable as a matter of course. He is only going to be there if invited and at their sufferance. He needs to feel the cold shoulder.

What he does outside of the hour(s) your parents are prepared to give him is up to him and you are not to worry about where he goes or who he ends up with.

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