ex SIL preventing nieces from attending special family events

[OneArmedBandit]

my sil and i were close for years.

she and db are going through a messy divorce.

she is refusing to allow their 3 children to attend family gatherings that don't fall on his 'access' days (every other weekend). this access has been dictated by her alone. he used to have them weds nights too but she suddenly decided he wasnt allowed to have them midweek any more.

our other brother is marrying in august and they are bridesmaids.... it got to the point of having to threaten legal action before she allowed them to attend.

now their only surviving grandfather is visiting form overseas at 2 days' notice as a surprise for my 40th (am annoyed with my dad for not giving us notice but he didnt think through the consequences for my db). she has refused to let them see him as she says they have plans, and it not dbs' 'weekend'. you might say fair enough, but how sad that sil sees no value in altering plans to accommodate a rare overseas relative.

she also will allow him to have them only for 10 days over the summer, split into 2x 5 days so he cant do a proper holiday with them.

i dont understand why she hates us all so much. we used to regularly go on holidays etc together and i've really tried to be impartial. why cant she see that keeping the dc away from our side of the family out of spite, is not in the dc's interest. she admitted in a recent email to Db that money was his 'power base' but the dc our her 'power base'. i just want to weep its so awful and hurtful.

when he sees them only 2 days out of 14 it makes it impossible to get to see our side of the family. they have a gran and a great gran who see them about 1% of the time that her own family get to see them. not to metion my poor db who misses them like mad.

i really know the dc and db are the main issue but the extended family get hurt too and i needed to vent . any advice?

[AMumInScotland]

What do you think she means about money being his "power base"? Is there any chance that he is being difficult about that and she's only retaliating? It doesn't make it right of course, but if things are messy people tend to lash out with whatever they have to hand, and the children may well be the only weapon she feels she has.

If you were close, are you able to talk to her properly about this to try to understand where she is coming from?

[KatherineKavanagh]

Court

Your db needs to do it for his dd's before their relationship is damaged further

Maybe just a sol letter or mediation invitation will be necessary

[daffydowndilly]

Really, should she change her plans for the weekend with 2 days notice? That seems highly unreasonable. I just don't see how you can be annoyed with her for that, your father on the other hand was totally unreasonable not telling people what was going on, as overseas flights are rarely booked with short notice unless it is for an emergency, so that the relative could be accommodated. I think it is sad that you can't see the value in her time and plans.

[RackandRuin]

It's really not up to you to do anything. You are only getting your db version of events and it's up to him to sort it out. I know two men who moan to their family about the amount of time they spend with their dc, but when offered more time with them, are full if excuses.

I can't see why your SIL is unreasonable not to change weekend plans at such short notice.

[OneArmedBandit]

daffy, i acknowledged this issues of short notice in my OP. i guess the point is that they will not see their grandfather unless she co-operates. the 6 year old has only met him 3 times, so maybe i am, as you say 'sad that i dont see her plans as having equal value' (to paraphrase). i happen to see the meeting with grandfather as more important. yes it sucks that my dad handled the planning of the trip badly. should they be deprived of seeing him as a point of principle? and what about her opposing the family wedding?

the financial settlement is being decided. she is angry as she wants several 1000 a month.

i am no longer on speaking terms with her. i tried and tried to be a support and over the years managed to remain a friend to her when they have almost separated 3 times in the past. she then said something particularly hurtful about my db and i kinda defended him. i got a very acerbic email form her and havent felt like contact would be welcome since then. i send birthday/ xmas cards and occasional text but dont think speaking is wise till things calm down

[OneArmedBandit]

rack and ruin, db is going for joint custody so isnt in the category of men you describe.

true i have heard his side of things, up to a point, but i am also sad to say that he has forwarded me many of her emails in a moments of despair so i have read both sides of the correspondence.

you know what, daffy/ rack, it is sad when she gets 22 out of every 24 days to see as many of her local relatives as she likes. db gets 2/24 days to see us and we live 2 hours away and 2 main relatives are not able to manage the journey.

yes, sadly legal help is being sought.

[OneArmedBandit]

sorry i meant he only gets 2 out of every 14 days to make plans.( mad maths moment- dont know what happened there.)

[akaemmafrost]

You can't know what goes on between them or even if your DB is telling the truth about his interactions with her.

A few of my exes family think I am an obstructive, selfish twat simply I will not accommodate their every whim or put my dc into positions where they will not be safe, oh and also because ex is not at all truthful about his own actions towards me.

I bend over backwards to facilitate contact between my dc and exes family but on the few occasions it doesn't suit my name is mud.

Any chance a bit of that is going on here?

[RackandRuin]

I can appreciate that this is hurting you and you are obviously worried that your family may be marginalised in the children's life. But I don't think this is a given.

You db is seeing his children every other weekend - plenty of time to see relatives. Do you know why the weekday visits have stopped - could it be because of the children's schedule? I know that between clubs and visiting friends, my dc don't have time to see the extended family, so i wouldnt assume that they are visiting you SIL family every week.

It's horrible when parents can't be felixible, but I can see that, especially in the early days, it can be a difficult thing to back down on.

[crazygracieuk]

Do you know why your brother and his ex have split?

My bil's ex behaved in a similar manner to your brother's ex but I suspect that their relationship was financially/emotionally abusive so in the early days at least, she used to children to exert control. Obviously that's not a good thing but I believe that the relationship failed because of problems with both of them.

It's a shame that the children only see their dad and his side of the family for two days every fortnight and hopefully he can use the legal process to get more access days.

Most divorces aren't amicable- I know of two couples who manage to co parent after a divorce but that is unusual. It must take time for wounds to heal and things to settle down. 2 days notice is really poor. I know it wasn't organised by you but people on here get angry when schools give a week notice of events and I can see why she won't bend over backwards to accommodate your brother.

[birdofthenorth]

I have similar issues re holidays and wedding events with DH's ex partner & my DSS. You can't expect her to alter her plans for this weekend (actually I think your dad is really in the wrong here, if he wants to see his grandchildren he should indeed come/ stay til on their access days) but it does sound like DB should consider instructing a solicitor to write a letter re increasing summer & midweek access. Legal norm if there is any such thing is every other weekend & one day midweek, & a decent chunk of holidays (half would be great).

[OneArmedBandit]

they are divorcing as they are incompatible.
mutual decision.
yet a tide of vitriol has been unleashed since he moved out.

rack and ruin ...re 'plenty of time for visits': she insists they are home by 5pm on the sunday so he is unable to visit relatives on sundays.


they would be spending 5 hours in the car and have to head home before 3pm. when they were together they would regularly visit us, have dinner here, put on pjs, drive home and be home for bed time. these visits no longer possible now due to her 'schedule'.


no-one else thinks that this rare chance to see a grandparent is worthy of changing plans? ok. interesting. the result of sticking to this principle is that the youngest wouldnt even recognise her grandfather in the street. i'm obviously the only one who thinks thats worth cancelling a couple of playdates for. i am clearly living on a different planet.

sure there are issues between them but she had admitted using the dc as pawns against him, thats what i think is so sad.

[akaemmafrost]

Personally I would do what I could to facilitate my dc seeing the grand parent but that's just me.

Don't expect your priorities to be hers.

[OneArmedBandit]

update... he has told her he is going to ask the school for a day's authorised absence in school time so they can see their grandad. she is NOT happy about this either...

what do you make of that?

[akaemmafrost]

As their father he has that right, but it smacks of one up man ship to me.

[OneArmedBandit]

he just wants them to see their grandfather fgs!

[akaemmafrost]

If they cannot reach an amicable arrangement between them then they need a court to decide contact arrangements.

Imo him pulling them out of school will lead to her digging her heels in even more.

Look, if this was me I would do whatever I could to make it happen. But without having the inside track on THEIR relationship its hard to judge.

[RackandRuin]

Onearmedbandit - if the children have only seen their gp three times in six years, visiting hasn't been a priority for anyone before, so why are you blaming SIL now?

Your brother is seeing his children every orher weekend, why can't you visit him?

[akaemmafrost]

Oh and this weekend they have plans, do you know what they are? Could be something massive.

Some people, and forgive me if I am wrong seem to think that what they want is all that matters and everyone should accommodate them, it's called being entitled and I am wondering if you and your family are like this, which would explain SIL attitude.

As previous poster said, this grand parent hasn't visited before now, why should she drop everything to accommodate you all?

I would, but I am lovely like that .

[OneArmedBandit]

as i said earlier, 2 key family members are not able to travel. its not just me to think of.

rack and ruin, there is a response to your last question but will have to post properly later to explain. there are reasons why the youngest child has missed 2 visits within that 6 year period

[kinkyfuckery]

My ex (married at the time) told everyone I wouldn't allow the children to go to his engagement party. I didn't even know about it. When I heard about it (via Facebook) and told him he was perfectly welcome to take them, he tried to make excuses not to, whilst still telling people I wouldn't allow it!

[ThePigOnTheWall]

How come we accept many OP's version of their relationship here as gospel, yet we are saying that we can't form an opinion here because we don't know both sides of the story

OP I think your SiL's behaviour is disgusting and mean and is doing her DDs no favours at all. I feel so sorry for any parent that gets treated like this - I don't care if it's the mom or the dad.

Not all moms are paragons of virtue. I have personal family experience of a mother using the kids as a weapon in a divorce and it shattered the whole family :(

If I were their dad I would take them out of school to see their GF

Good luck to you all and I hope the situation calms down a bit soon xx

[DontmindifIdo]

Has she been invited to bring the DCs along to the family gathering too? could Grandfather go to her house or a cafe nearby to see the DCs for a couple of hours or would that not be welcome? That way she's not being asked to cancel all her plans for the weekend, just a couple of hours.

Taking the DCs out of school should really be a final resort. Is there anyway Grandfather's flight back could be delayed for a week to be there for DCs visitation weekend? Could you offer to have him to stay so the DCs don't miss out?

The whole family may have to get used to only having the children available on visitation weekends and plan accordingly if they want them to be at events. Shitty, but unfortunately normal for non-resident parents' extended family.

[akaemmafrost]

Well I feel able to try to see both sides on this occasion because I AM the awkward ex SIL. According to ex anyway. It all sounds very familiar.

Also remember that Ex SIL and her family will be having to do the same thing ie plan family events to coordinate with contact arrangements.

[ninjanurse]

I expect my children(6&8) to be home from their dads by 5pm on a sunday, they need to be home to sort their school things out, have a bath and get an early night before school. They frequently come back from their dads overtired, overwrought and then when he has gone they descend into obnoxious behaviour, because he has spoilt them all weekend, not disciplined them and let them go to bed really late on the saturday. If they came back at 7 or 8, it would be hell getting them to bed and they would pay for it for the rest of the school week. Thats my opinion on that one.

My kids go to their dads every other weekend. Therefore any thing I want to do with them, I plan for the weekends I have them and he does the same. We both realised quite early on if we wanted flexiblility in changing things around, it worked both ways.If Im civil and polite to him he is the same to me, if I want to swap a weekend with him, I ask nicely a couple of months beforehand. And he does the same in reverse. A couple of weeks ago he asked me 3 days before his weekend if we could swap as he was going out for his brothers 30th. I said sorry but no its too short notice (we were going to the theatre). If he had asked me 3 months beforehand, then no problem.

Theres two sides to every story, especially in the early stages of messy divorces. I dont see it as my job to facilitate contact with his family. He gets his weekends in order to do that, just like I have my weekends to organise them seeing my family.