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Relationships

Dumped by EA partner again

147 replies

isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 00:28

I have previously been in two abusive relationships. Since the second, I've read Why Does He Do That? and the Freedom Programme materials.

I've been going out with someone else since last November. I've been friends with him for 5.5 years, so I knew he had sulky/PA tendencies. I've always liked him though and thought that he might actually be redeemable (unlike the previous two).

I made it clear that I wouldn't move in with him until I was happy with his behaviour (we're currently 200 miles away from each other but I'm moving closer soon for other reasons).

He admitted being EA months ago but has not put any real effort into fixing it till very recently, when he finally read the Lundy Bancroft book. He also read these materials: shouldistayorshouldigo.net/bonusmaterials.html and agreed to make an action plan.

We agreed to a sort of break where we wouldn't have sex/be a proper couple, but would stay exclusive and be affectionate while he worked on things.

Last time he visited he was clearly EA in front of my daughter (looking back there may have been other lesser incidents I didn't notice at the time) which was a big thing for me as previously I thought it was confined to online. Very worried about it affecting her as she grows up as she already has an abusive father, one is more than enough!

So I have been seeing it in a much more serious light and been more willing to criticise him and stand my ground when calling him on things since then (online, he hasn't been back here since).

He has dumped me four times before, changing his mind the next day. In anger, as a punishment for me not agreeing, not backing down, criticising him etc. Blaming it on us 'not being compatible' - code for it being my fault - I have Aspergers so am unusual in the way I interact sometimes (he expects a lot of verbal affection to reassure himself, this doesn't come naturally to me, although I am fine expressing physical affection), but he knew this from the start and has always seemingly accepted me as a friend.

He's started a new thing recently where he introduces a topic, then refuses to answer questions because he knows I won't like the answer. Although then he does tell me in the end so the refusing bit is an unnecessary additional frustration itself.

I'd just criticised the way he was talking about something as it could be interpreted as defensive and blaming me. This was something he'd agreed not to do in the plan. He always claims he isn't doing it when I point it out, although he agrees he does in general. So I don't know when these occasions are that he does actually do it, if each specific one is denied!

Anyway, to avoid this situation of denial I said that as I couldn't tell the difference between him doing it deliberately and a misinterpretation, maybe he should avoid using ambiguous language that could be interpreted that way. Which he agreed to. Therefore if he does it, he's in the wrong, whatever he claims was his motivation.

So I could tell he was already annoyed about me saying that he was doing it this time, and he kept doing it (and denying it) in response to my comments.

Then I asked for the final draft of his plan, he said he was reluctant to send it to me. I asked why, multiple times, he wouldn't answer (both by evasion and direct refusal). Then said "The plan has changed by a few words. You can have it, I was just reluctant, because you would rewrite it again. It's MY plan, that I can share with you."

As the plan materials say it's suitable for me to, I suggested additions to his plan when I saw the first draft. He was willing for me to do this at the time, and agreed the additions were necessary. Even his sister agreed about the alcohol-related one (she was staying with him so he mentioned it).

But now apparently he resents my input and didn't include the changes (except the alcohol stuff) discussed in the final draft anyway. And there isn't much point in having the plan if your partner is still telling you you're still behaving unacceptably in ways that aren't in it!

So I said that I felt he hadn't responded non-emotionally, and had broken other commitments in the plan, so we should enforce the penalty written into it which this time meant no contact for three days (he already had a two day ban Mon-Wed which he put in place and the way he did it felt quite controlling, like it was actually a punishment for me, especially as he blocked me on Facebook where we normally talk, which unfriends you automatically).

As soon as I said that, he said he was still here (one of the things I'd objected to was him ignoring me for 27 minutes although I'd typed to him in that time, which is a regular issue and he isn't supposed to just go away and stop talking in anger to punish me, only as a break, calmly discussed).

I said it still stood and I'd see him in three days, then logged off.

He then unfriended/blocked me on Facebook again, hid or deactivated his account (I can't see it in the search results any more), and sent me an email saying he doesn't want to talk to me again. I.e. it's over (again...).

Is there any way back from this if he changes his mind again? Have I done anything wrong in this? I mean I'm sure I haven't but you know how gaslighting makes you think you're crazy and unreasonable. I feel like I should post the entire conversation just to be fair to him so you aren't only getting one side, but it's too long.

I know everyone will just say it's a lost cause and I should give up on him. And if it was either of the last two people I'd be saying it myself. But I really thought this one could work.

I wanted him to agree to go to an abuse perpetrator's programme (as part of the external help bit of the plan), but he ignored that suggestion. Instead he wants to talk online to an ex of his (who is a counsellor). I don't have an issue with the ex bit per se, although I do wonder if she can be impartial if she sees issues coming up that they might have had too. But the counsellor bit makes me wary as I know this can enable them further. He said he'd make sure he was honest with her and she would call him on stuff (hmm).

If he does return, should I insist on some other form of outside help? And how long should I give him to improve before giving up? I don't want to set an arbitrary time limit but then I don't want to be in the same situation still being messed around in a year's time.

Sorry for extreme length!

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izzyizin · 17/06/2012 00:45

Putting him on the metaphorial equivalent of the naughty spot isn't going to change his behaviour.

He was EA in front of your dd? Wasn't that enough for you to boot his abusive arse into orbit? What lessons are you giving her?

Get down on your knees and pray he doesn't change his mind... and pray for the strength to stand firm and have nothing further to do with the twunt if he does.

Just because he happens to be the third tosser in a row of lost causes doesn't mean you'll get lucky with him or that he's lucky for you.

Forget about men until you give your twat radar a thorough overhaul.

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squeakytoy · 17/06/2012 00:49

It wont work. Honestly, it really really wont.

You deserve better than this, and your daughter deserves better than for her mum to be accepting the crumbs of second best from someone who messes her about and fucks with her emotions.

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izzyizin · 17/06/2012 00:49

It's not your business to save lost souls through redemption, honey. Leave it to the clergy to redeem sinners and find yourself a man who's not in need of behaviour modification.

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Wingedharpy · 17/06/2012 00:50

Sorry - can't help really as it all sounds like too much like hard work to be honest.

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bogeyface · 17/06/2012 00:51

Why do you want to get back from this?

Honestly, he is a complete nightmare!

You need to do 3 things.

Firstly, get rid of this man who is draining you.
Secondly, get some proper therapy for you to find out why you seem to get drawn into abusive relationship, and moreover FIGHT to stay in them even when you yourself acknowledge the abuse
Thirdly, stay single until your therapist believes you have dealt with your issues.

This isnt about him, this is about you. It seems that you have a thing about rescuing him, would this be the same with your previous relationships? "I know he is abusive but I can help him change...."

You need help with this OP or you (and more importantly your DD) will be dealing with men like this forever :(

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Aussiebean · 17/06/2012 00:51

Hello. I have no hard experience of EA except via a narc mother but I will put my 2 p in.

I think the relationship was doomed from the start. You went into determined to change him. There was no loved up bit. You went into knowing he was an EA and was questioning every comment he made.

I know you are trying to protect yourself but the post comes across as you are the controlling one. He needs to change his behavior. The way he speaks the way he interacts. Swap the roles around and you would be the EA.

It is exhausting being constantly critised.

I am not say you are controlling but I think you are so determined to stop it happening again that you want to control the relationship. And you should have to do that. You should be in a relationship where the other person speaks in a way that makes you feel comfortable.

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Aussiebean · 17/06/2012 00:53

Sorry shouldn't have to do that.

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SoSad007 · 17/06/2012 04:07

Isthis, I see that you have read the Lundy Bancroft book "Why does he do that?" Good for you on educating yourself on the perpetrators of abuse.

As you know, Bancroft has over 20 years in this field and has had thousands of men do his abuse program. He has said that not many men are successful in changing their abusive patterns, and continue to abuse.

So in knowing that, why do you feel the need to change this particular man? Do you think that you can succeed, when a professional in the field says that there is very little success?

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shinyblackgrape · 17/06/2012 06:51

It's very nice of you to want to try and help him. However, for new relationships, I would have thought the purpose of the Lundy Bancroft book woulda be to identify abusers do you can get rid.

This all sounds horrendous - as though your a health care professional dealing with some non-compliant patient. Not two people having an adult relationship.

You also need to think of your DD here. Her needs are more important than helping him.

You sound lovely and I'm sure you can do much better.

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shinyblackgrape · 17/06/2012 06:52

You're not your

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TheHappyHissy · 17/06/2012 09:03

In a nutshell? Make SURE you STAY DUMPED!

Grab this chance of freedom with both hands. Please?

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arthriticfingers · 17/06/2012 09:08

What Hissy says
You are wasting your valuable life bothering with all this shit because ... ???

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DoingItForMyself · 17/06/2012 09:15

If he does return, should I insist on some other form of outside help? And how long should I give him to improve before giving up? I don't want to set an arbitrary time limit but then I don't want to be in the same situation still being messed around in a year's time.

You've wasted more than enough time and energy on this twunt. "If he does return" WTF?! Don't let him - why is that his choice to make?! End of story.

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gymboywalton · 17/06/2012 09:19

imight strt a thread about this but i just want to tell you here because it is very pertinent.

relationships are supposed to make you feel good. they are suppoed to be nice. you are supposed to be happy for the majority of the time.

everybody has ups and downs so you won't be happy all the time but i would that at least 60 or 70 % of the time you should feel good.

what on earth are you getting out of this?

it is better to be alone than to be badly accompanied you know

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CharlieUniformNovemberTango · 17/06/2012 09:29

This all sounds like so much hard work.

It shouldn't be like that.


And this is before you're in regular close contact. Honestly, how do you think it'll be when you live closer or together?


It's been a matter of months and it's falling apart already. Not very promising for a happy future really.


You really do deserve so much more. I would
Block him on Facebook etc and then move on. Do not give him the opportunity to keep this up.

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isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 10:17

izzyizin I didn't like the idea of the penalties either, but that's how the Should I Stay materials suggest doing it (they're linked from the initial post in the EA support thread so I thought they must have approval from people here). She's 15 months, so although I wouldn't want a pattern to develop, I don't think a one-off will scar her for life (especially considering what her father does around her already, which is unavoidable till we move). It's my choice to continue exposing myself to his behaviour online, that's why he hasn't visited since. I know it has to be him that redeems himself, not me.

bogeyface I'm not getting therapy, I'm very aware of all the underlying mechanisms and talking (at least in person) is not something that works for me. I wouldn't have a problem finding a new healthy relationship, it's just because this person was someone I'd liked for years so I was reluctant to just let it go. No, I never felt my previous partners could change, just this one. The first one I didn't realise was abusive till years later. The second one I did name it a year or two in but was never under the illusion he could/would change.

Aussiebean I realise my initial post was misleading. I didn't read the Lundy Bancroft book till I was already involved with the third person, so although I knew he was sulky etc already I did blame myself for the first couple of months for his behaviour as he insisted he was normal and I was the one doing things oddly (which I believed because of my Aspergers having caused communication problems before). A while after I read the book I said he was EA which he agreed with after the initial denial. He said he'd fix it, but it's only in the last few weeks he's really started making any effort, and that I've really stood up to it and insisted it was unacceptable. I'm telling him that X behaviour is wrong because it's X that he promised he wouldn't do in his plan, I can see how that might seem controlling, but how else can one do it?

SoSad007 I don't feel the need to change him, I know he has to do it himself. But this one seems willing now, whereas the others did not (which I know in itself is no guarantee). And I genuinely think (apart from the wishful thinking part of it) that he does have the potential to do so, where the others didn't. Maybe that will not be while in a relationship with me, but I do think he can do it.

shinyblackgrape I was following the advice given in the linked materials, if there is a better way of doing it please tell me! I suppose I'm really looking for advice from people whose partners have changed, so I know whether or not to bother pursuing this. I know statistically it's very unlikely, but there must be some way of identifying the ones who are serious about change. If there is a chance it could work, I don't want to throw that away after 3 weeks, if this could be just a minor setback on the road to recovery. I suppose I expected it would get worse before it got better, as he'd resist the idea of losing his sense of entitlement before getting over it. My daughter is irrelevant if he doesn't see her while he's behaving like that, that's why he hasn't visited again yet. She can't read our online conversations.

DoingItForMyself Well I feel like I've only wasted 3 weeks so far, as that's how long he's been engaging with changing. It's my choice of course, I'm saying I'm willing for him to return if there might be hope. I doubt all abusers who do change do it immediately in one go and never do anything wrong again, so I want to know how much/how long to expect it to take if he's going to be successful.

gymboywalton Yes I do understand that. I actually wouldn't be satisfied with a relationship where I'm happy 60% of the time, I probably am happy that much in this one! I don't get upset about disagreements if they aren't enacted abusively, so I'd expect to be happy 90+% of the time with a non-abusive partner. I have no problem being single per se, I just want to give this one a fair (or even more than) chance because it's someone I've liked for a long time. I don't feel trapped in this one like I did in the others though.

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HecateTrivia · 17/06/2012 10:22

bloody hell. is it worth it? It just seems like such hard work. The whole point of being in a relationship is that you're happy and sharing your life with someone who loves and respects you and you love and respect and you have a great time together! Can you honestly say that is your life with him?

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isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 10:22

CharlieUniformNovemberTango I wouldn't say it was falling apart already, more than it wasn't right from the start. But I don't want to end it prematurely, as he's only been trying to do anything about it for the last three weeks. That's why advice from someone whose partner did change would be useful, so instead of looking at statistics and saying 'he's not going to change' I could look at real life experiences and see if he is anything like them.

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isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 10:24

HecateTrivia* It's worth it if I think there's a reasonable chance he will do it. I do see potential in him that wasn't in the others. No I'm not having a great time right now, obviously, but I'm prepared to be patient if necessary for a while if he's going to fix things.

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QuintessentialShadows · 17/06/2012 10:28

Why are you so keen to get back with him?

You say it is your third EA relationship. What is the matter? Do you get a kick out of these headfucks? Do you enjoy being part of games, ambiguity, gas lighting and manipulation?

I suggest you leave him be, take a long hard look at yourself, and vow to not date for a year or two until you have had serious amounts of counselling.

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QuintessentialShadows · 17/06/2012 10:29

I think you are just keen to change him to prove something to yourself, that you are not a failure relationship wise, and that you have not wasted time on this relationship.

You are not a failure if you see the writing on the wall and leave.

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PurplePidjin · 17/06/2012 10:33

That is a hell of a lot of effort to put in to a relationship you're getting so little out of.

Why bother being in a relationship at all?

Redirect your efforts into your daughter, career, hobbies and stop wasting your time. Life is stressful enough for a person with AS :)

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bogeyface · 17/06/2012 10:38

You have hit the nail on the head there....

It wasnt right from the start

And if something isnt right then it isnt right and all the work/talking/books in the world wont change that. He isnt right for you and you arent right for him.

Stop trying to make water flow uphill, and walk away while you can still be friends with him.

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isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 10:39

QuintessentialShadows I'm sure there's an element of that. There is also an element of sacrificing myself for the greater good, i.e. if I'm with them they can't be making someone else suffer. I would still have no problems leaving though if I thought it was a lost cause.

But there is also an unbiased part that sees there is a difference between him and the others. And I don't want to ignore that part just because of the previous bits, they don't invalidate that info.

No, I don't enjoy it, of course. The previous one wasn't just EA, he was every type of abusive.

Maybe I should buy the book! The Should I Stay or Should I Go? one (also by Lundy Bancroft). As that's the advice I'm after really, how to tell if it's worthwhile hanging around or not. Not just assuming it isn't.

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porridgelover · 17/06/2012 10:41

You have been seeing him for 7 months and went in to it knowing he had issues; but thinking he was redeemable- if I was to parse that sentence it would seem to me that you chose someone that you thought you could change.
I think quints post that you are trying to prove something to yourself is on the button.

Your DD is 15months so you cant be that long out of relationship no.2.
Take some relationship free time and put all of the energy you are wasting on these men into you. You deserve it and you are worth more than these men you seem to keep wasting yourself on.

And if you dont value yourself enough to do it for you, do it for DD.

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