Realising that actually none of my so-called friends gave a fig about me really...

[PinkAndPurplePirateGirl]

Hi everyone

I've posted in here before about struggling with friends and feeling like no one likes me. I've always had low self esteem caused by emotional abuse in childhood and as a result have always been left out of friendships and treated badly. I've been having counselling and CBT for ages now and my self esteem is recovering. I think I've always attracted the wrong type of people before and been willing to call anyone and everyone a "friend" when actually I think horrible people zoomed in on me as my self esteem was low and just treated me badly.

Like I've said before on here I decided a few months ago to stop bothering with people and basically sit back and see which friends proved to be true friends and would bother with me. I always feel that people like me but no one likes me "enough" to call me their best friend or to confide anything big in me or to think of me first when inviting people to something. So anyway, I've sat back and, erm, no one has made any contact really. So the friends that I was thinking were my friends obviously weren't and it was just the effort from me that was keeping the friendships together. They're all nice enough when they see me and lots of 'oh we must meet up' is mentioned by them but they don't arrange a thing or even really bother to try to contact me at all.

So where do I go from here? I am still in touch with my best schoolfriend, and she does bother to contact me, but even so she has done things in the past that hurt me, and I have a couple of online friends that contact me a lot but they live hundreds of miles away from me.

What I want is to a) attract friends that are like-minded and will treat me well and b) have friends that value me and make an effort to contact me. I am happy to make effort too in friendships but I don't want to make all the effort as I have done in the past. I think the key is to not bother with anyone that's treated me badly. One woman at the school kept chatting to me and we met for coffee a few times but I didn't make any further contact as I found her self-absorbed and it wasn't a conversation, she just wanted to talk "at" me, and I don't want friends that do that.

I am good at starting friendships but don't seem to be very good at continuing them. I don't think I am very tolerant these days of anyone that treats me badly and have clear ideas of what I want in a friendship and how I wish to be treated. I keep going back to the idea of actually giving up on friends altogether as clearly I am not someone that people warm to or want to spend time with, I'm just kind of "there" to make up the numbers.

[Bumdrop]

How about thinking about it in terms of friends and acquaintances ?
I think most adults don't have many really good true friends, just a few that should be cherished, but have more acquaintances, people who share something with us e.g. Kids the same age, same employer, same gym, and we spend time with these ones, that's great, but different to friends with that more totally bonded feeling.
For me, I have moved around the country a lot, so I have had to be quite mechanical at times with developing a social network.

I put myself out there e.g. Join groups etc.. Talk to people, make more of an effort with the ones you feel you can really relate to hope something more comes of it, sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't.

[Mumsyblouse]

I think I've written about this elsewhere, once you get in your thirties and forties or older, people are busy with busy lives and few people massively prioritise their friends. But that doesn't mean they can't be a great source of comfort, fun and so on when the opportunities arise, but if you sit there waiting for the phone to ring, it might not do so for six months. Personally, my friendships can seem stand this, I have one great friend who I only speak with about every six months but when we talk, it's for three hours at a time and when we get together (perhaps every year or two if one of us can get time away) it's just like old times.

Perhaps I'm wrong, or perhaps I have a different kind of friendships (I have a lot of old friends so the bonding thing was there once even if we don't see so much of each other now), but we don't all talk regularly once a week on the phone (I have one friend I do this with). Most of us have families, and dragging 6 children between us across the country isn't possible on a frequent basis. But, if one of us is in the area, or has a problem, we wouldn't hesitate to go or call.

I just wonder if you have a very fixed idea of friendship, as Bumdrop says, it's fine to have aquaintances or mums for having a quick chat or a coffee with. I also think that you have to be realistic, if you want to have lots of friends, or see them really frequently, you may have to make more effort than them. There's usually one driver in every friendship, if you stop calling if you were always the caller, they won't necessarily think about calling but may be delighted if you do so.

Having said that, one of my friends didn't call for over a year after I made a special effort for her significant birthday, that did annoy me a bit, but I still stay friends with her. Once friendships become all about who makes the effort, obligation and people getting peeved, they are not so fun anymore and start to sound like relationships

[Hyperballad]

Aagh! Don't you hate it when you lose your thoughtful long post!

Anyway, hi pink,

Understand where you are coming from, I was in the similar situation with friends until I was in my mid 20's. I'm now 33 and have some really close friends, true friends.

I agree with the poster that said think in terms of aquantinces and friends. I began sussing out who was good for what, I.e which one of my aquantinces is good for a coffee and chat, which one is good for lunch, which one would I invite round for dinner, which one is good for me to pop round to there's.

Depending on my mood and what I wanted to do I'd pick out who I though I'd most likely have the best time doing it with.

This resulted in slowly but surely growing and forging better friendships, and not worrying about the ones that don't work out. So your 'friend' that proved to be self absorbed, I do have a friend that means the world to me that is self absorbed, I fitted her into the catagory of 'acquaintance to see when knackared'! As she does all the talking and I can just relax, listen and not put any effort in. 8 years later she is actually one of my best friends!

Also I did join a beginners dance class, and had a whe new influx of aquanances from this, 3 of which have become very close friends with. That was over a space of 3 years these friendships developed. And I'm still Go to the dance group.

So i have no clue whether that helps at all and I could go on a lot more about my difficulties and solutions tomaking friends but I'm worried I'll lose my list again!

Feel free to ask me questions if you think I can help! Xx

[Hyperballad]

Sorry for grammar and spelling mistakes, hope you can make sense of it!

[PinkAndPurplePirateGirl]

Thank you everyone, lots of good advice there.

I think the thing that bugs me is even if I treat a friend really well and put everything into the friendship, it isn't reciprocated. So for example they will confide in someone else about something and I will be the last to know, or they will get married and invite all our friends to the wedding but me only to the reception. I know those examples sound silly but there are many other things too. Basically I feel that I get shat upon from a great height by everyone that's my friend.

[OrmIrian]

pink - you sound a little like me. But I have learned not to give a stuff TBH. I think DH worries more about it than I do. I would say that now at 47 I have a handful of good close friends but even so I find them hard work - one of them is going through a messy seperation and I am on call more or less 24 hours a day and I am struggling I like my space. Normally the people I enjoy being with also like their space but this is just one of those times when they don't!

[PinkAndPurplePirateGirl]

Orm, I am trying so hard not to give a stuff and to an extent I don't give a stuff now but it still hurts at times and I can't understand why I'm always left out of things.

[OrmIrian]

" So for example they will confide in someone else about something and I will be the last to know, or they will get married and invite all our friends to the wedding but me only to the reception"


Those aren't silly. But because you, like me, find friendships difficult, you think that everyone has just one best friend they share everything with. They don't. If you told them how they felt they'd be mortified that they had upset you.

I also have a sneaking feeling I was subconsciously holding myself aloof. I found it easier to step outside myself and observe myself playing the part of being a friend - that isn't to say I didn't mean it, because I did. But I held part of myself back. People sense that. DH always admires my ability to make small talk, be the life and soul of the party, even with people I don't know or care about. But he is the one who makes friends. I just make aquaintances.

I hold on to my few good friends now. But when it comes to times like this I do wonder if it's worthwhile. I guess that makes me fairly crap friend material But I really don't care any more.

[Mumsyblouse]

Don't put everything into the friendship. If it's very important to you that they ask you do to stuff a lot, then hang back and allow them to do that early in the friendship, if they don't, you know not to invest lots of time and energy in it.

But, I think having a handful of close friends is quite a lot, I don't meet that many like-minded people (or people I can bond with), probably one every five years or so. You can't have lots of close friends if you are busy with work/life/children/live a long way away from them; it's fine to have everyday companions and a few old friends along the way, I think.

I don't especially like groups either, for the reason you suggest, one person often gets left out or everyone can be a bit bitchy. I prefer just being friends with one person I get on really well with, although am happy to go for the odd drink with a group, I wouldnt' consider them friends in the true sense.

[mermaid101]

Im not sure if this makes any sense, but do you think this could be because you are a very good friend to them? For example, I had a very small wedding ceremony and didn't invite someone I would class as an extremely good friend. I would have loved her to be there, but just logistically couldn't have any more people. The reason I left this particular friend out, is that she is so lovely and reasonable and I knew she wouldn't go in the huff with me. And she didn't. She completely understood.
So what I'm trying to say is, sometimes the lovely, low maintance people get a bit sidelined.
Having said that, I went through the same thing when I was in my mid twenties. I still remember how painful it was: it was like a heartbreak when I realised the people I thought were really great friends didn't rate me that much. It's all a big long story, but if you want to ask anything about it, feel free.
And to reassure you, I don't see these people now and have lovely other friends who I am much happier with.
But it's hard. I feel your pain!

[OrmIrian]

Sorry pink! I am probably not helping you at all I have just started to work it all out in my head so I offloaded. Ignore if it doesn't help.

[Hyperballad]

I'm with you on that Pink! I too felt shat upon by friends, this happened at school and right through till my mid twenties. I think I just started to think 'what do I want from this' or 'how can this benefit me'

So for example the wedding reception, I too would fee the same as you, but I'd be thinking well, it should be good fun, a chance to get dressed up, might meet some new people there, got plenty to chat about because my friends that were at the day do could tell me' all about the day. So I'd turn up with the attitude of don't let the bastards get me' down!
What is likely to happen is you'll have a great time and perhaps forge slightly stronger relationships with people.

I wasn't invited to any part of my 'friends since we were 2 years old' wedding. (long story to why) but I turned up outside the church with a card and present. 11 years later she still comments on my thoughtfulness that day and says she would much rather have had me' there than most her family on the guest list! Such is life! We are best friends and her three children consider me' to be an 'aunty'.

Any help?!

[MooncupGoddess]

"I think the thing that bugs me is even if I treat a friend really well and put everything into the friendship, it isn't reciprocated. "

I think the lesson here to not to put everything into the friendship. Most people don't do this, and don't expect it. If you feel like doing something nice for a friend, do! But do it because you enjoy doing it and like seeing their pleasure. If they do something nice for you too that's a bonus.

[PinkAndPurplePirateGirl]

Thank you again everyone. :) All the replies are much appreciated.

Orm, don't apologise at all, I am finding your posts interesting and helpful

mermaid, possibly but I really don't want to be the friend that is so placid and lovely that I get walked over. I'd rather be respected and have friends that are careful not to upset or offend me as they value me so much. My counsellor says I have to pull people up when they do upset me, and I have started doing this sometimes. I had a full on row with one friend who kept overlooking my feelings and making nasty comments and since then she has been a lot better and trod a lot more carefully around me. I'd be really interested in hearing about your experience if you'd like to share it...

[Hyperballad]

I relate to Orm's posts too. I think I have forged better friendships now because I let my brick wall down, started to show who I really am. Easier said than done when your feeling let down. But along with this I started to let people in on how I really felt. The actual friends would make the time to explain their actions and I'd in turn have a better understanding to why they had acted a certain way. Also if they had actually 'shat on me' then I started getting the odd apology and I could graciously accept it, this then made a friendship stronger.

The ones that really don't care will show themselves quickly, those you drop. The ones that do care, you give them chance to show it by opening up to them.

Any of this making any sense??!!

Ha! Your probably all thinking 'no wonder she's had trouble making friends'!

[PinkAndPurplePirateGirl]

I know what you mean Hyperballad; I feel that I've let my wall down a bit more now and the few people I've tackled about their treatment of me do tread a bit more carefully with me now and treat me better as they've realised I wont' accept shoddy treatment

[Hyperballad]

Ah yes, that's good and that's what I mean. You said how you felt to a friend, she has stuck around and she is making an effort to change. That to me' is a big tick! If she goes back to those horrible ways then you can decide whether to forget the friendship or not. Hopefully she won't though.

IMO you've made a good step in the right direction there!

[Hyperballad]

'felt to a 'friend'' I hate I-phones!! I don't even know what that was supposed to say!!

[PinkAndPurplePirateGirl]

My counsellor's also been talking to me about how you don't necessarily need to tackle people to get the message across that you won't be treated shoddily. For example one friend rings me for a chat then her mobile will ring and she'll say 'wait a minute' and answer her phone and start chatting to the other person. I used to just meekly wait on the phone for 5 or 10 minutes but now as soon as she does it I put the phone down and she has actually not done it in the last few phone calls. She also always cuts conversations short with me if I call her and says 'I'm not being rude but I was doing X' , so I do that when she calls me now too.

[Hyperballad]

Oh yes, the phone thing, it's so annoying isn't it! Yep I do the same thing, hang up!

Hopefully you can feel a bit more positive now you can see a few things working. I know in a perfect life we wouldn't have stuff done to us like this in the first place, but it ain't perfect so we have to deal with it!

Or we become my dad, who has no friends and much prefers life this way!!

[PinkAndPurplePirateGirl]

Do you know what, I'm coming round to your dad's way of thinking! LOL

I have one friend that talks to me when there's no one better to talk to. So if I'm stood with others she would prefer to talk to she totally ignores me. So I've started making zero effort with her. If she comes over and ignores me I walk off and talk to others, without saying bye. She goes through phases of being very off with me, for seemingly no reason and whilst I used to ask her what I'd done (to get the reply 'nothing') I've started being off with her back and not contacting her, and she is getting a lot better with her moody times. Actually I don't know if I'd call her a friend really, probably an acquaintance, but the kids like each other and get on well and I generally enjoy her company.

[Brandnewbrighttomorrow]

I'm not sure whether brutal honesty is what you're looking for but here goes. I know several women who are in a similar situation to you and regularly post on fb and grumble in person about people not being good friends to them. I like them but regard these women as acquaintances only and would never consider becoming closer friends with them because I like low-maintenance relationships! I have enough stress and hassle day-to-day and just don't have the resources to prop anyone else up all the time.

It isn't anyone else's job to make sure you are happy! I think if you concentrate on filling your life with activities that you enjoy and learn to be more self sufficient then friendships will develop naturally along the way - equal relationships that evolve without being forced.

Good luck

[Hyperballad]

Well I think that's it, you've done what you need to do to cope with her immature behaviour and you know what you do and don't get out of knowing her. So she's the aquantance to mix with if you need some company for the kids! And you've accepted that is what she is, 'it is what it is'.

If there was no benefit in knowing her, then why waste your time, but she's good for something!

I'm not as selfish as I sound by the way, I'm just sharing my coping strategies! I give a he'll of a lit in my true friendships but the nice thing is I get a he'll of a lot back!

Pink that'll be when you know you have it sussed!

And I think your at that start of some good friendships, in a few years time you'll look back and be able to just feel so good about the friends you now have.

Either that or you'll be sat reading the paper, with a scotch on one side and a dog on the other like my dad! Ha!

[Hyperballad]

I hate predictive text!! Phone I did want to write hell not he'll!!

[PinkAndPurplePirateGirl]

What do you mean by low maintenance, Brandnew? Do you mean that you don't want friends that need support ever? Or do you mean that you prefer friends that you don't see or have contact with very often? Would you take notice if a friend said you had upset them or would you just ditch them for causing you stress? Genuine questions btw.

I wouldn't say I was high maintenance, in fact I would say that the friends that have treated me badly have been high maintenance as they've always expected me to fit in with them and that they can treat me as they please. I don't think it's high maintenance to have standards of how you wish to be treated? Or perhaps it is?