H and I went for counselling for the first time yesterday, and everything feels 100 times worse

[feelokaboutit]

Is this normal? We got the chance to air some issues but not to learn now to deal with them iyswim, so I feel like we have opened a can of worms without having the tools for dealing with any of our feelings. H has retreated into his usual total silence and ostracism of me whereas he had spent the week up to the counselling appointment (which was the very first appointment where they gather information about you) being civil. I feel manipulated. It is as if he thought I would walk into the appointment and go, oh no, everything's fine...
I asked him if he wanted a cup of tea today and he said "leave it". I walked into the kitchen and apparently, when ds asked him "leave what?", he said "being stupid". Have butterflies in my stomach. We are now on the waiting list for a regular counsellor now. Don't know how long that will take or if h will eventually go with me, have a feeling he won't (though having said (during the appointment) that he didn't think it would help, he then at the end seemed to agree he would go), but don't know how on earth I am going to cope with the intervening weeks, or if the counselling will help us at all .

[NotANaturalGeordie]

Don't know what to say but didn't want to leave your post unanswered.

{{hugs}}

[RandomMess]

Why are you going and what are you hoping to acheive?

What about your h, why did he go and what does he want it to achieve?

[feelokaboutit]

We have had problems for ages. His main issue is that I am too messy, whereas mine is that he shuts down completely and doesn't talk to me for weeks sometimes after an argument, that we never talk about anything that matters to me, that he has a short temper and can be very critical.
He agreed to go to the counselling because he could see how bad things had got and said to the counsellor that "otherwise we would break up", but that is the only reason he is going, he sees it as being me who wants to go. For my part I would either like a find a way that we can talk on an equal open level and improve things between us, or be able to separate in a civilised way. Both seem very difficult things to do and the second seems very very sad.
Just now he has accused me of not putting enough clothes on youngest dd while at the park(he didn't come as I think he now does not want to do anything with me) and saying that is why she is now cold. It's very hard. I think I can cope but then he says something like that and the butterflies in my stomach come back .

[rightchoice]

Sounds like he is punishing you for what was said at the session. Perhaps the truth hurt!! Even though no doubt, you have said or tried to say pretty much the same for quite some time. Basically he sounds like he is sulking and not meeting you half way to work through your problems.

Don't be too upset by this. Counselling is a time when you both decided to talk, open up and listen. It does not always lead to 'working things out' or saving the relationship.

In a way it is better that you see him like this as what ever action follows at least you will know YOU tried to be honest and mature.

It sounds to me like he wants to distance himself from you for what ever reason. Don't chase him or beg. If he wants to be distructive he will only have himself to blame.

[feelokaboutit]

Yes he is very punishing in that way (the ostracism). He said (at the session) that when he stops talking it is because he sees no point in going over the same things again and again. However that takes no account of how it makes me feel when he does it. I feel disliked while he is being really nice to the kids. Like a pariah. Like I am not here.

[Jux]

Years ago I told dh that we could go to Relate or get divorced, so we went to Relate. He said afterwards - not to me, but in my hearing - that he went, fully expecting me to be told how utterly unreasonable I was and what a saint he was for putting up with me, but that he was completely shocked to discover that the counsellor said the exact opposite. DH didn't say this until we'd been going for quite some time, though. At first he just carried on the same as always.

Perhaps your dh hasn't quite grasped that he's not a saint, and is processing shock?

[rightchoice]

When he acts as if you are invisible, talks to the DC as if you were not there you can really see this man for what he is. Instead of team work, he is edging you out, punishing you.

This is not good, and you need to steel yourself for what sounds like the obvious. He is not prepared to work with you to get through the problems and issues.

You might just have to accept that for him it is over - it sounds very much like he is going it alone at the moment, and when he realises you have 'got it' you understand his game plan, he will either be very happy, or realise he has pushed you too far. Give counselling YOUR best shot, but in reality this person seems to have already decided if you ask me. Hugs.....

[feelokaboutit]

Yes I think he is shocked. He also said that he thought his thing would never be listened to (untidy house). I didn't get to the part where we could actually talk with the untidiness issue and how feeling constantly anxious about our relationship and other things means that I cannot get on with tasks that seem insurmountable. I don't know what kind of house he wants. One which is very minimalistic and where he never has to really interact with me.
The whole counselling thing is totally not something h would do and I think he is still getting over the horror of having gone there at all. He certainly gave no indication for seeing things from my point of view on friday, and simply justified his behaviour (for example not talking for weeks) .
Are you and your dh still together Jux?

[feelokaboutit]

Yes I know what you mean rightchoice, but why would he tell the cousellor that he went to the counselling because we were otherwise close to breaking up?

[feelokaboutit]

He also, at the beginning of the session, said that we do get on but that I couldn't handle something or other, can't remember what. I then said, how does not talking to each other for weeks constitute getting on .

[RandomMess]

[AnyFucker]

if there is abuse in your relationship (emotional manpulation is classed as abuse) then joint counselling is contra-indicated

the abuser will use what is said in the sessions to further torment and demean the other person, often using an experienced counsellor to join forces with him/her

I recommend you ditch the joint sessions and get individual help on your own account

[feelokaboutit]

I am already going to counselling on my own AF, which h only found out about on friday. At the very least if we are going to split up, I think we are going to need somebody's help to do it. Maybe any future sessions should concentrate on that?
I think you are right about emotional abuse being misplaced in joint counselling. I am sure h has no idea he does this though. I can't marry the fact that he loves the kids so so much, with somebody who basically is totally unable to talk to me.

[rightchoice]

He is making it clear to everyone, you, the counsellor that you are close to breaking up. He has gone along with it but does not sound like his heart is in it TBH.

If he feels so pasionate about a tidy house, why does he not do something about making it tidy, why is it 'your fault' the house is not tidy? I wonder what his own space would be like when he is living alone, and looking after his children when the visit, because it sounds very much like that is where this is heading. The problem here is that counselling will get you nowhere if he has already thrown in the towel, and is just going to pretend he is trying everything.

Only this week I was talking to someone who said her husband is attending counselling with her but when he is there he just lies, and just paying lip service to it until he finds a way out. xx

[feelokaboutit]

At one point in the session the counsellor said that maybe I had an idealised picture of what a relationship should be like (based on fact that h is my very first boyfriend so no previous experience) and h really jumped on that and said YES. I did not have my wits about me enough to say that that may be true but a relationship that involves endless no talking like ours is hardly one that I am picking holes in. No affection and no talking hardly a relationship make!

[AnyFucker]

if it's not helpful, then why will joint counselling assist you splitting ?

if you want to split, just split and attend your own sessions to help you through the process

it sounds like he doesn't give a shit about the process....only about making you feel small

[feelokaboutit]

Yes lip service sounds familiar to me.

[feelokaboutit]

Well, in his defence I am sure he did not like hearing what I said either. It just seemed like we both laid difficult things on the table but nobody helped us to deal with them, and now that we are back at home, we have sunk into an even worse silence through (his) total inability to communicate.

[ratherordinary]

Have you considered the idea that he might have Asperger traits, OP? There is lots of info on here about it, just do an Advanced Search.

[mathanxiety]

I also hope you will not go to joint counselling. You need to be listened to and have your perceptions validated and you need to get used to that before you ever sit down and talk with this man. (If by that time you decide he is worth talking to that is).

The contraindictions for joint counselling here are the fact that he feels you don't listen to him but has a glib justification for what he does to you, he punishes you with silence, puts you down when speaking to your child, and seems to think yo owe him a clean and tidy house. There is a power imbalance in this relationship '...feeling constantly anxious about our relationship and other things means that I cannot get on with tasks that seem insurmountable..." He has you at the point where you are guessing what he wants in the house, punishes you for not reading his mind essentially, and when you take the initiative and do something he second guesses your judgement, for instance about what the DC wore to the park...

None of this is good. He is very controlling.

[spendthrift]

OP, well I felt much worse afterwards and am also with a non speaker who used to use silence passive aggressively. And didn't see why we should go. And I'm messy too.

But masses of time and counselling and nearly splitting up later, we are still together.

Just take it chunk by chunk. And be patient but ultimately follow your instinct.

[mathanxiety]

The man who uttered that put down about you to your child in the kitchen is not a man who loves the DCs.

[mathanxiety]

And I am puzzled about the 'idealistic' remark the counsellor made. How is expecting a tidy house and expecting a partner to provide that for him not idealistic or unrealistic? (Or a symptom of entitlement)

[AnyFucker]

...or completely unreasonable

if my partner thought I should keep the house tidy for his benefit, he would get a rocket up his arse

I certainly wouldn't expect a counsellor to effectively support him in that ridiculous expectation

you want a tidy house ?

fucking tidy it yourself

(which I do, but that's beside the point)

[malinkey]

And I don't get how refusing to speak to the person you are supposed to love because they don't measure up to some ideal standard of tidiness is ok in anyone's world?

Did the counsellor ask your H if he had an idealised picture of what a relationship should be like?