My poor friend

[WinkyWinkola]

I don't know how to help her.

She's pg with her 4th. Her dh doesn't want it. Says it will ruin the family and the other children will have to immediately leave private school, they'll have to sell their house - "ruin what they have now".

She doesn't want to be pg, wants the baby though iyswim, and is finding his pleading and begging really hard to deal with.

She has an appointment booked at a clinic for next Wed - she's had a bit of counselling for this. She's 13 weeks now. She just doesn't know where to turn or what to think. She doesn't think it's such a 'disaster' as her dh does but he appears to be totally panicking and says he'll do anything if only she'll get rid of her pregnancy.

She says she would like me to come with her to the appointment. I can't. I just cannot. I'm such a crap friend but I cannot go to one of those clinics again.

Is there any other help she can access, please? And will she be "ruining" the family? I don't say anything but try to listen because everyone is telling her to have a termination.

[RoxyRobin]

What a dreadful position for your friend to be in. You are not a crap friend - you sound very caring, and your distress on her behalf comes across very strongly. I'm sure you have a very good reason for not going to the clinic with her.

I have never been in this position, so can't offer any useful advice based on experience. However, and I can only speak for myself, I know that if my DH had exerted such pressure on me that I gave in to his demands I know that I would have resented him for the rest of my life, and our relationship would have been wrecked.

I dare say you could find women who regretted having another child, but I'm guessing that the majority end up glad to have had their unplanned baby. There are many things that can cause economic upheaval in a family, such as illness or redundancy, yet people come through. I don't know their circumstances, but the DH's predictions of imminent poverty strike me as a bit melodramatic.

The awful thing about these situations is that one has very little time to decide, which induces panic.

I think this is the worst decision a woman has to make. But it is her body, not her husband's, and she must feel the decision is her own and not one which has been imposed on her.

Wishing strength to you both - x

[Doha]

There is no easy answer to this one.
Dammed if she does and dammed if she doesn't.
If she terminates the pregnancy she may resent her DH until the end of time as clearly she wants this baby and is being blackmailed into a termination.
If she keeps the baby her not so DH may not forgive her for not terminating.
Their relatioship -whatever her decision has now changed.
All you can do OP is be a good friend and support her in whatever way you can.
When you say you can't go to one of these clinics again, have you had a previous bad experience of this clinic

[SoupDragon]

her H sounds like a wanker TBH. having tried emotive reasoning about the practicalities, he appears to be trying to blackmail her into having a terminating she does not really want. It isn't her pregnancy, they were both involved.

Which isn't much help.

My GP gave me some good advice. He asked whether I saw the pregnancy as a baby or a problem. if I saw it as a baby, the chances of me coping mentally with a termination were far far lower than if I saw it as a problem.

[coccyx]

What will the husband do if she carries on with the pregnancy? They need to sit down and be honest how they feel

[WinkyWinkola]

He just says the family will have to give up everything immediately that costs money, including moving to a smaller house. They're going to Relate.

Thing is she is angry that he wouldn't go for the snip because he was scared of the pain.

She's having checks this week as she has a history of trisomy 13 babies. It's not great to know that when the sh*t hits the fan, your other half isn't standing with you shoulder to shoulder but instead is trying to persuade you to do something you might not want to do.

I've been to a clinic myself for a termination. It wasn't awful in the sense that the clinic wasn't professional etc, it's just stayed with me that I terminated and if I go with her, I don't think I could support her because of my own issues.

Minor issue that though.

I think their relationship may not recover from this whatever decision she makes. She's so disappointed but not surprised in him, she says. She wants to talk and talk and talk about it so I guess that's how I'm helping her.

[SoupDragon]

It is nonsnesical for him to suggest they will have to cut back everything immediately. Babies arent that expensive.

If i were your friend, I would be sending him immediately to have a vasectomy regardless of the outcome of the pregnancy. That would be non-negotiable.

[RoxyRobin]

Scared of the pain? He needs a kick in the nads (if applied hard enough it might do the job of a vasectomy).

It's not really your friend that needs the advice, it's her wretched husband. Would that someone older and wiser would take him aside and warn him what precious things he risks losing here - and money's not one of them.

[PhilipJFry]

I hate to bring this up in case it's utterly wrong, but there was a thread recently with a woman whose husband was trying to persuade her to have an abortion (I can't remember how many children they had already) and it turned out that he was having an affair and him wanting to get rid of it was related to that. I know it may be nothing like this, but I don't understand why after several children this last one is suddenly the potential life-ruiner and destroyer of their family's stability. It's strange that he suddenly feels this way.

[GypsyMoth]

Poor woman. Feel for her.

But going from 3 to 4 is a big move. Usually means a larger car and an extra room etc. The baby stage is cheap, but short lived. So I can kind of see what he means. Small things. Family tickets, holidays etc. Lots of discrimination out there for larger families.

[foolonthehill]

Really, one little baby is going to mean that the children have to leave public school and they will have to lose their house...?? Really???

I am so sorry for your friend and so glad that you care about her..but it really seems that there is something strange going on here..unless he feels the need to goldplate everything for the child. When you have 3 already for the first 4 years the 4th doesn't really add much to costs anyway, unless your friend will have to give up work and that is what is keeping their heads above water..i think something else is going on behind this and your friend needs to see if she can find out what. Maybe they in financial trouble already and the husband has hidden it, or a relationship issue....as PJF says.

Hope they can find their way thru' the mess...good for you for being the sounding board that your friend needs.

[WinkyWinkola]

Well, apparently so, fool. I guess that is how he will 'punish' her. She's still undecided. ACtually, she knows she wants this baby but also knows that she will get it thrown in her face all the time, that she is responsible for all the 'downsizing'.

I don't know. Who knows what really goes on between two people or even with one person.. .. It gets hard sometimes for me to keep my opinion to myself.

I just hope that she and he can reach some sort of resolution.

[AnyPhantomFucker]

I also think there is more to this

I am very sorry for your friend, winky

All you can do is support her in whatever decision she makes

Why wouldn't her husband offer to go to the clinic with her...if he is so insistent she terminate ?

Find it a bit "upsetting" would he ? [hhmm]

[WinkyWinkola]

Well, he hasn't said he wouldn't go with her. I think she just would rather he didn't.

[AnyPhantomFucker]

I don't blame her, tbh

I wouldn't want a man like that within a km of me, tbh

Was just musing on his so-called "thought" processes

[WinkyWinkola]

I think he is just panicking. They rely on his bonus for school fees. Interest only mortgage on a big, beautiful home. Porsche on some sort of rental deal thingy. Lots of smoke and mirrors to appear wealthy when actually, they aren't. I mean, they certainly don't struggle to pay the gas bill but it's the flashy stuff they can't afford but really want. She does too.

[JanePumpkin]

I was in the position you describe, well not in your friend's exact situation but I had everyone telling me to have a termination...I even was convinced I ought to, myself. I didn't want to. I could never...see it as anything other than a baby iyswim, whatever the shitty situation

I had one friend whom I'd never met and she was the only person who told me to keep it. The only one. My entire family, partner, friends, neighbours...I LONGED for someone to say, hey, this is alright, it's right to keep it. You're not committing a crime, or doing something dreadful.

This friend said what no one else could. I made and cancelled several appointments, but I kept my baby, who is now four, and I love him so very much.

You might be the only person she has who doesn't think it's wrong to keep it, and that is more valuable than anyone can imagine

She sounds very lonely
and doing what he wants when the relationship sounds so shit, well, why do what he wants. i keep thinking, maybe he is having an affair and feels too guilty about leaving if she has another baby...it's probably not that, but it could be anything. Hes being a tosser.

Say what you feel and yes listen to her
good luck
love xx

[Bledkr]

Was the husband involved with the conception of this child? Sorry i cant help but be sarcastic but its truly horrible that he is acting like he is.
Everyone makes sacrifices when a new baby comes along,they just arent normally as superficial.

[WinkyWinkola]

Jane, the only biased thing I have said to her is, "It's not a disaster like he says. It's really not. Don't let anyone tell you it's a disaster." I daren't say anything else to her because I really feel it's her decision and nobody else should sway it for her. She knows, I think, what I think. But we don't need to discuss that as I'm not the one who had to deal with it.

It's definitely his baby. My friend is far too loyal - and busy! - to be conducting an affair. He too is busy. He leaves for work at 6.45am every morning and is back by 7.30pm, exhausted, uncommunicative etc. He is just adamant he doesn't want another child.

Heigh ho. The sh*t people go through.

Is it deeply immoral to try to 'persuade' someone to have a termination?

[AnyPhantomFucker]

that definitely depends on what your definition of "persuasion" is...and what form it takes, IMO

[JamieComeHome]

I just can't see how she can go ahead with a termination feeling as she does and not destroy her relationship anyway. I think I'd say what you said to her.

Unless he's a complete bastard I wonder if there's something going on in his mind that he needs to be honest about. Is he panicking? If so, he needs to get over it.

[JamieComeHome]

Sorry - I see in your OP you mention panicking. I'd hope the Relate counselling would help him to not continue to panic

[Vampirecella]

They'll have to 'immediately leave private school'? 'Sell the house?

No they won't....ffs. So pleased to hear she has you as a friend OP. You sound like a wonderful support to her.

So sad to think that you think that she'll have it 'thrown in her face'

[ChippingInToThePumpkinLantern]

Yes - it's deeply immoral to push someone into a termination.

She has said that although she wishes she wasn't pregnant (this wasn't happening) she does want the baby. Surely that is all that matters really? How is she going to live with herself, let alone him, if she has this termination she doesn't want, to keep him happy - it will destroy their relationship.

Her relationship will survive or fail no matter whether she keeps the baby or not.

Does she want to be without him - with or without the baby??

He didn't want the snip - this is just as much his doing. He cannot make her suffer a termination because he didn't want the 'pain' of a vasectomy. Selfish twunting bastard. That fucker would be out the door already.

Sorry - you were asking what you should do really weren't you??

I think you should talk to her as well as listen - I really do. If she thinks everyone thinks it will be a disaster and she should go ahead with the termination she might, despite it not being what she wants :(

He is an utter utter twatting wanking bastard.