Powerful sexual fantasy issue

[cleaningtheoven]

Have name changed for obvious reasons. Me and husband have been together 22 years, two teenage sons, and are mostly very happy. We have one thing that has been an issue for a few years now, about 15 years into our marriage DH told me that he has always had a very powerful fantasy about seeing me with another man, being f by another man. Once he had confessed this fantasy it really took root big time, it really powers his sex drive and always has apparently. Long story short some time after this confession we experimented with the swinging world, and we indulged this fantasy quite a few times, had some really erotic threesomes, and met some couples, he enjoyed this hugely, I enjoyed some of the experiences very much as well,not all of them, but some, but, it wasn't something that came naturally to me as such, and I used to get very nervous before "a meet" but enjoyed it once things started flowing etc. Lately our circumstances have changed quite a lot, back then we had more free time, now with the recession we are having to work bloody hard just to stand still. DH would still like to pursue the fantasy but my feelings have changed of late and my heart just isn't in it anymore. The problem is when it comes to our sex life this fantasy is an obsession, what also doesn't help is that he is diabetic and sometimes struggles to maintain an erection so using this fantasy in the bedroom helps (as well as ocaisional use of viagra prescribed by doctor), the problem is he doesn't seem to be able to have sex with me without having to use this fantasy all the time, sometimes I find myself avoiding sex because I just don't want to go there, I want to have sex WITHOUT having to use the fantasy of me f another man or behaving like a slut with another man in front of him. It's been an issue for some time now and sometimes I wish he had never ever confessed the fantasy to start with. I have suggested relationship counselling or sex therapy but he won't go there. He knows it's an issue and says he can't help how he is. Is this some kind of sex addiction?
In all other areas of our life he is great, a lovley husband, great Dad and we both work extremely hard to keep our business going. Any advise?

[makemineaquadruple]

Hi cleaningtheoven.

Firstly, please don't think that this fantasy is unusual or strange. I'm not sure you do, but you're obviously tired of having to use it and maybe even regret indulging in it. Do you? That would be a huge issue if you did, but not an issue that as a couple you couldn't overcome, if you both wanted to.

I'd also like to say that I personally think that swinging and porn etc can most definitely become addictive. Me and my dp went through a spicing it up phase and we watched a lot "naughty" films etc and I have to say I really enjoyed it. At the time I thought this is brilliant! I felt so sexy and free. I felt like I was releasing the sex kitten from within. After a while though I started to worry that we both needed it. I didn't get that same rush from "normal" sex. I put a stop to it and although we're going through a dry spell at the minute, it did help eventually to find rediscover that we only needed each other and nothing else. If you could find a way to reconnect without that fantasy then that would help so much as you obviously know. Maybe the idea for your husband of going back to basics is just not stimulating enough for him and that's no reflection on you. If he's having medical issues then i'm sure you can understand that he probably needs something more. But as long as you know that it's not more than you. What about your fantasies? Have you discussed those? Maybe it's time to replace the fantasy. You're obviously adventurous and confident in that department. How about role play? Explain to him that the sex is becoming tired, but you still very much want a sex life with him. My personal thoughts though are that from now on you just keep it the 2 of you. I know that's very much down to the individuals, but I hear time and time again of it going wrong when other people are welcomed into the bedroom.

Hope some of this helps.

[cleaningtheoven]

I think at the moment he thinks he has a reluctant wife.
I have in the past seriously threatened to end the marriage over it and I know he absolutely does not want that to happen, neither do I, it would destroy both of us as we do love and care for each other and our boys very deeply.

[cleaningtheoven]

Thanks for your comments makemineaquadruple, I think you are right we need to reconnect just the two of us, and yes I did also get a thrill from it and recognise the unleashing the sex kitten within! Role play yes I could do, have lots of costumes, but he still finds it hard (no pun intended LOL) to do without the fantasy, it can be done, but it somehow always creeps back in....he just gets off on the idea of me being a slut. The upside is that his fantasies are always about me, he doesn't watch porn and if he looks at pics it is always pics of me.
Like a lot of couples we do have a problem as well with lack of opportunity with two teenagers always in the house and working full time etc
I have to go out now but look forward to reading any other replies later.

[makemineaquadruple]

Also, just wanted to say, I hope my last comments didn't come across as too judgmental. You're adults and you can do whatever you want. I was just saying that from my experience, it usually goes wrong in the end.

I know what you mean when you say it always goes back to having to act sluttish in order to satisfy him. I'm sure it starts off very tender and loving, but sometimes men and women sometimes just need to think filthy in order to get their final kicks if you know what I mean.

Now, I know this is a very personal question and you don't have to go into details, but when you say "act like a slut", what exactly do you mean? I'm only asking because what may be considered slutty behaviour to one, may just seem normal sexual behaviour to another. I know i'm being very open here, but I don't think there's been a time when i've had sex when I haven't felt naughty or dirty and it's a normal feeling............I hope! I remember going through a phase when I was about 20(god, 7 years ago!!) when I was like " right, we have to make love! No more quickies, it has to have meaning!", but then I realised that it does anyway, to a greater or lesser degree. We don't have to be surrounded by candles and have rose petals thrown on the bedsheets. The fact that your husband doesn't watch porn is actually quite unusal for this day and age and with your experience with sex as a couple. It's great that it's all about you. How great it that! I'm pretty sure my partner watches porn, but then I can't really blame him. I've been rejecting his advances for over 2 months now..................oh but that's another story lol! So what i'm saying is you're actually in a very good position(no pun intended!) A husband who adores you, worships you sexually and is a great father to your children. This hicup and that's all it is, may be taking over at the minute, but with help and I do think that' s probably necessary you'll get your connection back. I say I think help is necessary because there's obviously a reason he feels the need to keep bringing this fantasy back and I think it's important to get to the bottom of that. I'm not telling you anything really that you don't already know, but I hope i've helped a little.

[makemineaquadruple]

I think actually my last comments came across as rather patronising actually. When I was talking about rose petals etc, I think I was in a way talking to myself if that makes sense. Hope it didn't come across patronising anyway.

[cleaningtheoven]

No not patronising at all, I'm just glad someone has taken the time to respond and give me some perspective!
I get what you're saying about one person's outrageously slutty being another person's normal. I don't mind being slutty and letting go in the bedroom but he always has to drag the fantasy about seeing me being slutty with another man into it and it gets so old.
I have often wondered what the fantasy is all about, I've read books on male sexual fantasies and it seems it's not an unusual male sexual fantasy, but, I would love to know what has driven it, what is at the root? he doesn't seem to know himself.

[makemineaquadruple]

God yeah! I think it's one of the most common actually. I suppose the only difference in your case, is that his fantasy has been made into a reality. Most guys don't get to go that far. Most people just fantasise and that's where it stays. I suppose the fact that it has actually happened means that it's hard not to imagine it every time you have sex. My guess is that that particular fantasy is purely about watching you being pleasured. Not the fact that it's someone else pleasuring you, but the fact that when he's having sex with you although he can obviously see and appreciate what's happening, he can't actual be a spectator. So when you're with another man he can witness everything in it's entirity. Does that make sense? I'm obviously no expert, but that's my opinion. Sometimes people simply get turned on by doing something they know they shouldn't and watching your partner romping with someone else to most people is wrong, hence the turn on for some. It could be a mixture of the two, it could be neither and I could be way off base. I suppose you've only got to think about role play like I mentioned before. Couples often pretend that they're meeting in a bar and having an affair. Everyone knows people do this and nobody(very few anyway) judge. It's just what a lot of people do. Yes, you have crossed a line which many wouldn't and that has purely highlighted something that would have merely remained one of the biggest male fantasies around. I don't think you need to worry about why, I think you should worry more about him not realising that it's getting old. Even if it was a huge turn on for you before, nobody is ever going to be satisfied doing the same thing again and again. Maybe next time you have sex, just ask him not to talk. He can be thinking what he likes, but he doesn't need to mention it. He must know it does nothing for you now. Give that a go maybe.

I hope you don't think i've been too graphic and gone into too much detail, but I don't think I could have got my point across without being direct and to the point.

Hope this helps.

[izzywhizzyletsgetbusy]

IMO mmaq has provided some excellent advice and I think they've been spot on in suggesting that you should seek to replace the tired old fantasy that's doing nothing for you.

If your 'bedroom antics' usually occur in the same place - i.e. your bedroom - try initiating sex in other places.

Maybe a drive in the country and a sojourn in the back of the car while it's parked on a quiet lane - with a modicum of risk of a passing tractor. Or a quickie on the kitchen table, on the stairs, or the sofa when the dc are out of the way.

The point is to shake it up (no pun intended) and mix it up away from the place where the old fantasy is usually enacted in the hope that some new thought patterns will take hold.

There's nothing wrong with the old fantasy as such - let your dh know that you're happy to pull it out of box from time to time but that you need to add a few others to your repertoire to keep your juices flowing.

[cleaningtheoven]

Thanks I think you are right, I don't mind as you say pulling it out the box on occaision, but every.single. time. is driving me insane and totally turning me off.

[makemineaquadruple]

izzy I think you've given some great ideas.

I'm still curious though clo why you've put it with it for so long. I don't mean that to sound judgemental atall, I i'm just wondering. To go as far as to say it's driving you "insane" and a total turn off is really telling me that enough's enough! Do you think he's picked up on this? He must of picked up at your lack of enthusiasm. I know us girls are masters when it comes to faking enthusiasm in the bedroom(or quiet lane izzy) but we can only fake it for so long before I would have thought it would become obvious. I know I mentioned it before, but I really think you need to really think about what you want. If he likes to please you as much as he says, then the idea that you're genuinely turned on by you fantasy should be enough for him to get his kicks. Have you ever just refused to go along with this? Have you ever just said "not tonight honey, let's try something else?" I don't think you mentioned that you have, so it could be something as simple as a communication problem. I hate suggesting this to someone I don't know. You could have spoken to him about it til you're blue in the face and just given up. I guess the problem with giving advice to someone when you can't possibly know the full story. I really hope you both manage to sort this out.

[makemineaquadruple]

I meant to put cto not "clo" Ooops!

[cleaningtheoven]

Why I've put up with it for so long? because he has so many redeeming features, but this is what I'm saying, we go round and round in circles, it seems to be what he always comes back to. We have tried and do have sex where I ask that this isn't brought into the bedroom at all, a few years ago I did come down really hard about it because it was bordering on abusive, and I got really upset, he was absolutely mortified that I was so upset and he never let it get as bad as that again, ie he was using quite verbally abusive language towards me, for example he bought me a dress and said something like "that's the reward you get for being a little slut", I was absolutely horrified and upset, after that he never went that far again. But never the less the fantasy is still hardwired into his brain and whatever we do it always creeps out. I might have to take a hard line on this and ban it all together, but is that right to totally repress his fantasy? oh and yes he will go along with my fantasies and do things that turn me on and please me as well, but, ineveitably as I said it always comes back to this...

[ScareyFairenuff]

You ask why he has this particular fantasy. What is the driving force behind it. I think it's obvious. Nice girls don't enjoy sex. Sex is bad and dirty. A decent woman who you would marry, the mother of your child, could not possibly enjoy sex.

The only way he can do it with you is to make you into a slut.

I'm sorry OP but I think this is a serious sexual hang up that he has. It would be OK if it was occasional. But it's not.

I have in the past seriously threatened to end the marriage over it

Then why the hell are you still doing it?

he was using quite verbally abusive language towards me, for example he bought me a dress and said something like "that's the reward you get for being a little slut", I was absolutely horrified and upset

This is taking the fantasy too far. He thought he could get away with it. He still thinks he can because he refuses therapy.

Are you going to continue like this?

[ScareyFairenuff]

Seriously, I feel like I've stumbled into the 1970s.

[Pan]

Getting beyond the fantasy, which no-one should judge, for itself, but aren't you accepting a whole load of self-indulged stuff from him,and allowing him to get away with a massive dollop of selfishness??

After so many years it may have become addictive. But that isn't an excuse to not change the addiction. Or even make effort to change it. He knows how you are feeling about it. But your feelings appear to be entirely secondary to an easy orgasm for him.

Yes, you are entirely reasonable to 'ban' it, as delicate as they may be. You have as much right to sexual pleasure as he has. He is simply choosing to override yours.

[solidgoldbrass]

It's difficult when one partner's fantasy becomes so all-consuming, no matter what the fantasy is. How does your H react when you say to him that you no longer find this particular scenario exciting but in fact it puts you off? Could you both cope with, for instance, agreeing that while he can have the fantasy in his head during sex he shouldn't talk to you about it, or would it distress you to worry that he's thinking about it during sex?

[ScareyFairenuff]

It's not so much a 'fantasy' for him though is it. It's reality. She is a slut, so he can shag her.

She's told him she doesn't want to always be a slut but sometimes wants to make love with her husband without pretending to be anything other than the decent, loving wife she is.

But no, that doesn't work for him.

he will go along with my fantasies and do things that turn me on and please me as well, but, ineveitably as I said it always comes back to this...

[cleaningtheoven]

Scareyfaiereynuff your posts have really made me think about something and you may have hit on something, years and years ago when we were first married, I was sexually very repressed, it took me many years to learn how to really relax, ALLOW myself to enjoy sex, and it took me a long time to learn how to orgasm, during those early years he was very patient with me and tried to encourage me to masturbate to learn what worked (I was very reluctant) and bought me a vibrator, during those years he never mentioned his fantasy at all, in fact he only confessed it about 8 years ago or so. Maybe it has something to do with those early years.
Talking about all this is now feeling very painful and uncomfortable.

[cleaningtheoven]

SGB I think it would be ok if he would keep the fantasy in his head, after all we all use things/fantasies to a certain extent to help us along, but I think he is taking the piss.

[ScareyFairenuff]

I think if he won't consider therapy perhaps you should go on your own. Tell him no more fantasies for now as you are not enjoying it. I think there is a condition called something like madonna/whore complex. It's not that unusual and there is treatment to help him overcome it if he's willing.

But in the meantime, it might help you make some sense of his behaviour and your own feelings towards it, if you go on your own and talk freely to someone who knows more about these things.

[solidgoldbrass]

I agree that going on your own might be helpful. But in the meantime I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to say to your H 'I am sick of this fantasy and do not want to act it out or hear about it any more.'

[makemineaquadruple]

cto, i'm sorry that discussing this has brought back some painful memories. On the up side though, you may be closer to understanding where this has stemmed from. I think scarey made a very good point about "nice" girls not enjoying sex and only a "slut" would ever like such a "sinfull act". Of course this is rubbish, but I think maybe some men like to imagine this. I suppose it goes back to the old saying "a wife in the kitchen and a whore in the bedroom". Why a whore?! I don't think it really matters how far we come in society, if you ask a man if they could have a woman like that, they would say yes please!! Have you heard of a mindful wife? It's basically a woman who goes by the above saying. That and basically obeying everything their husband says. Going back to the original nuptuals I guess.

You've confessed that you had intamacy issues in the past, but does he not see how they might return if this continues. If he loves you has much as you say, surely who wouldn't want to see you like that again.

I have to say though if I was asking my dp to stop doing something that was really offending and upsetting me and he kept doing it anyway regardless, I would seriously threaten to leave. Regardless of what it is, it's so disrespectful, but unfortunately I think maybe that's the turn on at the time. Maybe he has absolutely no intention of doing it again when you start having sex, but then that all goes out the window because the desire is just too strong. I don't believe that he can't control it though. I think it would be difficult sure, but whereas it's difficult to control your thoughts, you can control your actions. Also, I think you should try and talk to him about why again. I know you say he says he doesn't know himself, but I don't believe that. Maybe he's just worried that you wont like the answer. You very well might not, but if you want to get it out of him then you'll have to be firm. You have a right to know if you've "had to" go along with it for so long.

Just had a rather devious idea. Ask him how he would feel if it really did it for you everytime if to get your kicks you called him a useless, pathetic bastard!! Now, maybe that would do it for him(hope not!!), but I can guarentee that it wouldn't everytime you had sex. Maybe he might start feeling.......I don't know................humiliated?!

Can I ask, how much do you have to endure this? Is this a daily thing? Weekly? Monthly?

I do feel for you. I'm sure it's not sympathy that you're looking for, but you really shouldn't have to put up with this and that's the bottom line.

[makemineaquadruple]

I meant if he loves you as much and surely he wouldn't want to see you like that again.

Very tired, sorry.

[SimpleDad]

A male persepctive here, if that helps.

Regarding the actual fantasy, I think it is indeed a very common one and you both have been very brave to live that particular fantasy out. Kudos to you both!

The problem now is that you have moved on but he hasn't. I go through specific fantatsies myself but that will eventually change onto something else. I like the expression 'hardwired' here because it seems that is the only way he can have sex now. I agree with the stripping (no pun intended) back to basics approach but this has to be agreed on by both parties.

You sound like you have a very strong marriage, so he needs to fully understand that this does nothing for you now - in fact it is a big turn off!!

The side effect from the diabetes may be putting him in a certain "ego" state and maybe feels that this is the only way he can cum.

As in with all these kind of problems, communication is so important. Let him know that sex is a no go area until this is rectified. It's not fair on you to put up with this. I had some issues a while ago and was putting them on my wife. I took a long hard look at myself and realised it is my problem and I have to deal with it.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.