Would this bother you?

[gillyglops]

DP and I have been having problems with our sex life - his depression and health problems have meant that it's pretty non-existent and has been for quite some time. It's been difficult talking about it, because he finds it very hard to open up, but he's finally agreed to seek some counselling. All very well, but...

A couple of weeks ago, he went to visit a friend and his wife. While the husband was out of the room, he asked the wife if she was ok, as she'd seemed down the last time he'd seen her. She told him that she and her hubby were having problems in the bedroom dept. At this, he opened up to her and told her we were going through the same. Before he left, she gave him some herbal viagra-type tablets to try. He only told me about all of this last night - said he'd kept it quiet because he knew I would be upset.

He's right, I'm very upset. After months of telling me that he hates even having to talk to me about our problems, and after us nearly splitting up before he agreed to counselling, he suddenly finds it opportune and appropriate to open up to his close friend's wife. He says I'm being unreasonable and should feel happy that he felt able to tell someone, as it bodes well for him talking to a counseller. He also says he only told her because she brought the topic up, but as I see it she only brought it up because he invited her to have a heart-to-heart about how she was while her husband was absent.

I'm not happy that the person he felt he could tell was another man's wife, particularly since she then asked him to keep the conversation private from her husband. So presumably her husband would be pissed off that she's talking about their problems to his friend, but I'm supposed to be overjoyed that he's managed to pour out his heart to another woman. The fact he waited two weeks to tell me also bothers me greatly. His response to my being annoyed was 'Well I'll know to keep my mouth shut about things in future then' - so he's basically telling me that he was right to keep this from me and he'll do so even more in future.

Would you be happy about your DH/DP talking over such intimate problems with another woman, and then keeping it from you, even if only temporarily? I really can't see that it's me being unreasonable, but perhaps I'm just not seeing clearly. After all the troubles we've had (and there have been loads!) I thought we were getting closer and sharing everything, and now I find he's keeping things from me, and thinking that he's right to do so.

[BalloonSlayer]

My gut feeling when reading this is that the story is balls and that he got them off t'internet and for some reason is embarrassed and thought "being given them by a friend's wife" sounded better.

As you say - he is reluctant to talk to a counsellor, so it follows that he would be highly unlikely to spill it all to a friend's wife.

[bringbacksideburns]

He didn't have to tell you but he did. I'd be a bit miffed yes, but, unless you feel that there is more to it with this woman, i would let it go this once. I would say next time please talk to me. YANBU to be upset.

It shows he is trying to sort things out but has gone about it in the wrong way.

[BalloonSlayer]

Oh and isn't it convenient that right at the moment that he caves in and agrees to counselling, after resisting it for so long, all of a sudden right out of the blue some "miracle" non-counselling solution to the problem is given to him?

[gillyglops]

I suppose it does bother me that it was this woman, as I know he likes to be flirty with her, although what I call flirting he calls innocent banter. Apparently when visiting he will usually call her sweetie and honey etc and talk about how he'll take her away and treat her how she deserves. He says her hubby sees this happening and it doesn't bother him.
Despite being together over two years, I've met these people once, and DP has admitted before that he's reluctant to take me to see them because he knows I'd be unhappy with his 'banter' with her. He claims though that I've only met them once because he's always so busy, but he has visited them a few times - he seems to always decide to drop in on them when it would be impossible for me to come along with him. Again, I'm called unreasonable when I mention this and told it's all just coincidence.

He told me that talking to this woman made him understand things from my side, which again I find insulting - I've told him before how I'm feeling about our issues, but it only makes sense to him when this woman talks to him? He said maybe she just said it differently so it clicked. My response was maybe he actually listened to her, where he hasn't been listening to me.

[frutilla]

Hmm, was thinking BalloonSlayer must be right, but if it wasn't true, he would have said his friend gave them to him. Why would he bring it up with the friend's wife? I'd be pissed off if he'd discussed his sex life with this woman...

[gillyglops]

I know he didn't get the tablets off the internet, BalloonSlayer - believe me, the rumpus this caused last night meant admitting to an internet buy would have been much simpler. He's told me before that he's looked at such tablets, but his health problems mean he'd be reluctant to try that avenue. He showed me the tablets last night, before putting them in the bucket.

[BalloonSlayer]

Well if he has confided in her he has some sexual problems then it doesn't sound as if he is trying to flirt with her too much.

[frutilla]

Gillyplops, if you're never there, how do you know about all this banter? Does he give you a blow by blow account of it after? And he tries to exclude you from the friendship too. How cruel! It looks like he's using his relationship with her to make you insecure and jealous, but why do you stand for it?...

[gillyglops]

That was his argument BalloonSlayer, and to be honest, I don't believe that he has designs on this woman. I do think though that it's a betrayal of our relationship to talk to another woman about things he can hardly talk to me about, then keep it from me for a fortnight because he knew I'd be upset.

We're on very fragile ground just now, because a few months back I found he'd been looking at dating sites and at porn. He said this was linked to his sexual problems and that he was trying to find a way to reignite his ability to be aroused. I know he only looked and never contacted anyone, and he said afterwards that he knew how stupid he'd been, but it very nearly split us up, and really damaged my trust in him. To find out now that he's still trying to deal with things without involving me and is keeping things from me makes me deeply question our relationship.

[ThatsNotMyBabyBelly]

I would be wary of a man and a woman who had a lot of "banter" talking about their lack of sex lives with other people.

Also, assuming that you are not over sensitive, I would not like my dh not inviting me out with people because he says I wouldn't like the way he talks to them. That says to me he knows he is being inappropriate.

[gillyglops]

frutilla he has told me how he is with her. I have witnessed him being this flirty way with other women, and it's been in response to my getting annoyed about it that he tells me details of how he is with other women, so that I can see how 'normal' it is and how it doesn't mean anything

Maybe I'm just not laid-back enough, but to my mind if he calls me sweetie and sexy, he shouldn't be calling anyone else it, because if it's meaningless when he calls other women that, it's just as meaningless when he calls me those things.

[Punkatheart]

I have never heard of herbal viagra. But even if they are herbal - no one should give anyone medication that is strong enough to get someone an erection. It is only up to a doctor to assess that.

But no...I would NOT be happy.

[floosiemcwoosie]

I am not excusing his behaviour in any way as i can understand how it has made you feel. However sometimes it easier to talk to someone who is outside of the situation.

[gillyglops]

I agree it can be easier to talk to someone else floosie, but I've lost count of the times DP has said he would never talk to anyone about his relationship or his sex life, he considers it nobody else's business. And when we'd had our first really open talk about our problems, he said he'd be very unhappy if I talked to any of my friends about it, as he'd hate for them to know he was having physical problems. He actually said he'd rather my friends thought he was a total shit to me than have them know he had sexual problems. So I've had nobody to talk to but him, and that's felt like a battle every time, but at the drop of a hat he decides he can suddenly open up to another woman. Then decides he'd better not tell me about it until he finds the right moment. It really doesn't feel like we're close at all.

[frutilla]

Well, if it was me, I would insist that if he goes over to X's house again, I come too. I can't stand any kind of murkiness when there's another woman involved. If it's clear that it's just friends and all above board, fine, but I wouldn't want to be kept out of the picture.

[floosiemcwoosie]

it does seem as if there is a real emotional disconnection

If he loves you he will understand that you need to speak to someone

I hate to say this gillyglops but he seems very controlling. I would think there are more problems here than you have mentioned

[izzywhizzyletsgetbusy]

To recap: your dh visited his close friend and on asking the cf's wife if she was 'feeling ok as she'd seemed down the last time he saw her', she immediately revealed that she and her dh are having problems in the 'bedroom dept' (as you do) which, in turn, lead your dh to 'open up' about your intimate relationship.

Obviously they had an intensive conversation which wasn't conducted in a matter of minutes, yet it allegedly occurred while his close friend was 'out of the room'.

Having told your dh to keep their conversation private from her husband, she gave him tablets before he left. Did her husband leave the room again, or did she slip them into your dh's pocket without him seeing what she was doing?

Your dh may well have had this lengthy conversation with his close friend's wife, but I doubt very much that said friend was conveniently out of the room - seems to me it's more likely that he was not at home any time that evening. And your dh has been clutching the magic pills that might be the answer to his prayers to his bosom for the past two weeks before telling you?

Please believe that it's certainly not my intention to raise your suspicions unnecessarily but I'm getting a whiff of a very distinct eau de cod.

Until you get the truth out him it won't be easy for you to reach some resolution that will enable you to move on from the fact that he chose to discuss your intimate problems with a friend's wife without your consent or knowledge but, whatever the truth may be, he's been a total arse and from what you've said there doesn't seem to be much hope that he won't carry on being one.

[gillyglops]

izzywhizzy, he said the husband left the room to take a phone call, and then went outside and didn't return, but he also claims that the whole conversation took only a matter of minutes. Now, it doesn't ring true to me either that at being asked if there's something wrong by your husband's friend, you immediately blurt out something so private, but he's sticking to that story. He says they talked for only a few minutes, then went to follow her husband outside. Before they went outside, she went and got the tablets to give to him.

He also keeps saying that it wasn't an in-depth conversation, and they didn't share any 'details', just talked about the fact they were having similar problems, and he doesn't see how that's totally irrelevant. It's the fact he volunteered the information at all, then colluded with keeping it secret from her husband.

To my mind, if it's all so innocent, he should have no problem telling her husband that they're both going through the same thing, but of course he wants to follow her wishes to keep it private from him, while saying it's ok because he didn't keep it private from me, eventually.

[izzywhizzyletsgetbusy]

It a betrayal on so many levels; he betrayed your confidence, she presumably betrayed her husband's, they agreed to keep it secret between them which is another betrayal, and now he's betrayed her by telling you.

Of course, the most hurtful aspect of this situation is that you've struggled for months without much joy to get him to open up to you and that, without so much as a by your leave, he chose to reveal your intimate problems to his friend's wife that he has a somewhat flirtatious attitude to - and seemingly did so without much prompting.

What a plonker! Can't he see that exchanging personal information with a stranger that you're unlikely to see again is infinitely preferable to telling someone who, no matter how far removed, is part of your social circle?

If he couldn't keep his mouth shut about their exchanged confidences, who knows who she may have blabbed to? How can you feel comfortable about seeing her again? Being of a cynical turn of mind, it has occurred to me that it may suit him just fine if you decline any future invitations to meet up his close friend and wife.

I could continue in this vein for some time - as I'm sure you already have - but the big question now is 'what to do?'

Given that he experienced no problem in opening the floodgate with his indiscretion, I see no reason why he should find any difficulty in sitting down with you and - at long last - revealing how he feels about his/your problems in the 'bedroom dept'. It could be that if he finally unburdens himself, he won't have need of counselling.

He also needs to reassure you that he's not going to make a habit of disclosing your intimate secrets to friends/family/acquaintances/colleagues etc, and that, far from keeping his 'mouth shut about things in future', he is going to do his utmost to be open and honest with you in all things.

I'm orry to say that I've still got niggles about this - you've only met his 'closest friend' and his wife once? Do they have pampas grass growing in their front garden?

[izzywhizzyletsgetbusy]

'orry d'uh....'sorry' (and he bloody well should be!)

[madonnawhore]

I don't believe his story about how he came to have the herbal viagara. It just doesn't add up.

Also, even herbal remedies can be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing with them. If he takes some medication that some random person gave him after a 5 min conversation (supposedly) then he's a moron.

[peterpan99]

sometimes its easier to talk to someone outisde of the relationship.
i wouldnt be annoyed about it, just greatful he's had the conversation, told you , and moved on

[gillyglops]

izzywhizzy I want to thank you for suggesting that his friend wasn't actually there at the time - to be honest I'd believed he was there but they'd somehow kept out the way for their heart to heart. After reading your message I looked at his phone and found a message from his friend from the day in question, saying he wouldn't be in but his wife was around. Confronted DP and he admitted it was just the two of them there. He then said he only lied because he knew I'd have had a problem with him being there alone with her, and that for a long time he's felt he can't tell me anything about female friends because I react badly, which I know is often true, as I am very insecure - some of it from my own history and some of it from his behaviour over our time together.

Anyway, I told him to go last night. He claims he's told me lies and withheld things because I'm so uptight about anything to do with his female friends. I responded that if he'd ever made the effort to let me get to know them, maybe I'd have relaxed about his friendships. He maintains though that he has never done anything remotely unfaithful, and the lies were told to avoid arguments brought about by my insecurities. There is fault on both sides, I know, but I can't get over the lying. After admitting talking to this woman about us, he said he'd now told me the whole truth, swore on his life to it while looking intently into my eyes, while all the time knowing he was still telling a big fat lie about her husband being there.

Thank you all for listening and offering advice, I'm very grateful.

[AnyFucker]

Oh dear, what a mess

I am sorry it ended up like this

Are you finishing it for good ?

Very astute of izzy