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He doesn't want to marry me - Long

(123 Posts)
ButternutSquish Thu 25-Aug-11 14:37:27

Name Changed for this one....

Sorry, this will be long but I want to fill you in on some background.

I met my DP online nearly 3 years ago & we moved in about 17 months ago. Prior to moving in, he told me that he'd had a breakdown in the past and he took tablets. He's a bit quirky and he'd been fine so I was ok with that.

When looking for a house he decided he wanted to buy alone and I'd pay a 'rent'. I was a bit miffed but as I already had a house I figured that it was early days and it gave me security if anything went wrong in the beginning. We chose the house together but just before moving in he asked me to sign a cohabitation agreement, which is in effect a pre-nup. I was quite shocked but when we talked it through I felt it didn't really make any difference. We both have good jobs, and I don't need him for his money or anything. Then his parents came down and his Dad give me a little 'chat' and was asking whether I was contributing to the morthage, etc etc.

Anyway, we moved in, everythings been fine although I did find out that he is has schizophrenia which I wish he'd been honest about.

I've been married before & the divorce was finalised whilst we've been dating. I've always been very honest about wanting to get married again at some point, and I felt that moving in together was a stepping stone to this.

Last year after some rather athletic and satisfactory sex (sorry, tmi) whilst in the afterglow I said that I wanted to marry him. Not an actual proposal, just a statement. He flipped a bit and said it was far too soon and what was I thinking of. I was quite upset, & we discussed it. He said, not never, just not yet.

Aside from this my friend makes bridal jewellery & tiaras and so the subject of weddings comes up quite alot and of course we've talked about our dream weddings. She is a friend of both of us, and we chat about her and her business and he's asked me what my dream wedding would be. He also often says things like, 'let's run away to Vegas'.

A couple of months ago during a conversation, he told me that he never wanted to get married. I was really shocked as I thought he should have mentioned it before hand. I asked him if it was about the money (he has more than me) but he said no, and he just didn't want to as things always seemed to go wrong. I thought about leaving but that seemed ridiculous as the whole point is that I want to be him, faults and all. At some point later he told me that he didn't want to get married now, but he would at some point later.

A couple more months have gone by and during a conversation about the house it became apparent that the reason why he didn't want to marry me was the money. He has recently be made a Partner in the firm he works for. I offered to sign a Pre-nup but he still says no. I feel he doesn't trust me and I do pride myself on my ethics. I have my own house, my own business, car, savings and I pay half for everything. I feel as if he's ripped my heart out.

After a massive row he admits he's got caught up in the money side of things and been blinded by it. He admits that I've never done anything to make him feel that I would want to take anything from him. I have handed back the jewellery (a few nice things) back to him as I don't want anyone to think I have taken anything from him. (he didn't take it but I put it in one of his drawers).

We've managed to get back on track although I feel everything is very fragile at the moment, and it wasn't helped by a visit to his parents where his dad quizzed me on my pension arrangements (WTF!!) He's away on business and back on saturday and he told me on the phone he's bought me "something". I love presents the same as anyone, but I feel I can't accept it but it I don't we'll be back to square one.

Feeling really shit, and works really stressful at the moment. And just had the period from hell after being nearly 3 weeks late!

Wamster Thu 25-Aug-11 14:47:01

You've made the classic female (sorry, but it is more likely that a female has this view) mistake of thinking that cohabitation must mean commitment.
He doesn't want to get married to you and he doesn't want the relationship to be the classic type of mortgage and children, if it is possible for you to move out, do so. Continue seeing each other and reassess how you feel in a few months or so.

paddypoopants Thu 25-Aug-11 14:49:19

I think if I were you I would run from the hills. Even if he did marry you his attitude to HIS money and HIS property would only cause huge tension between you. How likely is it that he would change just because you are married. I am presuming, as you are too probably, that he has learnt all this from his parents. It sounds horrible that he is so paranoid that you are going to take him for a ride. I would agree with wamster that he is unlikely to agree to marriage anyway. Sorry.

CotesduRhone Thu 25-Aug-11 14:54:07

I'm sorry but I would be more concerned that he lied to you about his schizophrenia than anything else. That's not the action of someone who intends you to be a full partner in their life.

I'm so sorry (as it does seem like it's what you want) but it doesn't appear to be that you're both on the same page. You've got a lot of thinking to do, to tell the truth.

Wamster Thu 25-Aug-11 14:54:54

Moving out may seem drastic but at the moment you are in the halfway house of not being committed properly (which, OK, does not have to mean legal marriage) yet living together, you won't be happy in this situation because it is limbo. At least with just dating, a lot of the stress you currently have will go and give you space to think more clearly.

oldwomaninashoe Thu 25-Aug-11 14:56:00

It sounds like he has been brought up in a "money is all important" enviroment.

When you first knew him and went on "dates" did he ever treat you or did you always pay for yourself.

I would be deeply upset by this mindset, and find it hard to live with. I actually think it is not about marriage, he is obviously thinking that you could at some stage could become a financial burden on him, he is not so in love with you that his mindset can be altered

ButternutSquish Thu 25-Aug-11 14:57:36

Thanks to both of you. I really have 2 choices. Stay and know that he won't marry me or break up, which I don't want either. And if he DID marry me, it would be because I'dve nagged him into it. Heads I lose, tails I lose too! sad

I've been very open and honest from the start about wanting things to move forward towards marriage, so it's hardly shocking.

And his attitude to money isn't good. He can be really generous and I think I am too (I've bought a £200 watch for him for his birthday) but then he says that I'm tight which really pisses me off angry

solidgoldbrass Thu 25-Aug-11 14:57:37

THe paranoia may well be part of the schizophrenia (rather than ordinary selfishness). However, that doesn't really help you, does it? It doesn't sound like this relationship is going to give you what you want, and you would probably do best to cut your losses or at least pull back a lot. He is not really capable of loving you in the way you appear to need and wearing yourself out trying to 'make' him do so is a non-starter.

Ephiny Thu 25-Aug-11 15:06:28

It doesn't sound like he wants to have the sort of shared-household, joint-finances married family life that many of us do. Which is fine and entirely his choice, but if it's not what you want you need to think carefully about the future of the relationship, given that you seem to have such different values. He might change his view in the future, but there's a good change he won't, and I certainly wouldn't depend on it.

Do you mind if I ask how old you both are? Do you want to have children (I assume you don't already as you don't mention them), and does he feel the same way, have you discussed it?

Why do you think his dad keeps asking you about mortgage, pensions etc? I don't quite understand that bit...

TheOriginalFAB Thu 25-Aug-11 15:11:45

Not quite the same but I was with someone who didn't want to get married. This didn't come about for quite a while and probably had something to do with his parents acrimonious divorce. I told a friend I would rather live with him than not have him at all but I was only trying to convince myself. He did buy me a ring but never wanted to talk about getting married. I left him (he hit me) and after meeting a man on a blind date we spent all day together and at the end of the day I asked him he wanted to get married and have kids. He looked a bit shocked but I told him he didn't have to marry me but I had spent 2 years with someone who didn't, and I didn't want to waste my time again. The man and I are now married with children and animals grin.

My advice would be to move to your own place, take a break and then see how things are. I also think you should tell his father to stay out of you relationship.

HardCheese Thu 25-Aug-11 15:11:57

Sympathies to you, OP - this is a messy situation. I agree with Solidgoldbrass that the financial paranoia may be an element of his illness, and the schizophrenia may also explain why his parents appear to feel that he is the financially vulnerable one in the relationship, and keep being rather intrusive about your finances. Unless they are the most awful, nosey Scrooges, I can't think of any other reason why they seem to feel as if you might be exploiting him! Also, are they the ones who keep putting the idea of financial explotation into his head?

Him telling you doesn't trust you and won't marry you because of the finances must have been appallingly hurtful, and it makes me sad that you've given back jewellery he gave you as a present, so you won't be perceived as having taken anything from him!

I do think you should pull back, for your own sake, and if not actually issue an ultimatum, make it plain he needs to have counselling to resolve some of this stuff, which is in his head, and has nothing to do with your actual behaviour. Also, remember you have done nothing wrong!

ButternutSquish Thu 25-Aug-11 15:13:47

@ oldwomaninashoe When we first dated we split everything 50/50. Then I started noticing that when we'd go into a bar he'd step back and allow me to get the drinks. I'm very happy to pay my way but in the end I had to talk to him about it. He said that none of his previous g/fs had treated him and he really liked it confused but after that we've always paid half. The "rent" I pay now goes into a joint savings account which he matches, so in effect I do live in his house rent free.

@cotesdurhone When I asked him about the schizophrenia (I googled the name of the tablets & found out that way) he said he was really scared that I'd run a mile. To be fair, it's all in control and we've never had an episode.

ButternutSquish Thu 25-Aug-11 15:30:12

I'm so glad I've written all this down. I don't want to leave him as I love him (obviously) but I know I've got some decisions to make.

He is the sweetest, gentlest, most caring person you could ever wish to meet. He tells me he loves me 10 times or more a day and is very affectionate. I feel he loves me IYSWIM. The schizophrenia doesn't impact on our lives on a day to day basis, and I hadn't really though of the money paranoia being part of it. We work because I 'get' him and understand he's a little bit different.

Neither of us have children; I can't as I have endometriosis, am 43 so v unlikely to fall pregnant & he's happy with that because he doesn't feel he'd be able to cope with a very demanding job & a small child. Again, it works for us.

His parents are interfering busy-bodies but fortunately they live 350 miles away so we see them about 3 times a year. Phew to that but when we do see them it's for days on end. It's his fault as he tells them everything! They know how much he earns, how much the mortgage is, how much savings he has etc. I just think they honestly think they can ask anything and have no idea of how rude and intrusive they're being. During another one of our 'chats' his dad wanted to know EVERYTHING about my business. If it had been anyone else i'dve told them for fuck off, but when it's your DP's parents and you're staying in their house it's difficult. But I have told DP he has to tell them that they can't ask those sort of questions and if they do they'll get the rough edge of my tongue.

TimothyClaypoleLover Thu 25-Aug-11 15:51:24

My friend in RL is going through this exact same problem with her DP. She wants to get married, he doesn't. She has decided to stay with DP knowing he doesn't want to get married and is deeply unhappy at the prospect of no wedding.

You need to work out if marriage is really that important to you because if it is you are better to cut your losses now.

And IMO the money issues are really going to grate if you do decide to stay together.

AttilaTheMeerkat Thu 25-Aug-11 16:03:01

I think you also have some tough decisions to make here as well.

I would ask you what you are getting out of this relationship now?. Its all in his favour with regards to the power; there is certainly a power struggle here.

He can certainly tell you he loves you ten times a day etc but look at his actions closely. To write also "I feel he loves me" is very sad; all that has happened are truly not the actions of a truly loving man. You are certainly not solely responsible for his wellbeing; he is also responsible for that too.

If he does not want to marry you after being together for 4.5 years then I am sorry but he will never do so.

If you want marriage and children then you are ultimately going to have to find someone else to be in a relationship with (they are not all commitment phobic) because he wants neither.

He has and continues to put money above you. He wanted you to sign a pre nup agreement (what the court would have made of it subsequently is anyone's guess) and wanted also to buy a house without your name being mentioned presumably on either the mortgage or title deeds. If this is indeed the case he could throw you out and you would have no legal comeback whatsoever.

(BTW I have endometriosis and am a parent - it is not a complete barrier to conception. If your periods are very painful still I would seek medical advice from a gynaecologist and one at that who has a specialist interest in endo).

You deserve better actually from life; you're in real danger of selling yourself short.

ButternutSquish Thu 25-Aug-11 16:07:09

@ TimothyClaypoleLover yes, i know I need to work out whether it's the big dress that I want or if it's just him. One of the last things I shouted at him was that I wasn't prepared to go to any of his friends up and coming weddings. My reasoning, childish as it seems, is why should I go to something with him & celebrate something that he denys me. Very childish.

He has a phsyciatrist (sp?) appointment soon. I'm think I'm going to ask him to discuss it with him.

AttilaTheMeerkat Thu 25-Aug-11 16:08:49

He is more than happy to let you pay half for everything; you probably feel obligated too as well.

This is something else for you to consider:-
And if he was to pass away his parents are next of kin; not you. In law you are not related to each other. As his partner you have very little rights in law; this is also probably why his overbearing parents keep quizzing you over the finances. You could well end up with nothing. They are on their son's side and would put him above you any day of the week even if you did get married. I would not count on any support from them whatsoever even if you did marry their son which is unlikely given what he has said. Listen to what he has told you; that is how much he really thinks of you.

AttilaTheMeerkat Thu 25-Aug-11 16:11:34

Even if your man did agree to talk about this to his pysch (which I doubt very much), you will receive no details of how that conversation went.

TobyLeWolef Thu 25-Aug-11 16:12:59

Why is the marriage part so important to you, OP?

ButternutSquish Thu 25-Aug-11 16:22:07

@ Attila, sorry, I may not have made myself clear. We have been together for just under 3 years, and not 4.5. That's why I can deal with the 'i'm not ready bit'.

When I say "I feel he loves me", I mean that I don't think it's words just being said. He is loving and kind, and it's really only this part that's the problem. Albeit, quite a big problem.

I know that it's possible to conceive with endo, but I doubt that will happen for me after all this time. For the most I've come to accept that. I found out I have this due to some infertility treatment rather than painful periods. I'm normally very lucky on that count. At 43 my chances of conceiving naturally are pretty low so if it were to happen, great (for me) but if not, well, I've known this for many years.

I'm not sure he puts money above me, but I do know what you mean. I'm not desperately bothered about signing a pre-nup as I don't want anything from him, but it's the idea that he thinks I do that hurts and upsets me. Part of my argument is that we have to trust people in our life in general and I have used the argument that I trust that I won't come home and find all my things on the front lawn. He says he wouldn't do that, and I say, yes, I trust you not to do that.

He is a bit of a control freak but I am usually quite easy going so on the whole it's not so much of a problem. Stupid things like he won't let me buy a bigger bin drives in insane, bigger things annoy me less. He says it's part of his illness where he thought people were trying to control him. You have to plant a seed sometimes of the things you want to do and then let him come up with the idea......a bit like a lot of men!

He wants to commit to me & be with me, that's not an issue. He doesn't want to be single and seeing other women, so it's not commitment-phobic.

ExitPursuedByATroll Thu 25-Aug-11 16:25:32

Perhaps moving back to your own house for a while would give you the space to decide what it is you want.

To me, a commitment to each other means sharing everything. I know there are many people on here who do not have joint bank accounts and their relationships work very well, but I could not stand all that hassle over money. If he loves you why does he not want to share everything with you?

ButternutSquish Thu 25-Aug-11 16:29:04

@ Attila I want to pay for half of everything. I work hard, I earn good money, I don't need him to pay for me.

I understand that not being married gives me no rights to his house etc. That's ok, I have my own house which is currently rented out. This isn't about money from my perspective. He can leave his money to the cats home if he wants to.

@ Tobeylewelof I guess I'm just a traditionalist at heart. I want him to stand in front of everyone and say..."yes, I love this woman & I want to spend the rest of my life with her". Marriage to me is about that, the celebration of your love for each other.

TimothyClaypoleLover Thu 25-Aug-11 16:29:51

I also thinking moving back to your own house for a while would help you both get a bit of perspective and realise what is important to you both.

Bit concerned about the controlling behaviour to the extent he dictates what you can and can't buy. That is not good grounds for a healthy relationship.

solidgoldbrass Thu 25-Aug-11 16:30:32

He doesn't want to commit to you, but he wants you to be committed to him. Basically he is content with the idea that you are desperately in love with him and want to marry him because this means he is the one with the power in the relationship. Again, this may be more to do with his illness than him being an exploitative person - I wonder how much you know about schizophrenia? People with MH issues often view the world in a different way to others and selfishness is a very common factor in MH problems (the person with MH issues really can't think outside his/her own needs) which can make living with such a person very difficult.
How much are you really prepared to put up with, in terms of financial insecurity and an awareness that you are letting him call all the shots, just in order not to be single?

SingOut Thu 25-Aug-11 16:31:07

What's standing out for me is the not being honest with you about his schizophrenia, and him not wanting to get married but (presumably) leading you up the garden path a bit and letting you think it might happen 'one day' when really the answer was never. Those both speak of deception to me, and I would not be happy with that if I was in your situation.

You've probably worked this last thing out already but... the longer you stay together, the harder it gets if/when you do break up. If you know there's a glaring incompatibility now, I'd advise you to get out and sooner rather than later. Then you'll be free to eventually meet someone else with whom there are not these massive niggles.

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