Don't you trust me?

[Millington]

What can you say to this question when you desperately want to trust the person but have some suspisions sneaking in?

I think I have found some message to DP from another woman. That is a whole other story. But when I spoke to him about it he had an explaination and asked;

"Don't you trust me?"

Now of course I want to trust him, anything like this would be completely out of character and totally out of the blue, but what if it's true?

How can I say; "yes, I trust you but trust doesn't mean blindly accepting anything that happens, and I want to find out a bit more about this?"

Does "Don't you trust me?" always = guilty?

[fastweb]

*How can I say; "yes, I trust you but trust doesn't mean blindly accepting anything that happens, and I want to find out a bit more about this?"

Is that really what you think ? Do you really think trust is there, or is it "oh god, dare I hope for trustworthiness" rather than the real deal ?

You are allowed to have a wobble and have a trust dip if something happens that leads you to doubt. We all know that no relationship comes without guarantees and asking for blind trust is too much to ask. If it is every other week with no grounds it would be very trying for the de-trusted partner, but it is hardly crime of the centuray against the institution of marriage as a once in a blue moon sort of thing

A partner that loves you and is worthy of trust might be taken aback and a bit hurt by a less than enthusiastic declaration of a dip in trust, but their primary objective will be to give you every reason to put trust back on the menu if your wobble is a bolt from the blue for them. No ?

They won't go hell for leather trying to punish you for having a doubt or make the trust question overly loaded with implied threat of retribution if you get the answer to the question "don't you trust me ?" wrong.

It would not suit their purposes of getting harmony and happy families back on the right footing.

Who can love somebody, see them suffering with a dip in trust and not want to to make them feel better and take all the unnecessary doubt away ?

Who would in that moment ignore their partner's obvious distress\worry\fears and instead throw a hissy fit about their own (overly prioritized in comparison) hurt feelings ?

Tell him the truth. If that is "Right now, I'd like to trust, but I'm having a wobble." then that is fair enough.

Note carefully his response. If he prioritises a stratagy that intends to manipulate you into immediatly taking back of any doubt in him...then it might be an idea to do a little more digging.

[Millington]

Sorry, I've just noticed that this posted twice- posting for the first time from my phone!

Thanks RabbitPie. I have never questioned him before, I haven't ever had cause to. But when something does come along that you feel you need to question a bit deeper (as I think it has) then does that mean you no longer trust the person? And if it all turns out to be innocent then how can you reassure yourself and your partner that the trust is still there?

[SingingTunelessly]

Millington, don't let him shout you down about not trusting him. Something has obviously happened to make you doubt him. You say there is a message from another woman then "That is a whole other story". What do you mean by that?

[fastweb]

But when something does come along that you feel you need to question a bit deeper (as I think it has) then does that mean you no longer trust the person?

It means you are being sensible and listening to yourself rather than sticking your fingers in your ears and going "lalalalahhhhhhh I can't heaaaaaaaaaar you"

And if it all turns out to be innocent then how can you reassure yourself and your partner that the trust is still there?

Tell them that you don't take them for granted, that you still think they are attractive and can see why somebody else would be too. And that is scary, because you love them and the thought of a rival put you on high alert.

And people when they get scared want to find out everything they can, so they can protect a relationship that they value very much.

That your trust might have a wobble, but it is not broken, or even dented. Not least because of how they reacted to you verbalizing how you felt.

That you saw you could trust them to tread gently and seek to reassure and be utterly open when you were scared and in anticipation of potential horrible pain.

[Millington]

Thank you fastweb, that is exactly how I feel- an uncharacteristic dip or wobble in trust. I will explain that to him and see how he acts.

[venusandmars]

I suppose that trust is made up of many factors and many layers. If you are a trusting person, and have no reason to doubt your partner then your trust is likely to be very extensive and you trust absoloutely that your dp is being 100% honest and faithful to the values that you both believe in.

If something happens that causes you to question things, then it doesn't mean that trust has gone, it just means that something has occurred that you hadn't expected, and that you are questioning maybe whether you do share the same values, or questioning to find out more about the event(s).

You probably still have a huge amount of trust in your dp - you trust him to be honest in his replies to you; you trust him to listen to your concerns and to respect the fact that you have some questions; you trust him to offer you some reassurance; you trust him to let you know if the shared values and promises that you thought you had have changed; you trust him with your vulnerability.

However if that trust is to be respected (and the initial all-encompassing trust is to be rebuilt), then he has to do something positive towards helping that process.

[Millington]

Ok, the truth is out. And my suspicions WERE correct.

A few months ago I notice on my facebook new feed (yes, it involves facebook) that DP had become 'friends' with a girl's name I didn't recognise. Didn't particularly think anything of it. Over the next few days it kept showing up in my news feed over and over - 'DP is now friends with X', making it seem as though they kept ceasing to be friends then becoming friends again. I asked who she was, and he said she had sent him a friend request so he'd accepted, had a look at her profile, decided he didn't know her (her location is not out area and they have no mutual friends) so deleted her, but that she kept sending friends requests and they somehow kept becoming friends and he kept deleting her.

So last night, I was on the laptop, he was watching TV (same room). His facebook was logged in but I was looking at something else. A friend request popped up from the same girl. The name triggered my memory and I thought 'who IS this!?' so decided to accept the friend request so I could have a quick nosey at her profile then delete her. As I clicked 'accept' I said to DP 'that girl has added you again, I'm going to check her profile out'.

He suddenly jumped up and started saying 'no, no Millington, don't, she just keep bothering me, saying all this stupid stuff'. As soon as I had clicked accept, a message came through from her on facebook chat - 'oh wow, thanks for accepting, I sorry if your girlfriend's there but I wanted to speak to you, have missed you'. Straight away I was like 'erm, what's she on about?'. DP continued to act squirmy, saying 'she keeps sending me messages like this and bothering me, I have no idea who she is'.

I sent a few message back, with DP standing there next to me, such as - 'I don't know you, please stop adding me' (her reply - 'is someone with you right now, you're acting weird, don't you remember me?'), and 'how do we know each other?' (her reply - 'we've skyped a few times, you liked my pics and showed me your dick'). With that last one I replied 'please stop adding me' (her reply - 'no no, wait I'm sorry!') then clicked both delete and block.

DP continued with his story about her being some stranger who was bothering him - even saying it might not even be a girl, but someone out for a laugh winding people up. But something about his reaction seemed a bit off. I asked him if he even had a skype account, as I have never heard him mention it or known of him using it. He said no, he didn't have skype. Then a couple of minutes later, he 'remembered' - oh yes, he has got a skype account as he once had to use it at work a while ago but has never used it since. Everything seemed to be pointing one way and that's when I posted my OP about trust on here.

Anyway, this morning he was still maintaining the story about this girl being some sort of stalker. He was talking about how much he loved me and how he could understand that I why I would be upset about this but there was nothing to worry about. I asked him if I could have a look at his skype account. He had 'forgotten' his password so had to get it emailed. I asked him to log in to his email to retrieve the skype password, but while his email was logged in I searched for this girl's name in his inbox.

There it was. A message from facebook saying that she'd sent him a message - the email showed part of their facebook conversation.

Him: I like your pics, they make me really hard.
Her: I could see that, you make me really horny.
Him: Did you see my cock?
Her: Yes it was huge, Can we go on webcam again?
Him: My girlfriend is back soon.
Her: Ok, our little secret ok?

I am absolutely devastated. I showed him (all he could say was 'I'm so sorry') then left for work straight away, where I've been ever since. He's been texting - I'm so sorry, I just did it once and felt so guilty afterwards, I just want to move on, I love you so much' etc.

We've been together for 5 years, lived together for 3, bought a house together last year. No DC. Sex much less regular than when we were first together. As well as 'chatting' to this girl, it's the lies that have really got me as he denied it all night and probably still would be if I hadn't seen that message.

:(

[fastweb]

Oh sweetheart, I'm so sorry.

Do you know what you want to do next or are you still in too much shock to even think about it ?

Can either you or he stay elsewhere for a few days so you get some time to clear your head ?

[Fairenuff]

Millington I am so sorry. I think he denied it all night and probably still would be if I hadn't seen that message says it all.

Not only would he still be denying it, but also continuing to cheat on you.

You have a good 'gut feeling' - listen to what it's telling you now.

[fastweb]

it's the lies that have really got me as he denied it all night and probably still would be if I hadn't seen that message

That is the kicker isn't it. To know they would have kept you in the dark, despite knowing the doubt was causing you turmoil and distress.

To leave somebody in that state rather than volunteer the truth is such a betrayal. When they chose to protect their image at the expense of their partner's far more serious need to feel on solid ground. It is so selfish and so cruel.

My ex husband would have gone on denying for god knows how long had I not accidentally discovered his shrine to his...whatever she was...lurking behind my wardrobe.

An urge to spring clean can clear out more than dust I discovered. All the lies came scuttling out into the sunshine where they exploded and left ashes where my heart used to be.

Thankfully hearts are modeled on the phoenix.

I wish you weren't in the club of women who discovered an unpalatable truth. (although rather that than the club of women being driven insane because the truth is deliberately hidden from them, while every fiber of them shrieks a warning that something is very very "off".)

I wish he hadn't forced membership onto you.

But I want you to know that you are not alone, and you will get through this.

[Millington]

Thank you fastweb, and everyone. I am definitely in too much shock to think about what happens now.

He has actually meant to be going away today to his brother's (about 150 miles away) then I was to join them on Saturday (as am working today and tomorrow, he is off). He was meant to be going this afternoon but I don't think he has gone, don't know whether to tell him to just go, for some time apart, or whether we need to talk and not let things fester. But what's to be said?

So far I have told one poor random (but lovely) colleague who happened to walk past me in the corridor while I looked bleary eyed and asked what was wrong, it all just came out. Feel bad as have only worked here 3 months and she doesn't really know me that well and doesn't know my DP at all, or perhaps that's better.

[Fairenuff]

He just did it once?

Where/when/how did he meet this woman?

A random person online who he happened to show his cock to?

I would be asking a lot more questions yet.

[fastweb]

it all just came out.

Good. Stiff upper lip has it's place, but you have had a hell of a shock love and a shoulder is a good thing.

What does your gut tell you about him not going away as planned ?

Do you feel ready to do the rest of your investigating right away ? Cos love, there probably will be more. People don't usually start with waggling their willy about at complete strangers on the net, they tend to work up to that part.


Or

Do you need a break, to regroup and set up your RL support system and maybe go find out your legal position in terms of the house, whatever you decide to do in the end, before picking up the spade and digging to see what else is there ?

[Millington]

Lovely colleague had been so lovely, chatting to me about it all.

Oh it sounds so scary to be thinking about legal position for the house etc :(

I don't know if I want to delve deeper and find out more- I feel like something's happened and that's it, I don't need to know how much. Like it's raining and I'm already drenched so it makes no difference if I get much wetter, I'm still going to be looking for a way to dry out. Or is that really stupid?

[keynesian]

Re.delving deeper... You have a decision (more probably a series of decision) to make and you owe it to yourself to make that/those decisions with as much knowledge of the truth possible. So I think you do need to delve deeper or forever you'll question whether you made the right decisions - whatever those are.

[fastweb]

Oh it sounds so scary to be thinking about legal position for the house etc

It took me a long time to go to a lawyer, because I was scared. But in all honesty knowing was less scary than guessing.

Not knowing everything is only an issue if you want to stay with him.

If the foundation of the relationship cracked beyiond reparir on first contact with this revelation, then ..what is done is done, cannot be undone, and so as long as you take the precaution of getting tested (to be on the safe side) you don't need the gory details and the full extent to fill your head, if you would rather not.

Be beware staying without full disclosure, cos even if you find out five years from now that the original "crime" was just the tip of the iceberg all those years ago, it has the capacity to rock your world like it happened just yesterday, cos your whole post revelation life together will have been based on lies.

And things are so much more complicated if you have committed further, with children for example.

[Millington]

Thank you Keynesian, I know you're right deep down.

So, I get in from work, I see him... what do I say to him?

Questions? Like- how did you meet her? How many times? Any others?

Or telling him how much he's hurt me?

And what do I say when he asks me what happens next?

:(

[Fairenuff]

If you need time to think about it, tell him to move out and give you some space.

Certainly tell him how much he's hurt you. If he keeps making excuses, though, he may just hurt you more.

Firstly, he has to accept full responsibility for his actions. Would it make a difference to you to know how long he has been cheating on you? Weeks, months, years?

[fastweb]

what do I say to him?

-Tell me or don't tell, because in a few days I will know it all from another source, and if I discover that what you have revealed when given the chance is not the whole story the consequences will be far reaching.

Refuse to elaborate what the source is, let him be the one feverishly trying to work out if you have given remote access to his computer to an investigator or somebody has offered to blab or something in between. Stick to your guns and tell him he is no longer somebody you can trust and you need all the help you can get finding out the truth, so there is no way in hell you'd share the info that would let him thwart that objective. Refuse to eleborate on the consequence as well.

It puts him at the disadvantage, he is the one that has to work out if you are telling the truth, he is no longer exclusively holding all the "know" cards, he is the one who has to take a gamble with risks that are impossible to calculate.

If one tiny particle of your gut does not believe he is telling the truth, well so far love your gut has done you proud, so I'd be inclined to go with what it tells you.

If he seems desperate to rush off and start doing hard-drive housework, then brace yourself cos it means there has been an awful lot more going on.

And remember, no matter what he says, this is NOT your fault. You do NOT control his central nervous system. Everything he has done, is down to him.

[fastweb]

PS, do not do the above unless you are sure you can pull it off. It can backfire if he calls your bluff cos he can tell you are not committed to the line.

[fastweb]

Questions? Like- how did you meet her? How many times? Any others?

If you want a very direct approach, ask him when he started using cyber sex hook up sites, how many is he has a log on for and how many hook ups, viewing as well as performing for the camera, he has had so far. ask a bout frenquency and how far the women he is wathcing go. Is it just women he hooks up with , or is it couple too. Has he ever used a service that allows him to pay woman to perform for him while she watches him masturbate.

People don't just bump into other people into this sort of thing, they tend to go look for the places where those who are into cyber sex hang out. Think abou tit, when was the last time some random stranger got his willy out when you were chatting to him on line and demanded to see your boobs in return ?

There is a difference between walking into a pub for a quick half, and quite deliberately going to a meat market sort of nightclub with intent. Don't let him get away with fobbing you off with a "it just happened". Webcam sex hook ups don't just happen unless you go to the places where hooking up with webcams is the whole point of being there.

I would like to point out the only reason why I know the above is because a friend told me and showed me how the whole caboodle works.

Not a "friend" as nod nod wink wink I mean me, really a friend, whose husband twisted her arm cos it turned him on, and then he twisted her arm into upgrading to dogging.

[fastweb]

Sorry this is in bits and pieces not one post, small issue of interruptions this end.

Webcam sex hook ups don't just happen unless you go to the places where hooking up with webcams is the whole point of being there

And the evidence points to that being the sort of contact he has had as opposed to a relationship that "just happened" and developed on line,

Because the girl wasn't even sure if he would remember her.

You'd kind of remember somebody who had cyber sex with you...unless of course you met in a place where webcam sex with strangers was so normalized that is was understandable that one would tend to forget somebody who had been cavorting\masturbating for their pleasure because ..well..you lose track of who is who after a while.

I hate writing this. I hate knowing that stuff coming from my fingers feels like somebody is stabbing you with needles in your heart. But I also know there is a good chance he will try and convince you that he didn't seek this out. Whereas all the evidence points to him having done exactly that. And I don't want you to base your future on a lie.