Horrible Mess

[VioletIndigo]

Regular mner here. Name changed for this. Reasons will become very clear. This will be a stealth reveal, not because i've something to hide but because it's so horrid and complicated, I can't bring myself to write it all at once.

Bottom line is, my parents live with us. Mum had been nanny to the two dcs but we moved abroad, partly to escape her to be honest. Mum and dad lived in our house while we were away. For free. Now we're back, with extra dcs, and they're still here as they think we need them. I am desperate for them to go but money is an issue - they are pensioners and "can't" live on their pensions. They would have about £1000 after utility bills and rent were paid. Mum wants to nanny for us again and is currently helping with the kids but when I go back to work, I don't want her looking after the kids. Why? Because I think she has at least borderline HPD/NPD. She's a total bitch to my dad (who has a history of depression). So, what i'm looking for from this thread is help in identifying whether i'm right in that belief and how I can extricate our family from this awful situation with the least damage to everyone. Does anyone have a hpd mother? Help?!

[LuckyMrsT]

Sorry what is hpd? And the other one you said?

[VioletIndigo]

Sorry, narcissistic or histrionic personality disorders.

[fuckmepinkandcallmerosie]

I have an HPD/NPD mother and an enabler dad.

They no longer feature in my life. I have gone no contact and my life is much less stressy and dramatic as a result.

I have only sympathy. I would not for all the money in the world want to be in your position.

[squeakytoy]

Is selling the house an option?

[LuckyMrsT]

Oh gosh I still haven't a clue. Are you lot psychologists? Enabler??

I know it will be hard to say to them but it is not unreasonable to want to live just with your DH and DCs and they will have to respect that. They are in good health (DF's depression issues aside) and the have more than enough cash to live on.

How does your DH feel about them living with you? Does he feel the same?

Do you still need them for childcare? To be honest even if you do you need to risk losing it to get them out. Your marriage and happiness as a family are more important.

[GypsyMoth]

Do they have a home of their own to return to??

Cos if not, where are they to go?

[LuckyMrsT]

Oh sorry I didn't read the post properly - I see you don't want the childcare. There you go then. They WILL get over it.

[VioletIndigo]

They've never had their own home. Always rented or tied to work. There are lots of rental properties here and they would qualify for housing benefit that they don't get living with us. Thing is, we have a nice big house and dad is very used to it so doesn't like anything that's out there in their price range. I've offered to supplement their rent to get them somewhere bigger/nicer but mum just comes up with reasons why they can't - e.g. Who would do the laundry- she does it at the moment. Obsessively, every day, all day. I've asked her not to but she goes in a strop and stops talking to me - you know those atmospheres that are created when someone is a huff? That happens several times a week. And that's my fault because i have post natal depression. Allegedly. I don't of course, had enough cbt to know that. My dad has asked to get help/therapy. But she doesn't have a prolem. He does. I do. Everyone but her. And she gossips about me to my best friend behind my back.

[VioletIndigo]

Sorry, dad has asked her to get help/therapy.

[ChickensHaveNoEyebrows]

Just tell them firmly you want your house back. And don't react or listen to any histrionics. You can't change them, but you can grow your own back bone and refuse to engage with it.

[msshapelybottom]

What an awkward situation. I think there is only one way to go. Blunt honesty.

You need your home to yourself and you want them to move out. They are adults, they will be fine. Hard to do when there is manipulation and emotional blackmail going on.

Will your DH back you up?

[ShoutyHamster]

Blunt honesty is the only way. But you know this if you consider to have the personality type/(disorders?) that you describe.

You want to live with your nuclear family only. They need to move out.

It sounds as if approaching your dad with this (also bluntly!) might be a good way to get it started?

It will almost certainly end in some kind of falling out... But to be honest, if I had someone living with me whom I'd been kind enough to sub for that long, who was then trying to bully me into a position I didn't want to be in AND slagging me off behind my back, I'd probably not be too bothered at the thought of being blunt to them.

[itsraining]

Are you certain that your parents genuinely believe that you need to have them living with you to help them, or are they living with you because then they get a higher standard of living at your expense which they enjoy?

If you beleive your mother has an npd/hpd then why are you leaving your children in her care? Do you have any worries about this?

[verytellytubby]

I don't understand why you've let it go as far as you have if you are so worried about your mother's personality disorders. Why is she looking after your children?

Sounds like you need to be tough and evict them. What does your DH make of it all?

[VioletIndigo]

I agree, I don't know why I've let it get this far. I suppose because when I was working before we moved abroad, i wasn't around all day to see it. Now i am, and I am worried, which is why I don't want her to look after them all the time now. She gets so stressed and anxious and says it's because i'm there so she's not in charge. The older children will all be at school from September so it'll just be dd she would have. But I will be worried all the time. To be honest, my dad is really helpful, my dh is not practical so my dad really pulls his weight with the garden etc. But it's stuff I can do myself or could pay someone to do or get dh to pull his finger out! So, in some ways, it's been okay until i've been around enough to see it's a genuine problem, not just little foibles of my mum's. When i got pregnant with dc3, she went around saying to all her friends and acquaintances that she never signed up for three children to look after (despite me saying I would have the older children in school and arrange for extra help). She didn't talk to me for days after i told her i was pg. I was very upset to effectively be told by my mum how many children i could have. The other thing about npd or hpd is that i don't think the kids would come to any real harm. But i don't know enough about it - other than i must have had a touch of it when i was younger, which i've overcome through cbt, self awareness and time. To the extent that i am very closed and private as opposed to her "out there" behaviour combined with passive aggression.

[itsraining]

Thats the thing, you see. I would be worried about the emotional effect on the children, especially the youngest if your mother is caring for them. Tbh, it doesn't sound like anything's going to change unless you force it and you are ging to have to make a decision one way or the other and if you parents aren't happy to go then it sounds like a falling out is inevitable. How does you dh feel about things?

[Lucyinthepie]

"I am desperate for them to go but money is an issue - they are pensioners and "can't" live on their pensions. They would have about £1000 after utility bills and rent were paid."
To last how long? A month? Or a year? If it's a month then they are pretty well off and should have no problems moving out.
You know what you've got to do. One could suggest that they should have been saving towards this day all the time they were living in your house rent free.

[diddl]

TBH, I don´t think it matters what your mother may or may not have, if you don´t want to employ her as your nanny-don´t!

I assume they always managed before she became your nanny, & the will do again.

Or is the problem that they are now retired?

What if you hadn´t had your 3rd & were back?

Was the understanding that they would move out when you returned?

Why did they give up their last house?

[Ryma]

I wish my mum can come and help me with kids

[VioletIndigo]

Lucy, you are right. It's a month btw and I think that's okay. They should have been better off but dad's business failed and he went bankrupt and my waste of space brother owes them 20 grand after sponging off them for 20 years. But all mum thinks about is what she should have had not what she actually has. Drives me crazy. Why am i so different to her? The exact opposite. Nowher near perfect of course but i know what my faults are. I hate it when people take no responsibility for their decisions ( mum paid the small stamp all her life so gets no state pension in her own right, she has a small occupational one). But that's my mum and dad for you. Aaaarrrgghh.

[mummyosaurus]

Could you pay your dad to still do the gardening and handy work? That would supplement their living costs.

[ThePathanKhansWoman]

Just tell them you need them to move out. It must be so difficult for you, but

you have your relationship with your DH/DC to think of, they are your

priority.

Your mother/father are both adults and should accept that your growing family

needs room and space. I know it's hard, but you have to put yourself and the

happiness of your family first.Don't let your mother manipulate you any longer.

[Blu]

Of course they can manage financially, if they are entitled to housing benefit and have a pension!

You need to be clear and direct.. It is not your responsibility to look after their housing needs or satisfy your mother's need to be in control / interfere with your life.

Is this the childhood you want for your children? You KNOW that your mother will be as bad with them in your absence as she is when you are there, and could well be worse. I am amazed that your DH tolerates having them in the family home.

You must take some control over this - it isn't just your life, but your children's and DH's.

There is NO OTHER WAY other than to tell them that now you are back you wnat to make changes to the way you rin your household, and that you would like to live with privacy as a nuclear family. It is hardly unreasonable.

And what are you worried about? Upsetting the relationship with them? You aren't enjoying that relationship now!

And don't be deterred by the inevitable counter-arguments and speed-bumps she throws in your path. She worries about the laundry? Tell her it's not for her to worry about, it's your laundry. etc. Don't engage in the ifs and butts of it all because it isn't relevant.

[Blu]

£1000 after rent and bills is plenty plus!

[VioletIndigo]

Ryma, I know so many people would envy me having help like this. But it's actually not helping any more. It's destructive. and i feel responsible for everybody else's happiness. That's fine if it's my children, but not my parents. I love them and will help them where i can but need to cut these ties before they strangle me.

Yes, they were to move out when we got back. They moved to be nearer to us before we went abroad so mum could look after the two oldest dcs. We weren't here long before going abroad (dc3 was a month old when we went so she's never had sole care of him). That's why i feel bad. But she's never tried to get another job while we were away for three years.