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"But we took you to Statley Homes" Dysfunctional Families Thread(819 Posts)
Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.
Sorry my post killed the last thread
I made a new one so noone could shout at me
Plus you have to be nice to me now as i'm pregnant
[[http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1184134-But-we-took-you-to-Statley-Homes-Dysfunctional-Families-Thread Here is the link]
I have asked MN to link the two new threads together
Link Here to Previous Threads
Thanks to Grace for the original Links
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.
This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here
So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts;.
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Personality Disorders definition
follow up to pages first thread
Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.
Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)
I have cut and pasted this because I think it is fab.Just incase anyone misses the link.
Hi Thanks for your request,
Unfortunately we are unable to link the two threads.
We recommend that you stop posting on one and report the other and we will
delete it for you.
Let us know which one by reporting
I am going to stop hogging the thread,now.
I have asked for the other thread to be removed, as PM has linked everything so much better than I did.
Hello... I have just found you all. I am not quite sure I belong here, partly because I am still trying to work out what exactly it was that my parents did that pushed me over the edge again and again and how it affects me today, and partly because I took the big step in 2004 to move a thousand miles away from them so I could live my own life. Since then we have slowly established some ground rules and can be civil with each other. We see each other 1-2 times a year for about 2 weeks, and only I make phonecalls unless it's vital.
I started psychotherapy yesterday to attempt to work on the effects my childhood had on me, and I have to say that I am extremely lucky to have ended up with a fantastic lady who managed to jump straight to the point in the first session.
Anyway, like I said, I don't know if I truly do belong here, but I hope you don't mind me hanging around for a while.
Found the new thread. Thanks for setting up a new one
Welcome Ivy - of course you can hang around and sounds like a good fit to me. Sounds like you're much further along the road than I am!
I noticed something I did today which was interesting, though. Without giving details, in a conversation someone made a sarcastic joke which I missed, then laughed at me for not getting the "humour". It's the sort of thing that normally really upsets me, spend ages trying to work out how I managed to humiliate myself and how it was my fault - basically be "oversensitive" because that's how my parents always acted - put me down with the use of "humour" then used a second opportunity to put the knife in when I didn't get it.
Anyway, I didn't do that. I didn't realise until a lot later, but my inner thought was immediately, "eh? That wasn't particularly funny. shrug" and just carried on the conversation. No drama.
Only something small, but major progress for me, I think
Hiya PM I have the power!!!!!!
Hello IVY, sounds like you are in the right place to me. Hang around for as long as you like. Often people posting their own experiences helps others to make sense of something of their own. It all helps.
RD Being laughed at and humiliated is a very regular feature of my reccuring dreams/nightmares, and a reccuring feature of my contact with my "family". I am not oversensitive, I am reacting to being humiliated and laughed at in a perfectly reasonable and normal way. By being upset.
They told me I had a persecution complex.....ah yes, very clever. If I ever complained about the way they treated me or spoke to me, it was because of my complex.
Actually no, it was because they WERE PERSECUTING ME!!!!!
I have a friend who is a psychotherapist, who is keeping an eye out for more stuff on c-ptsd. If he finds anything I will be glad to share here.
WOO WOO new thread !
Hello everyone ! . Hope your all having a good day !
Thisishowifeel ,I also had the "persecution complex"
Funny thing is no-body persecuted me , except my (ex-)mother.
Had nightmare last night , so am a little dosy , might not make sence, please excuse.
Nightmare , horrible , wake up sweating in terror ,palpatations , cant catch my breath,in a panic.... thinking mother has my children.
Have to get up out of bed and check they are all safely tucked up in their beds.
Cant get back to sleep . When i close my eyes i see her.
I cant remember exactly what the dream was about, just that she has my kids .
I have the awful feeling that this is somehow connected to the blanks in my memory , or a result of seeing her recently.
Why is this happening ?.
Thank you for the new thread, Snowdrop, and Piranha for your fantastic intro and links There are some lovely people in this Stately Home! x
Another "persecution complex" sufferer here
I'm having pretty bad ishoos of self-worth and so on just now. I reacted badly to being picked at online, fgs, I thought I could handle that! Have gone back to doing my self-compassion meditations at night, and am slowly picking up my pieces again. Despite knowing how this is all valuable learning for me, I'm going through one of those phases when I wish I were still in denial! Gah. Then I think about my brother and his extraordinarily dysfunctional marriage ... and think, well, maybe this is all worthwhile after all.
Droves, I guess your dreams have probably been triggered by seeing your mother. From your recent posts, it seems that you're working through some of your old stuff and dreams very often do tell you what your unconscious mind is processing. Could it be something as simple as the contrast between your own children's security, compared with how your mother made you feel at that age? Just an idea ... you always "know" when a dream interpretation is the right one Hope you get a better sleep tonight, anyway.
Oh I know all about the persecution complex. To this day I am paranoid about leaving my handbag or my phone somewhere out of sight, because I spent years "imagining" that my mother would go through them, or read my diary, then work little digs about their contents into conversation. But it was all in my mind. It was all in my mind that I could never work hard enough to satisfy my parents. It was all in my mind that people talked about me behind my back because my parents made me stay at home to study or do chores when others were going swimming or out in the sun, or whatever. It was all in my mind that I developed anorexia to regain some sort of control over my own life, because I wasn't really ill, I wasn't really depressed, and my parents didn't really tell me I was a failure at every opportunity.
Thank you garlic . I didnt think about a comparison. I am working through old stuff, perhaps because now i am in a happy safe place in life , so i can do it now. Its more trying to get my head around it all and accept it happened. A last attempt at trying to ditch the anger about it all iykwim?.
Ivy , i understand the fear of the toxic having "something" on you. The digs , the not having personal belongings untouched, its a cruel thing.
Im sorry you had to go through that. I hope you have recovered from it and are in a better place .
Everyone on this thread has been an inspiration to me, a support i never thought for a second i would have. Just wanted to say thank you, for taking the time to read my posts and helping me through this.
You are all wonderful.
Hello, I have dipped in and out of this thread, I'm not a regular poster.
I am pregnant with my second DC and I am finding that I am dreaming about my dead abuser a lot recently and he is flashing into my mind a lot.
For background, I am normally very good at repressing my memories and not thinking about him (my stepfather) and I wondered if anyone else had experienced this? I wondered if it is because being pregnant makes you more vulnerable/protective...
mabey its hormones too reddaisy ?.
congrats on the baby.
I thought it was normal to dream loads when pg , because you worry a lot then.
Are you ok ?
I have been dreaming lots come to think about it, I hadn't really thought about that droves.
He was such a malevolent presence in my life growing up that it is horrible to have him enter my subconsciousness at such a happy time where I am building the family I wish I had had.
I am ok thank you, I wondered if it was about the worry of bringing a child into the world when you know that bad things can and do happen.
Oh dear, I seem to be having a bit of a.. on the verge of tears and feeling sorry for myself day.
Posted on a thread yesterday which reminded me of what twunts my parents can be. It has definitely upset my chakras for the day so to speak.
Hello to everyone <waves like a loon>
Ok so i called my mum. I did the shield vis first and put her on speaker when my husband was with me.
She has moved from being angry that i'm upsetting her and trying to hurt me to not caring and being distant. It was great she was very calm.
I like it a lot better. She didn't believe me and my husband had to tell her. She told me that my dad is not having anything to do with my sisters twins. But when i talked to my sister she said that my dad had seen the twins and called her up to ask how their first night home was. so completly different stories!
My SIL might lose her job and the so might my exbrother so how the might fall!
All this i just wasn't bothered about and i didnt get draw into a convo about any of it. Then she said that they help my exbrother put the cot up (they never help me) i said that was nice of them. Its like no one else exsits except the golden boy.
Then i told them that i would send a photo when the baby was born. Then she said that me and DH would not have money for our birthday but she would send so for our holiday as she had spent the money on my exbrother unborn child. She has not given a gift to my sister's twins and will not be.
I just said bye and hung up.
Later talking to my sister she told me to not take it personally as our perants are like that to all of us.
"But i'm an adult and i dont have to take it anymore".
Then i told her that i would rather have no relationship with them than a damaging, hurtful dysfunctional relationship.
How far a long are you?
I'm pg with my second child too.
I hate morning sickness :-p
<cheer> Good work, Snowdrop, that's brilliant.
"But i'm an adult and i dont have to take it anymore" - this is a great philosophy and I'm stealing it for my many mantras
well done, snowdrop!
I have to completely agree with that philosophy, too. I found it hard, because I was brought up to "respect my elders", which basically means take all the crap they throw at you.
Took me years and thousand miles of distance between us to learn to say no.
I'm pregnant with number 2 as well
My exfamily made my first experiance of having a child hell on earth and i'm sure they helped me get PND.
This time i'm going to do it my way and its going to be fab
I'm still angry that my mum and my sister told me i was a crap mum when i was so low and i can't believe i listen to them
My mum negleted me as a child so i teach myself everything i know. I have never listened to my elders for the simple reason - my opioin should count anyway - no matter how old i am.
My eldest sister is 18 years older than me. I treated them like my sisters and not my elders and i would get shouted at by them because of it but my mum just didn't care so i got away with it. That basic set me up to have my own mind and question everyone and make my own mind up.
I raised myself and i had to grow up quick to make a level playing feild with my sisters.
I never got kissed and tucked in to bed and told i was loved and wanted. I was scared and beaten and told i was wrong and arragont and that i was fat and no one liked me.
My mum and dad did a number on my sisters too and they show the scared and tried to put me down too just to make themselves feel better. They helped the dysfunctional shit but they were better at it as they just messed my head up.
I had a 28 year old asking relationship advice from a 14 year old who didn't even have a boyfriend and who the sister told me i would never get a boyfriend or have sex as i was too fat and boys dont like that. My sister had an eating disorder that she would/has never admitted too.
I just got majorly fucked up by all of them because my mum and dad are fucked up.
Maybe i'm a better pearent than i think as i have had a long time to pratice raising myself
You do not get to choose who your mum and dad are but you do get to chose how to live your own life.
There is nothing wrong with me that i cant put right.
I do think more of myself than they do as i would never treat a child the way they do, so yes i am fucking better than them and i'm going to prove it every day of my life
They can keep their opioins and there misinformed ideas of me as they have never seen the realy me - they made me into what they wanted to see, just to make them feel better.
That is not me. It was never me.
Has anyone do that experise where they write down what they think of themselves and then they as their partners?
Did your image of yourself match that of your partners?
mine didn't and then i realised its not important how others see me only how i see myself as no one can give me self respect, love, confidence or self esteem.
It has to come from me.
Then my son will see and know its ok to believe in your self.
Even if no one else does.
ooh yes snowdropfairy
I said to a friend 'my dd is lovely and cute and clever, well I think so anyway, but I am probably biased' and she said 'you're her mum - if not you, who?'
<sound of penny dropping>
I truly didn't understand that it is right and normal to be biased in your child's favour, to find them the cutest, to take their side, to look out for their interests. These are things that I do do for my dd, but it was the first time I understood that it was wrong that they weren't done for my by my mother. I still felt it was my fault she didn't take my side.
My dh thinks I am incredibly strong, I am still letting go of the idea I am weak
And finally hi to y'all on here, especially thisishowifeel, therealsmithfield, droves, everyone I've forgotten and my favourite beehatch garlicbutter. <stinky>
Sorry for the people I've forgotten, in my defence the medication makes me forgetful... oh and I was nemofish but I ahve namechanged!
Don't tell anyone, tis a secret!
manicpanic you sound quite a bit like me there. I have only recently realised it's ok^ to think my DS is the most amazing little creature on this planet, and that it's ^ok to swoon a little every time I look at him, or he does something.
My husband also things I am strong. I don't know about that....
Do dysfunctional families breed dysfunctional children? or do dysfunctional families just breed children who then seek out other children from dysfunctional families?
Toxic step-grandma died today. Her and her ex-military husband raised one big screwed up family: the eldest daughter ran away from home at the age of 18 (just after my stepdad was born at the end of the fifties), became pregnant (unthinkable for someone from a family like hers), a drug addict, contracted hepatitis, became a suicidal lesbian who then spent the next 50 years in and out of hospital after overdoses, jumping out of windows and to treat the damage she did to her body. Daughter number 2 tried to get away from the family after she had to SN children who kept being belittled by her father, called dumb, retarded and all sorts of other names. Daughter number 3 let her parents run her life until she had enough at the age of 30 and cut all ties. Son number 1 was the golden child, got treated like he could do no wrong, became a protestant reverend and had his own dysfunctional family. My step-dad, the late-comer, stood in the shadow of all his siblings and was mainly forgotten about when he wasn't criticised and belittled. He chose to study architecture instead of law, which his parents wanted him to. He went travelling and made a life for himself, with his parents in the background. They pretty much made him marry a woman he didn't love, they divorced two months later because he was in love with my (recently single) mother. His mother left us messages on the answering machine about how my mother is a witch (literally), and that she has cast an evil spell on her son, that she should let him go or there would be consequences. In 15 years she didn't bother to learn to spell or pronounce our names.
My mum and SD had a son. Grandparents never came to see him to punish my mother and their son's "infidelity".
A few years ago step grandad went rapidly downhill and died. step-grandma refocussed all her energy on SD and moved 5 minutes round the corner. If they wouldn't let her visit for a day, or they didn't go to see her, whe would get herself admitted to hospital - bruises, broken bones and imagined bloodpressure problems.
One christmas day she was upset that they wouldn't let her host christmas dinner (lots of reasons), so she phoned in the evening to get her som to visit. when he got there, she was on the floor, in her own vomit, having taken an overdose. Drugs rehab and a lot of other incidents like that followed.
Her behaviour never improved.
Today, a neighbour found her dead in the communal staircase. I don't know the circumstances yet, but nothing would surprise me.
I feel a strange sense of closure. There is no grief. Some sadness because my little brother doesn't take change very well, but no sense of loss.
I apologise for the essay, but I had to get it off my chest because nobody seems to understand how I feel, but I thought you guys might..
I 'get' it Ivy...I really do.
I also think us kids from dysfunctional families are drawn to others like us, somehow we instinctively 'know' we will be safe with them...my two friends in RL are the same as us. xx
hope you all had a nice weekend x
My plans didn't work out as my son was ill. So we had macd's breakfast at home and then DH went out and got me a hot choclate from costa
I did not send a card and no one called me so its all good
LOL Snowdrop that's scarily similar to my day.
Ds1 had sprained his ankle badly the day before. And dh had a migraine all weekend. So instead of going out, we had a McDonalds dinner
No phone calls which was a relief. Got a one line email thanking me for my gift and card and hoping that I had a nice Mother's Day. Don't know how to reply to it - seems innocuous enough and I guess I should be the adult and respond, but it'll be a minefield to navigate. It seems as though she's going the "pretend nothing happened" route rather than apologising for her behaviour. And given that I'm used to her now never taking responsibility, not totally surprising.
But if I write it in a way to encourage re-opening of communication then I'm bound to get a full "you really hurt me" lecture and it'll be spun round to be being the terrible daughter again.
I've decided not to go completely no contact for the sake of the kids and my own sense of self, but the partial contact thing is definitely a hard thing to master well.
I would just reply - Just doing my Daughterly duty.
And leave it at that.
I think its about getting the boundries sorted out and to do that you need to tell your mum what it ok and what is not. Comunication is the key.
I dont think i can expect my mum to be a mind reader and just do what i want. I would have to tell her but i dont think my mum would listen to me and i would just get hurt from her putting me down, putting my brother before anyone else and just their unfairness to their children.
If you can work on your relationship and the other person is willing to listen and make changes then i think its totaly worth it.
But in some cases its just not possible - like mine
Hello all. Have followed this with interest for a while and can't remember if I have posted as I often mental shout 'Exactly!' and 'Oh yes, I recognise that' even if I don't ever reply. Have had various types of therapy for various things over the years and am going it alone for now - except for my wonderful friends who GET IT.
Anyway, ManicPanic -thank you for highlighting that. Thank you so much. I struggle with this still with my son especially. I am supposed to put him first, not try to take him down a peg or two! Old patterns die very very hard. I will try to focus on this idea of loving them best out of all the children in the world, even though my demons are already kicking off with 'What about all the other children? You need to be fair and even handed and not spoil yours'.
I got my 'pokey' phone call this morning.
I never sent a card yesterday.
Today's phone call was from mother stating she had got the message loud and clear re contact due to us not visiting or sending a card yesterday. She said she thinks I am cross because they moved house.
Actually, I have no land line number for my parents - so a phone call is out and they have no mobile reception inside the house - so never pick up. I have not been given a postal address - so I can't send a card....they never gave either to me before/after they moved and family members have been told NOT to give either their land line number or address to me!
Answer machine got the message, I didn't pick up.
I'm not going to reply to the message as this gives them entrance back into my life, they will want to argue the toss about who said what etc until I cave in and admit the error of my ways.
I think the bit I've bolded is the important bit....by withholding their postal address and telephone number - relatives all told NOT to share these before the move - they effectively cut me off before I sent the text requesting some space?? My instincts tell me this has been done so that if I want contact I have no choice but to actually visit in person....the one thing mother knows I don't want to do!
I am sat here feeling very nervous in case they turn up at my door...am tempted to go out....but my stubborn streak says this is my house and I have every right to stay home if I want!
<PS. I used to be SnowyBriar>
I'm stubborn too, i would not go out. If they do come round just dont answer the door.
You do not have to answer your door or the phone if you dont want too.
Also thats something my mum would do and it just winds me up on your behalf. It relly does my head in when they do things like that.
My mum didn't call me if i break and call her then she would say "So your still alive then". If she was so bothered then she would have called me herself.
Thank for the hugs Snowdrop...xx
Flippin' madness isn't it?! I'm flitting about the house doing a lot of nothing to keep busy at the mo!
Oh and another thing...if she'd got the message so loud and clear...then why bother phoning me??
Also she phoned the land line via a mobile and left a message...why not text my mobile it's cheaper....ah ha, but then there would be record of her nastiness wouldn't there!
At least my relatives now know how it works...she goofed up when she told them all not to give me any phone/address details they finally see a small % of the real mother!
Yey none of it makes sence. This is what my mum would do and i would drive my self crazy for a week or two trying to figuer it out.
Lucky my mum is too old and too busy right now to care about me.
Its the first time in my life i feel very happy about everything.
So you should be happy Snowdrop....huge CONGRATS at your news!
Excuse the delay been catching up!
podsquash I also realised it's OK to think my dd is blummin marvellous even if she is not actually perfect, or even if she <gasp> does something wrong
(Just as I am still worthy of love if I make a mistake or behave in a less perfect manner)
(So I am told!)
Just saying hello to ManicPanic and I hope things are going well with you
manicpanic how can you not love them when they look at you with those eyes and say "mummy!"?
I had such a lovely Mother's Day. My son gave me a wonderful card that he'd obviously spent so much time on, and in church I didn't even stand up for the hymns because I was enjoying cuddling him so much (he is a giant 6 year old). I just kept thinking 'He does love me! He does love me!' We've had a rocky road and I think he feels an understandable ambivalence towards me. I just keep trying to repair, repair, repair without losing all healthy discipline boundaries. Hard job with my parents as poor role models!
hi hariboegg <waves> your mum sounds mean and selfish and horrid. What fun growing up with her. I must dash though, sorry. School run! My story another time...when I can summon the strength.
Hello, I have lurked for a while and admired the strength of those who post on here. I wonder if I could join you too? I have just spoken on the phone with my dad and as usual the conversation ended in an argument with him putting the phone down on me and me feeling like a child. I feel so drained yet guilty as I don't want him in my life
Welcome, Humber - simply come and sit in the circle and we will love bomb you and tell you that you must wear orange at all times.
Nah not really, just pull up a chair
or tie dye beanbag
I think a good measure of whether you should have a relative in your life is if they do more harm than good. And obviously we don't mean poor old Auntie Edie should be cut off as she needs a few bits getting from the Co-Op once a week, I mean people
like my mother who do damage psychologically or emotionally just by being around.
There are lots of new people and namechangers. Could we have an introduction form everyone? I'm getting confused who is who. I have read the whole thread but i'm finding it hard keeping up (not unusaly for me )
My mother has Narcissitic Personality Disorder to a high degree (she is aware of this and told me so when I was a child) andy my stepfather was an alcoholic with a sexual thing for pubescent girls. Because of this delightful set up, my stepdad got away with making my life a fucking misery from age 10, my mother had made it miserable enough before that. I have complex post traumatic stress disorder due to a number of issues caused by my upbringing. I am also an ex anorexic, ex-drug addict (heroin, methadone, crack, sleepers, take yer pick)
I haven't seen either of them for 5 years, tbh they are not really bothered, it has been a relief and has allowed me to start sorting my shit out.
Currently going through my 2nd bout of depression. On anti anxiety meds (yay! ) and having counselling. Will be having psychology input in the next few weeks. I currently have a thread in mental health called 'I was abused, should I call the police?' and I'd appreciate any input from you guys there if you feel able.
I have 1 dd who made me realise my priority was to protect her from my parents
I like to use fancy words so you will all think I am clever
I am fairly outspoken in a nice way
I am a big softy and want to give out lots of <<<hugs>>> especially on this thread
Mumsnet has got me through some very hard times of late and I'm on here to help as much as I can
and read Friday night naughty threads
My mum, sister and my Dad all hung up on me. In fact my Dad never said goodbye on the phone he just hangs up.
I find it so upsetting that they would not listen to me even when i did not shout but i tried to point out the logic of the situation and they just would not listen and then they would hang up in frustration that i did not accept that what they think was right.
Now i just dont talk to them and i feel so much better for it.
Iremember once when i had my first period after my son and it was so havy that i was sitting on a waterproof sheet and change pad every 30 mins. I could not move or i would leak on the floor (sorry TMI). My son feel off the sofa and my husband and MIL took him to AandE to get checked out.
I had my mum screaming down the phone saying i should have gone with them and that she was coming to take my son away from me as i clearly could not look after him. It ending in her hanging up on me. Then i had my sister calling me and telling me that he was my son and i should have gone with them even if i bleed all over the waiting room and that i was a bad mum for not going and that i was pathetic and i did not desever a son as i was an unfit mother. Then she hung up on me.
Um no wounder i had PND and had such a low opioin of my skills and abilities as a mother.
I really hate them for the way they treated me. They still think that they did nothing wrong and that they were trying to help me.
Hi Snowdrop and Manic, thanks for the welcome
(takes deep breath) here's my story
I too grew up with a narcissistic mum. Complete lack of emotional support and constant put downs from her meant that we had a rubbish relationship until the day she died 10 years ago.
Looking back, my dad had severe depression my whole childhood but didn't do anything about it. He has lots of supressed anger and exhibits some frankly bizarre behaviour. In his eyes there is always someone to blame for all of life's shitty events and it was usually me (yes, I am even to blame for cancer you know). We have limited contact but I feel enormous guilt as he is old and on his own.
I have 2 gorgeous kids whom I adore. Having them has made me starkly realise what was missing from my own upbringing and what the parent/child relationship should be like. My self esteem has gone through the floor and I so envy people with seemingly normal loving families. I am having counselling and I hope that it might help me properly believe that I'm not the piece of shit they have always made me believe I am. Reading this thread also helps
OK so i was an accident, my mum was 40 and my dad 43. They had two girls and the golden boy. My mum didn't want me but was too far along to get rid. She had depression when i was born and went back to work when i was 2 months old leaving my 16 and 18 year old sisters to raise me. In the first 5 years i had scolds, brusies, i was put out side on a boat to sleep on the engine so she could not hear me cry, i feel throu the banniser and landing in my pram, i went under the sea when they were on holiday and my Auntie saved me and my brother would scare the hell out of me. I was allowed to wounder the streets til 10pm, i had 9pm bed time at 5 on school nights. I was never taken to the doctors or dentist - i took my self at 10 years old. It was up to me if i wanted to go to school or not and i got myself ready and wealked to school on my own at 6 yo.
I woulod get hit buy my mum, sometimes she would use a stick or pot spoon, my dad and brother would hit me so hard i would get dead legs or arms. I was shouted at and swared at and throw out oif the house to sleep on the wall at night if i was naughty. My brother would tei me up and beat me unless i could make it to the bathroom in time and lock the door.
At 15 the SS got involved and my dad told my brother he would be kick out of the house for good if he hit me again. I also pulled a knife on one of his friends that was kicking me when my mum and dad was on holiday, the friend latter got done for 2 accounts of rape. But it was my fault as i pulled a knife so i was in the wrong!
When i went to uni they ignored me and didnt help and made me pay for my room when i said with them.
When i had my son the first time i called my mum she asked if i was talking to her as she had been calling the hospital but i didn't talk to her, i was a bit busy looking after a newborn.
From before the baby was born they put me down shouted at me and took away my confidence of raising a family.
My brother would not even look at my son and didn't talk to my husband as he is disabled and there fore i'm sick to want to be with him!
I haven't talked to my brother in 10 years and i will not even as he is scum.
I'm on antidepressents for PND after a huge blowup of my whole life and i'm slowly rebuilding me and my life.
I have a 2 yo son and my husband and 2 guiny piggs and i'm 5 weeks pregnent with my second child. I have been none contact with my family for 2 months and it feels great
Oh i'm going to be 29 years old on the 13th April.
Hi again everyone...no visits for me so far...phew!
For Snowdrops benefit...and anyone else who cares to read.
Tbh I dunno where to start...
I had the usual childhood for us it would seem...neglect, beatings, being told I was too sensitive, all 'pops' were them 'only joking', dismissed, undervalued etc basically scapegoated, all their ills were my fault.
My sister was/is the goldenchild, my brother was/is the invisible child.
Had minimum contact with parents for nigh on 20 years...then they moved in next door without any prior knowledge.
I went from a confident happy go lucky person to a quivering anxiety ridden wreck over the space of 4 years.
Father would 'visit' via the back garden without invite or reason up to 4 times a day, at it's worse, it got to the point where I would jump every time there was a loud noise as he would never announce he was here...I was hyper vigilant in fight or flight mode all day every day. I got out of the shower at 2pm once and found him stood in my kitchen reading my bills. Father is also violent, so I spent 4 years in child mode being scared he would beat me should I disagree with him. Mother used to telephone (from next door!) and demand my appearance immediately in their house...didn't matter what I was doing, I had to drop everything and attend her whim or father would be around to ask why I was upsetting my mother.
Mother is a perpetual victim...the world is mean, she is too weak to cope, so needs everyone to 'look after' her. Her needs must be placed before every and anyone else's. She is not weak she is a covery manipulator and will have almighty tantrums should you NOT put her needs first. She also feeds my father's temper.
My sister is a clone of my mother...but also has no morals/ethics beyond her own bank account/ego.
My brother is a 40+ y/o man child, still dependant on my parents for his opinions...and scared of the wider world.
So, here I am trying to lose the 'hold' of them all and return to the person I was 4 years ago before I got enmeshed again in the madness that can be called 'my family'.
Forgot to say...been no contact with parents since just before xmas.
God they sound completely toxic, not just to say completely and utterly barking mad.
I take it as read your parents are still living next door (shudders).
In an nutshell both my ILs and BIL are toxic. They'd make a good case study for a clinical pysch and I would dearly love to get the them assessed. BIL is a narcissist and cut us off thankfully some years ago after my DH refused to help him with an outrageous request BIL put to him. How my DH who is the salt of the earth managed to survive them I do not know; I know that he left home as soon as he was able to do so.
My relationship with my parents these days is very much a superficial one. I do not buy either of them cards for either mothers or fathers day (its actually a bit easier for me as my mum does not like mothers day anyway).
I was trusted, well left actually, by my parents to get on with it from the time I was 14. Didn't realise it at the time but see it all too clearly now. My brother who I get on well with even now was and is treated differently by them (my mother sees it as her mission in life to clean house for him as he lives on his own). My brother can say jump to my mother and my mother will reply, "how high?".
Sorry Attila in my rush of explaining I forgot to say...
I am lucky...they moved house just before xmas, about a 40 min drive away, mother didn't like living in a house like ours - she felt that as they were now retired (have been for roughly 4 years hence them landing on my doorstep!) they should have something grander than us to show for all their hard work and the inconvenience of neighbours was just too much to bear.
They bought a very large, multi bedroomed detached house in the countryside - just for the two of them!
As the dutiful daughter I was/am still expected to accommodate their whims though just as if they were still next door.
Mother even told me the DC's were not having any xmas presents unless we went out on xmas day to collect them. She needs to show me her new house, money is everything to them and ego's must be fed. The withdrawal of xmas presents was done so I had to visit...this is why I still have no contact details for them...if I want contact at all I have to present my request for an address and phone number in person. I won't do it.
I managed to 'play the game' until the day they left...then went no contact as soon as me, my DH and DC's were physically able to be separate.
None of them have contact with my DC's.
During the moving process there were a lot of will we/ won't we move guff....this stress lead to my missing a period completely and all my body hair fell out!
To say I am glad to be rid of them all is an understatement.
My mother is cluster B. I don't know which particular PD she has, her GP said borderline, but that was a long time ago, and I had never heard of anything like it before.
My father just hid, usually behind a book. He simply didn't interact with us at all. My other was a serial adulterer. It was a small village. Everyone must have known. It must have been very difficult for him. He was pretty self absorbed though too, and his mother, my grandma, was an absolute nutjob, albeit a very charismatic and intelligent one. She must have been one of the first women to go to university. Education played a ludicrously important role in her life and her four children were serial over-achievers, doctors, judges and the like, and ludicrously competitive with one another, and she encouraged this. I supect that she may have had a PD too. Grandad hid too. He watched the motor racing.
My "mother" lost her dad early. There are markers for alcoholism, sexual abuse and extreme religion there. Missionaries and the like.
And so they met and married VERY quickly and had golden girl, who looks like "mother" had her hair like "mother", was dressed like "mother" and was "mother's" confidante. She was party to, from a very young age, my "mothers sexual dalliances, and got to hear ALL about it, and was asked for advice. At the age of 8 or 9.
I didn't realise that my sister was being sexually abused, all I knew was that I was excluded from the secret whispering that was happening behind the bathroom door.
There was only one photo of me as a baby. "mother" said I looked demonic. She thinks I have ESP. She thinks I am evil. She has said, in writing, that I need to "be stopped" and "when is someone going to take thisis and her problems seriously and put a stop to the damage she is causing".
Her best quote however. "she'll fight to the last drop of blood for those kids". Silly cow thought this was a bad thing!!!!!!!!!!! It had to be explained that no, that's normal!!
She has actively attempted to wreck my career, my marriage, she has tried to have my children removed, countless times, complained to SS, she complained to MHS when they said there was nothing wrong with me. I suspect that she still is actively trying to wreck my life, but then I would, because according to her, I have a persecution complex.
I'll stop there. Sorry.
Oh and she slept with my first husband. Where's Jeremy Kyle when you need him.
Carry on thisis if you need....sometimes it's good to get it all out.
Funny...religion figured big in my familys history too.
I read your post about your mother (viewed on page one) with interest. Sorry I didn't have time to respond in the moment-then my thoughts were swept away by
life my three year old and zing another week has gone by. (So much for excuses [bulsh] but I don't like the feeling of writing with invisible ink either, thus my feeble attempt at an apology.)
It is so heart stabbing to endure being treated that way.
Is it like she is baiting you to exist then blanks you for another superiority dig at your expense by treating you as if you were invisible?
I have thought of supplying a cardboard cutout of myself in such circumstances...or at least act like one. The dynamic is all about them and not you or me or anyone else on this thread. It is really hard to take. So I suggest beginning an emotional disconnect-that is not to say act like the cardboard cutout; but perhaps emotionally and intellectually Cardboard Cutout has a point . Don't give them any more brain space.
With all the Mother's Day discussion (mine isn't until May/US) I was thinking these ole bats probably figure if they can't shit on their dauthters, then who the hell can they shit on? Just pathetic.
Someone once said that the worst kind of bad man is the religious bad man, I think that person was correct.
Religion also hung big on my FILs side too and the dysfunction within his family is generational as well.
Cluster B Personality Disorders are evidenced by dramatic, erratic behaviors and include Histrionic, Narcissistic, Antisocial and Borderline Personality Disorders.
I've just been back and read your post...from my completely amateur perspective it seems as if your mother is competing with you??
This happened with my mother a lot ... she couldn't stand my father giving me any positive attention at all. It's as if I was a love rival rather than her DD.
I know this sounds odd but I hope you 'get' what I mean...does this sound possible??
Hariborgg Could you tell us some more please?
I think the texting your xhundand was bad. What was she trying to achieve? How did you find out? Did you confront her?
Do you have any siblings?
Did you tell her she has no legal right to your son and its up to you if he has a relationship with her or not?
Has she always with held? Even when you were a child/teenager?
Have you used the link to see if she has a Narc personality?
When she copies you have you said anything to her?
Sorry lots of questions but there was a lot in your first post and i just want to brake it down. All of it is important and its good to write it down.
It helped me writing it all down to have a clear thinking path and to see what issuses i wanted to work on. My first set of counciling was spent going throught all my relationships and who i felt about everyone else. I didn't even get to me! But once i opened up and started looking at what was upsetting me i felt better and found a path throu the maze back to me.
My sister was the one who copied me re decor etc, she also made a move on my DH in my presence, whilst living with me.
I gave her a place to live when she was supposedly in dire need - she wasn't in any need at all, just wanted 'out' of a relationship and told some huge lies to manipulate me into rescuing her.
To this day I believe her ideal goal was for something to happen to me, so she would step right into my life where I left off.
I don't have contact with her now.
I found keeping a sort of blog - a memory diary if you will, a useful way of balancing out what really happened - this allowed me to then make necessary decisions in a more calm way.
I think my sister just wants what I've got (huge sense of entitlement) and due to our (mine and hers) crappy upbringing she has no respect for others boundaries, unfortunately this makes her a risk to my chosen family's (me, DH and DC's) stability. So for self preservation she had to be put at a distance.
Tbh the more I read about this stuff...I don't think people/families like ours regarding your mother and my sister are that unusual.
I gave up trying to unravel my lot a long time ago...their behaviour is so odd that for me it doesn't seem to matter how much I dwell on it, none of it will ever make any sense.
They behave how they behave...all I can do is prevent me and mine from being hurt by it all.
I understand how you feel about paying a price for your family's 'help', all I can say is for me the price was always too high.
Hopefully your counselling should help you work out where your personal boundaries lay and how much you can deal with at one time, maybe you can afford to pay the price - maybe not - only you can work out what's right for you.
Good luck for tomorrow. xx
I think you have too much to sort throught all at once. The councilling will help you fouces on whats important right now.
I'm not a perfersional but i would say get you and your son in to a routine, in your own place. I understand that now you are rethinking your life because what you do with it is up to you. You can do what you want, go where you want to. There is a lot of freedom in the knowldge that you are an adult and can do what you want. But the fact that you are not getting the love and support from your mum and dad is so soul destroying.
I had a huge bust up with my husband and i had PND, a 16 month old, no friends, no family support, i was living in a new area, i didn't know how to take care of myself and the responsibility of looking after my little one was too much. I wanted to kill myself, i wanted to throw myself under a train. I didn't i got help but from the mental health team, my health visitir, my doctor and adult soical services. I worked hard to put my life back together but i will never forget how i felt on that day.
The huge hole where my families support and love should be - i was truly on my own and its fucking scary. I couldn't call my family for fear of being up down or hurt more. I just couldn't be.
In the end i went to say with my mum for a week and told that i could not live there even thou they had room. They would have seen me in a refusge or on the street. They know i was very low and they still had a go at me but my mum and my sister. My HV was so worried about me that she arranged for the HV by my mum and dad to come out and see me.But my family did not help my how i wanted or needed them too. I had 4 days of stay with them and that was them helping there daughter. Job done.
The lack of support and understanding and love is horrific to me.
Now i have sorted the things that i needed to make me feel safe and scure i can look at what is wrong with them and in the end distancing myself from them was the best thing to do for me.
But everyday i hurt because i didn't get the mum and dad i wanted.
It helps to write it down and then in a few weeks moths read it back and review it. You will be suprised at how far you will go to self healing.
Sorry i think i rambbled a lot
I think that the boundary thing is incredibly common.
I think that my "mother" and goldensister, are actually insanely jealous of me and my life, because despite everything I have done ok. My kids are wonderful, my career is ok. I am what they believe they should be, and they absolutely hate and detest me for it.
Hence my mother sleeping with my first h.
One thing that I've learned is that my instincts were ALWAYS bang on. The things I had a feeling they were doing, they were. There are a million examples. I now KNOW, that "mother" was the force behind the endless custody battles and court appearances, which of course inculded wicked character assassinations, every time. I knew it wasn't exh, he couldn't care less, but was very easily manipulated by her
I know that she will continue to try to destroy me. I believe that a smear campaign about me in my work was probably started by them. I know that a prolonged and personal attack on me on a workplace forum, was probably her. I have absolute proof that she was the one responsible for the near destruction of my current marriage. She didn't manage that, but it was perilious.
I can't see why she would stop now, and I am terrified of them.
Thisishowifeel - that is so bad.
I think i would move and not give them my new address and move jobs.
I would completly disapper if i know my mum was out to destroy me. I would also get a restaining order.
I would want noting to do with her after she sleeped with my xhusband.
When i lose my temper i can be very nasty and even violent (as i was shown no other way) I would have let rip and told her she was too old to be me. And how did she like my left overs. I think i would have made her fear me but then i would have been as back as her
Its def about walking away and being the better person, thats what i have to learn.
To not be like my family. Finding a better way.
My mother phoned today. Instantly felt a pit of fear in my stomach as soon as the caller ID came up. She was perfectly polite though - too nice, it's got me on edge.
She's clearly brushed everything under the carpet. She will not apologise or ever admit that she's anything other than perfect. Even though logically I know this niceness is part of the cycle ("see how perfectly reasonable I can be, it's YOU who is unhinged") I'm feeling very unhinged and powerless.
Fortunately though, she's going away for a month so I'll have some breathing space before I have to speak to her again.
Sorry, snowdrop, I know you want a summary of everything. I just don't have the emotional strength to write it all out at length today - I just couldn't bear it to be out there and anyone to say see you are imagining it all, you don't know how lucky you are.
RD - Its ok ((((hug))))
Also no one on this thread would ever say that to you.
This thread is very supportive and it is a safe place to say what you want
ManicPanic, here is a link to a thread about a lady that did call the police about her abusive father. Hth.
Sorry, I have not read your other thread yet.
I get the seizure from my sister on the phone. But that is rare since I don't do things her way (anymore) she won't have much to do with me.
I name changed; I used to be TooManyStuffedBears.
My mother was bipolar (back then, called manic depressive) and an alcoholic. She was either on booze or vallium. My oldest sister was adopted and had the common issues associated with abandonment. She was scapegoat child, abused physically. Middle sister was the golden child; got all of mother's attention/nurturing (that was available anyway). I am the youngest, the invisible child. I was a 'tom-boy' but really just an athlete before it was ok for girls to be athletes. I was rediculed, dismissed, degraded, ignored. Shamed into silence.
I have a good part of the list of traits for ACOA. Communication is difficult because I have the tendency to over process thoughts for the possible ways that I'll be misunderstood thus rediculed, etc. My brain scatters in 8 different directions and I find it hard to trust myself in choosing which response is the right one, or the one that is expected to be heard, iykwim. Being shamed into silence removed years of developing skills.
Dad was a good sort. Workaholic in the 60's/70's to provide for the family and probably to avoid mother. He lost his hearing in WWII so there wasn't much conversation with him. He could hear with a powerful amp type hearing aid and lip read so we could talk but spontaneous conversation just didn't happen. He was quiet; more quiet for me, but it was safe for me to be with him and I was his helper-in the workshop/farm/yard etc. But he was in denial about mother's mental health issues; oldest sister had to take her to the hospital at one point.
Mother died when I was 18 (1980) (she was 54); Dad died in 1998, I am now 49.
I studied architecture in college and graduated with honors but now realize that so much time in the studio was effectively just hiding. Still no social skills-like how to deal with office politics. I was toast in the professional setting. Being a sahm was a very easy choice. Hiding out with the dc. I have two teens-18 and 16 and our surprise angel is 3. My dh is very responsible and nice but he isn't so chatty and works long hours. His dad is very chauvanstic and dh sometimes crosses the line with degradations, but I am able to call him on it in the moment and he apologizes.
My biggest problem (besides my freight train of issues) is my middle sister who shows NPD traits (not for me to diagnose not even with decades and decades of exposure) along with codependency habits. She is single/no dc/ never had a serious relationship. She transferred herself into the matriarch role after mother died and exponentially so after father died. I was sister's golden child and oldest sister was the black sheep. She had had other targets for her supply, but then slowly driped it on to me and I got to the point where enough was enough. I set severe boundaries when pregnant and have not seen her since Christmas '07 (contact gifts for bd/xmas - and the required properly written thank you notes). She has not seen my dd2 as she was so bitchy about my pregnancy that I just didn't want to see her when I gave birth or afterwards.
Sorry for the essay. No physical abuse. For years I believed I had a normal childhood...myth. The emotional abuse was negligence, lack of nurturing, no affirmations, never advocate on my behalf. No love from mother.
I have just slit my wrist but the knife was too blunt i just have scratches. Then i took a handful of paraetol but i dont think we have enough in to kill myself.
I'm so useless i cant even kill myself
I just sat here in floods of tears wishing it was easier to just die.
Rant over - thanks for listening
I was late getting my pills from doctor and only had half the dose as i have ran out.
I went shopping and found out i have no money, my son is scraming at me, my husband has told his mum who i hate that we have no money and i'm getting cramping pains and think i'm losing the baby that no one else but me wants.
I think i should get get rid of the baby as i'm not a good mum as i cant even put food on the table as i cant work and my husband only got paid half wages due to have two weeks off ill.
I can cope and just want to die right now.
I think i have lost the baby.
I will be ok
My husband thinks i'm just on a down momment.
I dont think i should have a baby if i'm like this.
Hi Snowdropfairy are you still online? I am a thread newbie but here if you need someone to listen
I hate that my MIL knows our business and that she had to call us to tell us she knows that FIL give us money and that she is worried and to find out why we needed the money.
I'm angry that my husband told her. I hate other people being in our relationship and i just want to tell her to fuck off <childish emicon>
Husband made me spite out all tablets and counted them.
He has locked all knifes and tablets away. He is on siacide watch again.
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