MN on Oliver James - on Woman's Hour now

[Isaidheyhoney]

Jenni Murray has just announced it - have a listen...

[Isaidheyhoney]

Have to listen to a chickpea soup recipe first!

[Isaidheyhoney]

God, Jenni Murray is such a bully though, isn't she? I wouldn't have wanted to be one of her sons.

[sethstarkaddersmum]

He just said toddlers should have one-on-one care all the time! On what planet Oliver? Fruitloop!

[Vulgar]

He is really insufferable isn't he?

and he wouldn't shut up.

so rude and arrogant.

[legalalien]

Just caught the tail end of this. I agree with ISHH - I thought the interviewer's attitude was unnecessarily aggressive - in fact neither she nor Justine seemed to be actually listening to what was being said (rather, responding to things that they knew he had written and had thought about in advance). I don't think that gave a very good impression. Constantly interrupting him to ask how much time he had actually spent looking after toddlers was also unhelpful.

FWIW I don't particularly agree with him (am off to read the original material) but v disappointed in the way the interview was conducted.

[Vulgar]

Yes but I think you have to be very forceful when in discussion with him. Otherwise he just goes on and on with his ideas that women are doing it all wrong.

[sethstarkaddersmum]

I missed the beginning and it's not on IPlayer yet - anyone know if it will pop up there later or do some editions of the programme never get on?

[legalalien]

but isn't the point of an interview to hear what the person has to say (didn't hear the intro so it could have been billed as a debate on the issue of childcare, in which case maybe not a valid comment). I don't know - just think that the combination of a female interviewer and Justine in opposition sounded - a bit "shrill" and defensive. just my impression as a casual listener....

[Vulgar]

But I think we are all curious how he puts his theories into practice with his own children.

[sfxmum]

I think it all got a bit too shouty
there should have been time to put specific points across and debate them
and I did think JM should have just moderated rather than start shouting

if I had not been familiar with the arguments would not really have been informed from this

shame really

[sethstarkaddersmum]

hmm, well I've listened from the beginning now, and I think if JM hadn't got a bit shouty Oliver James would never have stopped talking and Justine wouldn't have been allowed to say anything at all.
Funny how he keeps saying 'I'm not blaming mothers, I'm not blaming mothers' like a broken record, while blaming mothers. It's like when people go 'I'm not being horrible or anything but....' and go on to say something bitchy.

[Isaidheyhoney]

I don't think he is blaming mothers - it's been known for ages that group care for very young children isn't ideal, but that childminders are fine as long as they can give some individual attention, which the regs ensure anyway because they can't have rooms full of babies like in Victorian times.

I heart Oliver James anyway - he's going to look after me when I get Alzheimers - or someone who's got his book on it is going to. I'm not being dumped on a ward in group care!

[Meglet]

My DC's don't get one on one care at home as have too much to do, I am practising 1970's benign neglect or else I will lose the plot. They get far more attention at nursery, no one shouts or sticks cbeebies on either.

I used to like oliver james but he has either visited some crappy nurserys or seen some rare supermums in action.

[EdgarAllenPoll]

erm - don't people have..more than one child?? often?

maybe will get this from listen again after work...

JM is never shrill. pushy sometimes.

[sethstarkaddersmum]

I think I have three. Only I get a bit distracted with housework, Mumsnet etc and sometimes I lose count. It often feels like more than 3. See that would never happen at nursery - they always know exactly how many children they have.

[EdgarAllenPoll]

oh my God. I have listened to it now -

Oliver James, for example..is a twat...

particularly odious statements -

'women these days are more like bridget Jones than mothers'

'My mother was a psycholoanalyst who read Dr Spock..so she knew what to do in theory but didn't in practice (with ref to leaving him at end of garden in pram)'

she had 5 kids under 4 at once (so, he blames his own mum for all his ills, and is out to widen the scope of that blame to other women)

the implication obv being that Dr Spock was 'right' with his freudian - influenced twaddle. I think he just thinks men should tell women how to do everything.

it is a ten minute segment - he talked for damn near 3 mns straight and then refused to yield for Jenni Murray to insert sensible comment from Justine. And then talked over her again

and he cortisol thing is so debateable - surely kids rnning about in a nursery will have more corisol than kids slobing at home with mummy in front of Cbeebies whilst mummy is on Mumsnet?

and just explain to me why 'training tricks' aren't useful? I certainly find them useful, for dogs and babies alike. humans are animals, only a fool denies it.

as for unerstanding toddlers - i do understand my tddler. I understand when she grabs toys, i is because she wants the toy, and she wans he toy bcause someone else has it - and only repeatedy not bing allowed to g away with it will dissuade her from that behaviour! She hits her brother because he is smaller than her and annoying...(in her eyes) - same applies. She throws things because it is fun....all these behaviours i understand perfectly - doing something about it means some kind of training method though! which may be of my own devising, or suggested by someone else...manuals aren't to be taken as gospel, but to be more..guidelines...to be picked from at will.

how much time he's spent caring for his kids is a very moot point - because he obviously hasn't ever been the main carer and seen the way a parents actions can shape a toddlers bhaviour.

Justine, I am a bit proud of you for not hitting him. Pour yourself a large Gin, and thank god you are not a judgemental sadcase with an axe to grind like that man!

[EdgarAllenPoll]

to anyone else who wants to get as angry as i just did -

here is listen again, go to 35 mins i think..

[PrincessFiorimonde]

I heard it this morning and thought James was very shouty and interrupting ('Let me finish! Let me finish!'). To be fair, there were some difficult points to debate in such a short segment. But he didn't come across at all well. He also said some odd things for someone who claims he isn't attacking mothers.

Edgar, the Bridget Jones comment early on did make me go . And I'm not even a mother.

[domesticslattern]

Oh dear.

Oliver James comes across as a nice pleasant man keen to listen to others and hear what mothers have to say. He is never remotely condescending towards our lovely Justine. What a trooper.

[Nodaftnickname]

I was scandalised by the way Oliver James was bullied on Woman's Hour, accused of "bamboozling" because his argument - which he was not allowed to develop - did not happen to fit an editorial line.

This subject is too important to be brushed aside by an aggressive presenter abusing her position. Murray showed massive ignorance today. If - IF - she wants to appear more credible to her listeners, many of whom are much better informed than she is, one book she might start with is Jean Liedloff''s "The Continuum Concept" on Attachment Parenting.

And all this defensiveness here about attacking women for packing their kids off to care! Babies/toddlers NEED contact with someone close (it can be a dad, grandparent etc) --but they need it. Many traditional societies understand this. Some of us may feel it's inconvenient and want kids off our hands, but if you don't want to love 'em and be with 'em don't have 'em! The result of packing them off too early into often deeply mediocre and inappropriate 'care' will not be happy balanced children, or, later, happy balanced adults, citizens and themselves parents...

Woman's Hour needs to broaden its range of contributors -- trotting out MumsNet people like Renaissance Woman as instant experts on any aspect of education or social policy is inadequate, and journalistically lazy. The programme needs to rise about the level of chit-chat. Oliver James needed someone of his calibre, not someone who at her own admission has "read some blogs".

And how about some contributors to this site being a less less ready to dismiss Oliver James as a 'twat'? It is highly offensive -- and shallow. James has been shockingly misrepresented in the Press. Surprise surprise..

Jenni Murray should be ashamed of herself for today's performance. Regular listeners know she can't stand anyone who refuses to bend to her will. But she might try, before she retires, to end her career with some less boorish behaviour. And those who are so ready to trash Oliver James might try actually reading him first. You'll find an intensely sincere, caring, modest man who deserves better than Jenni Murray's crude prejudices and the cheap mockery some people have dished out here.

M Buckley

[SpeedyGonzalez]

Theh last time OJ was on Woman's Hour it was to talk about ADHD. He listened to a woman talking about her own experience of parenting a boy with ADHD, then went on to say that children get ADHD because their parents don't love them enough.



He said this in front of the mother of a child with ADHD. And this man is a psychologist? Has he heard of the word sensitivity? Or just plain common sense? Rightly so, Jane Garvey gave him a verbal slap.

I've read two of his books and also quizzed him in person about one of the books (he didn't listen for long enough to properly understand my question - quelle surprise).

One thing that made me laugh out loud in his book 'Affluenza' was where he kept on hammering home the point that British women have a low image of their own attractiveness, and how wrong that was. All well and good. But he then went on (in the space of about four pages) to say TEN TIMES that he thinks Russian women are far more gorgeous than any other women on the face of the planet. Flying the flag for British women's self-esteem, huh, OJ?

To be fair, he does sometimes have worthwhile things to say, but he is also a self-aggrandising pillock with, it would seem, zero relational skills.