Which double? P&t or b dual?

[sillyily]

Hello, I have dc2 due in April, when ds1 will be 29months. I'm after a single to double pram that can have baby facing me (preferably in bassinet or carseat) and ds1 can look out easily. I also really need plenty of basket space! Can't be too big either as I'm a big fan of boutiques and cafes, and obviously not too flimsy. I'm more inclined to go with phil and teds (explorer I think?) but there doesn't seem to be any basket space with cocoon in. Is this the same with the b dual? Also, still feeling a bit dodgy about 'stacking the kids up'... but dont see any way of having a double without it being side by side which i really dont want.... Someone convince me its not like that!! Any help much appreciated!

[Tiggywunkle]

Theres no question for me - the B-Dual is better.
Does this help at all?. I know it is the Verve, but P&Ts are generally similar in design.

The B-Dual takes full advantage of the upwards space of the pushchair footrprint so this gives the lower child much more space than in a P&T's where much of the footprint is taken up by the larger upper seat. The B-Dual in reality is slightly shorter than the Verve.

The B-Dual gives you a great lie flat baby space underneath where the baby isn't just peeking out (as a friend put it today) at a small square space of sky through a hole between the seats. The toddler will have lots of leg room should they go underneath. You can have a car seat in either position, or a soft carrycot in either position (although the baby is really better underneath) and it may even be possible to have the top child parent facing.

I could barely get my daughter into the lower seat of the Verve (although I know other P&Ts have a little more footspace) let alone even a small handbag or shopping!!
But yet www.bestbuggy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Britax-B-Dual-Loaded-with-2-Baskets-7-bags-of-Shopping.jpg this was the B-Dual fully loaded with a weeks shopping and here are the bags to prove it!

I am sure you can take the Verve as a starting point to explore the measurements of the other P&Ts but I believe most are larger.
HTH

[sillyily]

Ahh you are amazing!! Thank you for that! One quick question - they say the b-dual is suitable from birth, but do you know if its actually comfy for baby? And does it seem weird them being that close to the ground? Can you get a p&t cocoon equivalent for the b dual? Seems a bit cozier than the open seat.. I think I've found my pram!!! finally! you are a lifesaver! Made my night

[OhSweetCheezus]

Have you looked at the Baby Jogger City Select? It's amazing! Not the lightest buggy, but folds up tiny, same footprint as a P&T and super comfy for children of different ages. DD was 2.5 when DS was born and we bought this to replace her single Mutsy. She's now a tall 4yo, he's a tall 18mo, and they both still love to ride in it! Also helpful is the amazing versatility - use as a single or double, bassinet and or carseat, there are 16 different possible seating configurations! And the shopping basket is HUGE! I can't stop raving about it...

Good luck! :)

[OhSweetCheezus]

www.bestbuggy.co.uk/category/tandem-pushchairs/baby-jogger-city-select/

for a look< hope the link works, I'm rubbish at them!

[ItsMyLastOne]

I hated the city select, discounted it due to how heavy it is to push and lift up kerbs. Tiggy had one and it got to be too heavy for her when her DS was about 10 months I think. (sillyily sorry if I'm repeating myself, I think I said all this on the pregnancy board too! ).

The B Dual does have an optional carrycot which is really useful for the bottom seat. It's longer than the seat and sticks into the basket. That means it does take up room in the basket, but also allows your baby to lie completely flat and supported in the bottom seat for longer. If you remove it, their legs hand off the seat, which is fine when they're a few months but not when they're really tiny.

Purple is £50 at kiddicare ATM

Neon black £64 here

HTH

[ItsMyLastOne]

I meant soft carrycot. Obviously there's also the hard carrycot, but it might annoy your DS1.

[Tiggywunkle]

Yes you need the soft carrycot for the lower seat innate B- Dual to keep the babies feet up. It lasts ages though. Someone said the footmuff was working well for them though. I found it fine having my children innthe lower seat of the B-Dual. In spring / summer you get a great view of the child though the mesh in the hood. The only downside of the B-Dual is that older toddlers don't sit quite right in the seat. Putting the leg rest up to level helps this though.

The City Select is fantastic for as long ad you can push it. Ours was fab until the children reached a certain weight and out of the blue it made my arms hurt so much that I was forced to stop using it. Great when the children are small on any terrain but it was a slightly (and I mean slightly) cambered pavement (that we did nearly every day for months) that caused my issues. The pushchair was too heavy to keep in line. If i had simply done shopping malls or totally flat pavements then I have no doubt it would last longer. I never believed people who said it hurt them to push until it happened with me. Also realistically most of the configurations on the City Select are problematic ie seats won't recline or children can kick the other (which happened with us) and I was left with seating positions that simply didn't work. The fold is great though but equally it's refreshing to be able to fold the B-Dual with both seats on. Yes you can fold the BJCS with both seats on but one would quickly get spoilt doing so. I used to be the BJCS biggest fan and even wrote a website about how good it was, but not now. I have had to eat my words. The B-Dual has almost as many combinations.

[sillyily]

yeah I was put off the bjcs after all the reviews saying it was tricky to manouvre with two kids in. I think i'm going to go for the b-dual - probably second hand chassis then get new soft carrycot and footmuffs for it to keep costs down. Mothercare had it for £225 when I looked last night... £400 odd today! Thank you all for your help, as always! x

[ItsMyLastOne]

£225??? That would have been very very cheap!

Annoyingly, there were some amazing deals just a few weeks ago but they've all gone up in price. I'd snap up any deal you find!

I can imagine the footmuff is good for a newborn too as it's very structured compared to most footmuffs. The benefit of having the soft carrycot is that it has handle so you can lift your baby out if they're sleeping.

[Harmims]

I would recommend a Sit n Stand Joovy.

They are from the US, can get them from Ebay cheaply.

I have 2 - one at home and one at GP's. THey are fab. Proper seat for little one, jump seat / buggy board for elder one. Not much larger than a standard single.

I DETEST P&T. They are rubbish! If you put the baby on top, then your toddler is cramped (and my 3YO is enormous!) but if you put the smaller baby in the bottom, the thing is utterly unstable if the elder one wants to walk. I hated mine.

[sillyily]

I know, i assumed they were all around that price tbh otherwise I would've got it then... that was probably for one seat mind. Can you get stands for the carrycot do you know?

[sillyily]

I was looking at those Harmims, but my lo still occasionally sleeps through the day and I'd rather just strap him in and go! Theres more room with b dual than p&t isnt there? Cos i don't like how cramped the underneath child looks in p&t

[sillyily]

one last question - can a standard buggy board fit the b dual ok?

[Tiggywunkle]

I don't know if the Briax carrycot is suitable for overnight sleeping. Also the carrycot on top doesn't leave much room for the toddler. Look at the last photo here. I think this mum later bought the soft carrycot and put the baby on the bottom.
A buggy board probably fits in single mode but I would doubt it will in double mode. The Lascal website might be able to help you further.
There's much much more room in the lower seat of the B-Dual. If you look at the 8th picture up from the bottom of that photoset, you can see there's tons of room for the child's legs even a large handbag in there. The basket is huge.

[Harmims]

AH, yes, that is a consideration Silly - My 3YO has the energy of a rhino and loves walking, but hates hills, so this is a great buggy for us.

FWIW, though, the second seat (the jump seat) can be fitted out so that it is a standard seat. The second one I bought came with that 'extra' and also a sunshade so it looks like a standard double buggy with that. I never use it, as DS1 likes to walk and just jump on when we hit a hill. And it can take a britax car seat.

I do love it, though pushing it + the two kids up hills isn't exactly my idea of fun!!!

[ItsMyLastOne]

If you want to use a hard carrycot for daytime sleeping, I'd imagine you can use a normal moses basket stand. But I'd personally use the soft carrycot due to how tight it is for the toddler in the bottom seat.

See here for info on buggy board. The Lascal Maxi fits, but it's not clear whether it will work with the second seat attached. If it fits with it attached, you can just tilt the second seat up how you do it when you're folding it. If you're using a soft carrycot, you can then just put it on the top seat and put it parent facing.

[sillyily]

So, the soft carry cot is the basically the cocoon bit? and the hard carry cot is the bassinet type bit? Sorry if i sound a bit dull

[Tiggywunkle]

You have five newborn options with the B-Dual.
You can either put them straight onto either seat - upper or lower with a blanket or few (or not as the case may be!) but the issue with this is really when the baby gets a bit older ie 3+ months and their legs hang off the end. Parents generally feel they need support at that point;

Or you can use a soft cot - Britax do a soft carrycot, but equally other soft carrycots may well work. The advantage of the Britax one seems to be that its quite long and if you look carefully at photos of the lower seat in particular, the idea of the soft cot is to keep the legs straight. Its a while since I saw one but I think the base is stiffer than a standard footmuff, although using a stiffer footmuff is also an option;

Or you can use a car seat - which isn't advised for time periods longer than 2 hours;

Or you can use the Britax lie flat carrycot / car seat - the Safe Sleeper;

Or Britax have a carrycot as well.

These are all possibilities but This may well help you

[sillyily]

I was thinking soft cot... my OH thinks carrycot.... which lasts longer do you think?

[Tiggywunkle]

I think the soft cot gives you the option of where you place the baby. The soft cot will go in both positions whereas the hard carrycot will not. Having seen the hard carrycot in the photos, I personally would not compromise my toddler. The baby in the lower seat looks really snuggly in a soft cot and that is what I would do personally. The soft cots aren't floppy like say a Phil&Teds cocoon - they do have a shape / semi rigidity / harder base to them. You could always order both and have a look at them in situ if you can't get to try them in a shop - and then return the one you dont want.

[HypatiaTheProcrastinator]

They'd probably last as long as eachother, but the soft carrycot in the bottom seat is a much more user friendly position. Otherwise you will have the hard carrycot on the top very close to the older child on the bottom. The top seat's bigger so would be the natural choice for the older child anyway. And if you wanted to, with the soft carrycot on the bottom, you could have the top seat facing you. This is feasible until the youngest is about 10-12 months, but also when the youngest is asleep in the bottom seat past that stage.

[sillyily]

pram arrived today
my 2yo tried out, and waaayy preferred being underneath (in the 'den') than on top. Will soft carrycot fit on top facing me, with dc1 on bottom? configurations don't show this...

[Tiggywunkle]

There's no reason why you can't have the top seat parent acing with the soft cot in, it's just how much room your toddler has that could be an issue. [[http://www.bestbuggy.co.uk/2012/01/britax-b-dual-review-and-photos-by-sarah/ Some of these photos show a baby in a cosy toes (not much difference I suspect in length) with a toddler underneath. You can only try and see how you feel.
My DD loves the lower seat in all our pushchairs. I am sure she thinks it's a den or somewhere to hide / spy on the world from.
I hope you are happy with it.

[sillyily]

Ahh great thank you! Yes soooo happy with it! I got it brand new on ebay for £142 as well which makes it a million times nicer!! Want to take it for a walk now! Should probably wait til tomorrow...