wwyd? Survey says we are overpaying a little for house - so we renegotiate? isn't that just gazundering?

[oranges]

Not sure what to do really - we sold our place fast to buyers who were straight forward so I don't have a desire to screw our vendors around BUT, the survey says the property is probably worth about 20 grand less than what we are paying (which is already a discount on asking price). and there are little bits of work that need doing - fixing a garden wall etc. Do we renogiate, or stick to original deal and maybe ask for a discount for the repairs?

[scaryfucker]

I don't think this is gazundering, that is when people try to undercut just for the hell of it I think.

It has always been this way, you get a survey done, if anything comes up then there is the option to renegotiate. The vendors may refuse however. Or they may offer to get the work done themselves, there are a few options.

[poppy34]

agree with scary... if survey is saying less plus work to do you'd prob not get the loan therfore bit different.

plus in vendors putting themselves in bad position in this market if they don't renegotiate - if they get another buyer they are likely to come up on same issues in a survey

[oranges]

But do surveys often say a property is overvalued? I've never heard of that nefore. esp as the same surveyors gave a valuation to our lenders which is the same as the price we agreed on ie 20k more.

[oranges]

we've been told we can get the loan we need, as we have quite a big deposit from sale.

[lalaa]

i think it depends how much you like the property and how long you are proposing to live there. also depends on whether your mortgage is going to be affected, in which case you don't have a choice. it sounds as though the little bits of work aren't going to make much of a dent in that 20K anomaly.

gazundering is much more about changing your offer days before exchange, once all the legals have been done, imo, putting the vendors in a very difficult position - bullying them into reducing the price. if you seek to renegotiate now, you are being very upfront about it, and they can choose whether or not to drop the price.

[CarGirl]

So you are saying the same surveyor as quouted 2 different vaulations? Has there been a time lag between the two?

[lalaa]

loads and loads of surveys are coming back with values below asking price. had a surveyor around here a few weeks ago saying it's a nightmare for them.

[oranges]

No time lag between the two surveys - carried out on the same day which is why I'm confused.

The house suits us and is much more affordable than others in the neighbourhood so if we lose it, we'll have to spend more anyway.

We don't plan to move for at least a few years but of course anything can happen at the moment.

[daisyj]

I would say definitely not gazundering. We bought a bit of a wreck a few months ago and even our survey said the price was OK if we were prepared to put the work in. IME surveys do not often say that a property is overvalued. I agree with scary - if you had a smaller deposit and therefore were a higher risk for your lender, they would definitely not be happy. It's not the vendor's business how big your deposit is, but certainly is your business to make sure you are not paying more than the property is worth!

[lalaa]

sounds as though they might have just said that to your vendors on the day. they have to check against recent sales in the area too later on, and that might have driven down the price. the surveyor works for you, not them, and he/she might have been trying to avoid a scene!

[lalaa]

but worth checking with surveyor to make sure, i think.

[DarrellRivers]

Low valuation on survey very valid point for re-negotiation

[MrsGhoulofGhostbourne]

Does the survey really say that garden wall needs fixing before they will lend? Usually that type of retention is for something serious, like unsafe electrics. Sorry to be cynical, but sounds like you are asking for MNetters to validate your temptation to gazunder...

[Kathyis6incheshigh]

Surely when you made the offer it was subject to survey?
When I bought my house I didn't lower my offer after the survey, though I could reasonably have done, but that was purely because it was a rising market and he would have turned down the offer. In a falling market the odds are more on your side.

[critterjitter]

You'll probably find the EAs quite sympathetic on this one. Mainly because they'll be able to quote the surveyor's comments.

This once happened to me. I told the EAs and they were very reasonable about it. They asked me to send through the report to them (DON'T SEND IT ALL - JUST A FEW EXTRACTS). They then renegotiated the price with the vendors. The vendors however were never happy about this (think they'd spent the money already!).

[CarGirl]

ASk the surveyor why he thinks it is worth £20k less ask him what he is comparing it to etc.

[MrsGhoulofGhostbourne]

And just to beware - whatever the prevailing view here, if you do 'renegotiate' and get aaway with it, there was thread recently that you may like to read where MNers were advising vendors what to do if they had to accept a lower offer - like sprinkling the carpets with powdered milk and suchlike - so may not turn out to be such a bargain if you turn the screw too hard...

[CarGirl]

I would want to know specifically why the surveyor is saying £20k less, it could be that rebuilding a garden wall & getting trees taken down etc are a lot more expensive than you may think. He may just be overcautious as it's a falling market. It also depends on whether you had an offer accepted that already took the falling market into considertion etc.

[Jampot]

i dont think oranges is saying the surveyor thinks it worth 20k less because a garden wall needs fixing, i think that is something she is pointing out. The surveyor is the expert here and advising on behalf of the lender. i think its worth quoting the surveyor on the important things and getting your EA to work a bit harder for his money by renegotiating on your behalf. However you have to work out what this house means to YOU and if you feel its worth it

[oranges]

Thanks for your thoughts. It's really useful to hammer it out on here.

The ea told him to accept our offer in the first place. funnily enough it was about 20k more than I wanted to pay but I'm crap at negotiating. REally not sure what do here. I do think they'll refuse a lower offer which isn't a disaster as we have no chain and can wait to buy again - its just is it worth the hassle.

mrsghoul i'm trying not to be unfair here or to ask permission to gazunder - if i wanted to, it could do that without mumsnet approval! The homebuyers survey which looks at property in more detail is the one that said the place is overvalued, not the basic ones the mortgage companies ask for. And in that thread, the people being gazundered ended up able to buy a cheaper property themselves so it does all balance out.

[lalaa]

Mrs Ghoul - that was when the vendor had offered £25K less than their agreed asking price on the day before exchange - pure bullying. This is quite different.

[LIZS]

External things like a dodgy garden wall rarely in themselves affect a valuation to any worthwhile extent (unless it is lenghty, listed and needs specialist repairs for example) . tbh if I was the vendor I wouldn't be prepared(unless v v desperate) to renegotiate on that basis alone, you need to be able to substantiate the reduction with specific problems. Also bear in mind that they would be unlikely to be able to absorb that size a reduction themseleves so it could have a knock on effect up the chain , delaying and even breaking it. How have you got 2 different figures on the same day anyway ?

[SalBySea]

depends - an undervaluation of about 5 - 10% is normal in surveys - only renegotiate if the survey valuation is A LOT less. I have never known a surveyor valuation to be as much as an ea or bank valuation

in the past:
we pulled out with one where the survey was 50k less
continued with agreed price when it was 10k less
and renegotiated when it was 20k less

on the flip side - a vendor accepted our offer then a few days later came back and said she didnt think she'd asked enough and would we pay an extra 15k. Our reply was that even if she would still take the origionally agreed price we were no longer interested as she wasnt taking the process seriously and we did not wanna pay out for expensive checks and surveys only for her to change her mind again

[oranges]

no idea - mortgage lenders emailed to say our price is fine and survey emailed at same time,by same surveyor on same day says 20k less. i guess i need to clarify what that is about.