Are some vendors just living in cloud cuckoo land?

[critterjitter]

I don't have a place to sell, so am supposedly in demand as a buyer! However, I've offered on a property twice in 6 months, to no avail!

Its on now for £309,0000. (previously on for £339,000 then £329,000). Its a probate (all paperwork done).

Its been on for nearly a year now! I offered them £300k six months ago, but they turned me down in favour of someone who offered higher, but was in a chain. Predictably, the sale fell through and the house went back on the market. And sat there, and sat there.

Six months later (this week), I offered them £250k. Bearing in mind that the market is collapsing and that the mortgage deals I have on offer to me now are very limited.

They reject again! How long before the house is valued at £250k anyway? It needs lots of work and we're in a falling market. So why don't vendors see that?

[Lauriefairycake]

maybe they don't need to sell immedediately even though it's probate. That's one heck of a drop from £340 to £250. Is it not worth as much to you now as when it was £300?

[Megglevache]

They might have invested alot of money in it meaning they have to sell for as much as they can??

Our neighbours have done this.

[onceinalifetime]

There's still a standoff between buyers and sellers but those who don't need to sell will just hold on and rent out if necessary. I wouldn't want to drop from £340k to £250k and if I didn't have to sell I wouldn't. Presumably if it's a probate sale, there's probably no mortgage so the vendors can take the chance of waiting or renting.

[notsoseriousanymore]

Think about it - It's in probate. THERE IS NO MORTGAGE!! Therefore there is no reason to sell in 'this collapsing market' (sorry, Onceinalifetime - just read that's what you said too! )

It's difficult to accept that your house is worth £100K less than it was a year ago (or less!)

I'm in the same position (sold the house to get off the property ladder) and we've decided to rent for another year. We've had 10 years of house prices going up so it's going to take a while for people to get used to prices falling - a lot of people have used the housing market to fund uni fees, cars, weddings etc., for their kids (or have planned it) and don't want to see that disappear.

If you want the house and intend to stay there, pay what you think is a good price and be happy with it.

IMHO, it's not fair to reduce the value by £50K and (if it were me) I'd reject a buyer who did that too.

[critterjitter]

They wouldn't be able to rent it out because it is in quite a state inside (needs new bathroom, kitchen, central heating, boiler, carpets, garage etc). So they've either got to sell it or do it up.

I know a woman who was selling her house in the same street at the same time, and she told me that the agents were 'putting a bit of froth on top' of the price at the time. When I first offered on the property six months ago, even the agent advised me to go in at 300k!

When I offered them £300k six months ago, I had 5 weeks to go on a mortgage offer. I explained that I had no chain etc., so could move quickly. They turned me down in favour of someone else, but obviously this fell through, and they've had to keep reducing it since then.

The market has changed lots in 6 months (as have mortgage offers and multiples) and I feel quite anxious about offering them £250k TBH - fearing 50% price drops etc. I've offered them approx 20% below the current asking price, which I think is quite fair given whats going on in the market and the condition of the house.

[RandomFlopsy]

The beneficiaries of the estate are probably happy to sit back and wait and see if property prices pick up again. They are in no rush to sell, they aren't "motivated" buyers who need to move. There's no mortgage, they don't have to sell at this minute and I imagine they are just taking a bit of time to see what happens in the current market. I would do the same if I was in their shoes.

[OneLieIn]

They might be in need of selling as they will have had to pay inheritance tax immediately and before the selling of the property.

340 - 250 is a massive drop which is totally out of proportion with the market. If you had offered me that, I would have refused too - also they know full well that a while ago you could afford 300K.

[RandomFlopsy]

Fair point but they may well have had other assets to pay off the inheritance tax. It's also possible to get a loan or deferrment for the IHT liability. I think they are probably sitting tight to see what happens.

[critterjitter]

OneLieIn
Myinitial mortgage offer (which I received just under a year ago when things were OKish in the mortgage market) ran out 5ish months ago. I wouldn't get that offer again.

They first put it on for £340k a year ago, but as I said, even the estate agents told me to go in at £300k six months ago. There is a lot of work that needs doing to the house!

I understand what people are saying about the beneficiaries sitting tight, however if they'd have taken my first offer 6 months ago, they wouldn't be in the position of having an unsold house one year after they put it on the market, which they have already had to drop by 30k (to just about what I was offering initially in anycase) and which still hasn't sold!

The market is only going to go down for a while now, so why not just get rid?

[onceinalifetime]

At the same time, why not keep and wait for things to improve? Prices won't stay down forever. You can't make them sell it.

Trouble is, the psychology of buying and selling property is such that they probably won't take your offer as you previously offered £300k and they think you're being cheeky, yet someone else might come along and they'll take it.

[scaryteacher]

There may be for all you know beneficiaries who won't let it go below a certain level. There may be an equity release secured against the property which means they have to sell for a certain price to cover that and the legal costs. If they are using a solicitor for probate then that will cost a small fortune, and may have to be paid out of the proceeds of the estate.

There are many variables in selling a house post probate that have to be considered (my Pils are doing this at the moment), and you don't know all the ins and outs of what's going on.

[noddyholder]

critter i think you are right and 250 is enough.I have just bought something forn 213 that was 299

[goldenpeach]

Watched the TV programme called Open House the other day. The only reason I watched because the house was in Greenwich, expensive borough of London. Well the sellers wanted 485, the estate agent advised 465 and somebody offered 440, which they refused as they needed their imaginary figure for a house in the country (property originally bought for a pittance some years before, so they had plenty of equity). My partnered googled the house and it's on sale now for 425. I think the programme was filmed in 2007. As a lawyer would say, I rest my case.

[bellabelly]

OOhh, goldenpeach, can you do a link?

[LIZS]

Maybe they need a certain amount to clear any assigned debts. Why are you so fixated by this property ? The vendors must now think you're cheeky and not that set on buying if you have waited so long.

[critterjitter]

LIZS
Think, like many others, I've held back from buying in the past few months, as house prices have tumbled! Wouldn't say that I'm fixated by this property, however, as it came back on the market (after their sale fell through), I thought I'd try again.

My 300k offer was 6 months ago, and they turned it down in favour of another buyer (and the sale fell through!). The market (and the mortgage market) has changed considerably since then.

Must admit, that I wouldn't go back to them again now.

[SoupDragon]

Why are you so surprised that they accepted someone else's higher offer the first time?? Of course they did! You can't just assume a chain will collapse, just as you can't assume a chain-free purchaser will complete.

I'm also not surprised they've turned down an offer £59k under the asking price.

[expatinscotland]

they obviously don't need to sell.

i watched 'the price of property' the other day and one buyer, a developer, was at an auction.

now the worth of some of these flats on offer had dropped about £50k, but the vendors had set higher reserves, so the flats just failed to sell.

obviously vendor could afford to hang onto it in that case.

if people really need to sell they will.

[fiodyl]

They don't need to sell, they are just greedy and deluded.

[Upwind]

It may be psychological - the beneficiaries rejected your safe, proceedable offer of £300k in favour of a notional offer from someone in a chain. Now they'd be swallowing their pride to accept £250k as it would be tantamount to admitting they'd made a big mistake.

If, as seems probable, prices continue to fall fast, these greedy sellers will have done you a favour. Maybe in six months time they will be asking for £250k and you will be offering £200k! A lot of people have watched too much of the property porn over the past few years and are convinced that prices keep going up and they are "entitled" to exorbitant amounts. It will take a while for them to come to terms with reality.

justaboutisverydull - why is it much more likely that house prices will stagnate? Because you imagine that to be the case? If you are right you stand to make LOTS of money spreadbetting, where people put their money where their mouths are.

[southutsire]

Maybe the asking price was overcooked. In fact clearly it was, otherwise they wouldn't still be there.

The fact that the OP could afford £300k months ago is utterly irrelevant in a falling market. Why should someone pay x amount for a product that is worth half as much to everyone else (i.e. its market value), purely on the basis that they have the money for it and would have bought it at £100?

Someone is going to have to take the hit on the fact that this house has fallen/is falling in value rapidly: either the OP or the sellers. Not wanting to be the one to take that hit doesn't make her 'cheeky' or her offer 'unfair'. If the vendors have been there any length of time the only hit they'll take is an imaginary one anyway, based on what similar houses sold for 18 months ago - i.e. a fantasy. Bubble has popped!

[southutsire]

oops, meant to type "would have bought it at x amount', not £100! Not sure where that came from!