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Will this new dormer be a permitted development or do I need planning?

(18 Posts)
alphatiger Tue 10-Oct-17 20:41:46

Hi, I have a technical question for anyone with planning experience. We've already had drawings approved to extend our semi, however if we now apply for a loft coversion as shown in red on the attached, will it be a straight forward permitted development? The key issue is, because we've already had our roof extended, does that mean we have now lost this permitted development right (even though it meets all the parameters for a permitted development loft)? Many thanks in advance! Adele x

MumOfTwoMasterOfNone Tue 10-Oct-17 22:13:02

I'm not 100% but I think on the rear of your property it's fine. Your local council will give free planning advice.

LIZS Tue 10-Oct-17 22:19:49

I think raising the roof line will probably require pp. There is a maximum increase allowed within permitted development , although this has been relaxed recently, which would include any previous extensions and loft conversion.

alphatiger Tue 10-Oct-17 22:26:04

My Council charges a couple of hundred for 'free advice' : (

LIZS Tue 10-Oct-17 22:27:50

If you submit it as pd application they will soon tell you if you need pp instead.

alphatiger Tue 10-Oct-17 22:30:01

The drawing for the rear of the house shows I am not raising the roof higher than the original roof. On the side view yes it looks to be high but it's still below the maximum height.

So are you saying I need to calculate the previous roof extension in cubic metres and see what is left of the 50m3 allowance?

BubblesBuddy Tue 10-Oct-17 23:42:15

I would say, reading Class B permitted Development section d that this is what you have to do. If the roof of the extension and the proposed dormer window are over 50m3 when added together, you need pp. Could you consider a roof light to get round the problem - if you have one?

QueSera Wed 11-Oct-17 00:13:37

If you are raising the roofline, i dont think it will be PD.

Our council stopped offering free advice too!

You can submit your plans for a PD certificate - but DO NOT submit for actual planning permission! The latter would give the council the opportunity to reject them EVEN IF they were fully pd (this happened to us, on being badly advised by an architect). Our revised plans were submitted for purely the pd certificate and even then the bastard council made us change things that were fully pd-compliant. Good luck!

QueSera Wed 11-Oct-17 00:18:02

Sorry I misinterpreted! You are not raising the roofline. Sorry.

But yes there is a maximum amount of cubic meters that you can add in total, including past extensions.

alphatiger Wed 11-Oct-17 00:49:35

Many thanks for everyone's advice.
I've calculated the existing extension is 43m3, a decent dormer is going to have to be greater than 7m3 so I guess I can't go down the PD route.

I therefore think the only way is to apply for PP and mirror the next door neighbour's dormer as much as possible in size/design so it looks mirrored. If still rejected I can appeal to the inspectorate. I guess the worst case scenario is then just getting the 7m3 PD with lots of rooflights! hmm

guilty100 Wed 11-Oct-17 07:35:49

It depends a great deal on where you are, I think. Putting a dormer on a house in some areas will be fine, in other areas (e.g. national parks) it may be a huge violation.

PoppyPopcorn Wed 11-Oct-17 07:41:45

Depends on where you are - in my area any alteration to the roofline whether you're raising it or not requires planning.

alphatiger Wed 11-Oct-17 09:38:27

Hi, in response, it's just a urban area in Harrow without any special restrictions.

Yes it's a bit unfair how some people, like my friend, who lives in a lax Council area gets away with so much development but here in London it's so strict!

guilty100 Wed 11-Oct-17 11:58:06

I wish I knew enough about planning to be able to help.

I would get in touch with your local planning department and ask them directly. In my opinion, it's worth making absolutely sure with PP - it's a tiny cost in comparison to a build, and it can a whole world of headaches if it turns out that advice you've had is actually wrong.

I went for full PP on an extension that was PD because it was right on the edge of PD (there are so many places where there is room for interpretation - in my case it was ground levels) and I didn't want anything that would come back to bite me in future. The process was quick, smooth, and stress-free, the planners were lovely, and it got conversations with neighbours in early so that we could get their views and incorporate them to our design (no-one objected).

Seeline Wed 11-Oct-17 12:07:37

Is the previous addition an actual increase in the size of the original roof? I can't see from the plans where this is. If it was an addition to the roof space, then case the combined additions have to be less than 50 cu.m to be PD.

this official technical guidance might be of help

SpikeGilesSandwich Wed 11-Oct-17 13:47:58

We have a small dormer window but would love a bigger one. Next door was told they couldn't have one at all, even though there was precedent in the terrace but to be honest, I think next door neighbour has pissed the planning department off because they say no to everything he asks for.

They seem to vary wildly in their responses to people in my experience so try to be really nice to them! wink

alphatiger Sun 15-Oct-17 16:28:45

Hi, yes the house to have a side-extension so technically the internal roof-space has been increased even though it's not boarded or used. Is this deemed as an 'extension' against the 50 cu.m permitted development?

Surely if most of the street has dormer's a similar/reasonable sized dormer application can't be refused?

BubblesBuddy Sun 15-Oct-17 22:08:00

It may not be refused but if it doesn't fit into the rules for PD, you have to apply for pp. 7 m3 is a big dormer! Why don't you get advice from an architect who might know how to calculate the m3 involved?

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