Advice on renovating rooms and size requirements

[dippypanda]

We are looking at whether it's worth renovating and updating our 150 yo victorian end terrace 2 bed into a 3 bed by adding a partition wall to our large bathroom (3.5m x 3.8m), as well as moving our tiny kitchen into the dining room (3.5m x 3.8m) to create a kitchen diner and then using current kitchen space as a utility room and extra wc.

However I'm beginning to suspect that it may become too cramped if we do this, rather than move house. What do others think?

Our other dilemma is that we currently have a small mortgage (40k) which we could release equity on the property to renovate. Otherwise to buy a 3 bed newer property in our area, we're looking at least a new mortgage of £140k.

I've attached our current floor plans as a guide.

Any advice from those more experienced would be appreciated, as this is our first time at such a large project.

[monsieurpoirot]

Seems like a great idea. Im wondering I feel you could consider a loft conversion now or in the future too? Im a bit confused by your floor plans! Is the garden behind the dining room or is that a corridor? Or is the garden behind the living room? Just wondering if there was a possibility to square off the downstairs a bit?

[dippypanda]

I don't think the loft has the required height unfortunately and access to the loft would be difficult when we've discussed it.
The section behind the dining room is the yard! Sorry my label was missing on that part. We though about extending back into the yard by a metre but it wouldn't leave us with much yard space at all...

[dippypanda]

Sorry the section behind the living is our neighbour on the corner at the back of the house, it's an odd shaped end terraced house! We have a neighbour on our right facing the property.

[namechangedtoday15]

I would say no. Valuations are generally based on square footage so whether you make it a 3 bed or keep it as a 2 bed is unlikely to make a massive difference to the value. It might make it more saleable or increase your target market (so push the value a little bit) but I don't think you'd make your £50k back. I don't think you actually have a big enough bathroom anyway to get another bedroom there.

I also wouldn't lose your kitchen for a utility. Maybe look at converting the outhouse?

[dippypanda]

That's an interesting point about perhaps going further back through to the outhouse, I hadn't thought about that. Our kitchen is so narrow, I can touch both sides with my arms open... personally I would prefer a room with kitchen and diner so i can have my family around me when I'm in there rather than the other side of the house.

When we've measured the space for bathroom, we want to get rid of bath and have a shower/wet room to the left of the room for plumbing and the right hand side there is space for a 70sqft bedroom, which seems upon research, ok for a small bedroom.

[monsieurpoirot]

I agree it wouldn't add value, but it's a better layout (downstairs) and gives you a third bedroom. There is easily room for a small bathroom and single bedroom.

[namechangedtoday15]

I think you need to draw it exactly the scale. A single bed is 70cm (usually plus a little bit) x 2m long. You then have to have a doorway which is usually 90cm with a door arc of about 80cm. Internal walls will be 10cm, maybe a little bit more if they have plumbing behind them.

[dandeliondelilah]

Single beds are 90cm not 70cm
namechanged. Normally 3ft wide. A 2ft6" single would be a small or child's single, about 75cm

[EpoxyResin]

I think if doing this renovation would mean you find stay in this house for a good number of years (I.e. if everything else about the house is great) then I would totally do it. I think what you're proposing is a good idea, and regardless of whether you make the full investment back you have to think of it like this as well; much of the investment you'd get back, and the rest you imagine spread out over the years you plan to stay living there and consider it the cost of avoiding the expense, hassle and uncertainty of moving, and avoiding the increased mortgage at a time of economic uncertainty.

Maybe have a look at what sort of houses you could get in your area in your budget, and how often they come up. Your layout may not seem all that cramped in comparison.

[dippypanda]

Thank you for everyone's input so far, it's good to get some impartial advice.

We would definitely plan to stay for a number of years, we like the area, its fine for schools, a two minute walk to shops, a lovely local park and about a ten minute walk to the beach so we are quite lucky in that respect. We both also work within a 15 minutes drive so again the area for us is ideal.

With it being an old Victorian terrace, we have the benefit of the high ceilings and larger proportion rooms in comparison to newer build properties. It's just an awkward layout compared to some for extending.

We were hoping to invest about 30-40k but obviously depends on the professional advice. I'm not sure if this would cover everything though and I am concerned about the structural aspect with it being such an old property.

With regards to the extra bedroom, I'm currently 28 wks pregnant with our DS, and already have DD age 6, so the room would be for DS when he eventually requires his own bedroom, to begin with we thought one of those adjustable beds would suffice until he's older to utilise the space better.

[katymac]

Can you move the kitchen, make the old kitchen into utility then bathroom (maybe using the outhouse)

Then keep a toilet upstairs and make a bigger bedroom?

[dippypanda]

That is a possibility katymac, I've not really thought about renovating the two outhouses to be honest.

However, I thought downstairs bathrooms were a bit off-putting to buyers, especially when we do eventually want to sell.

[katymac]

Bathrooms off kitchens are not nice imo (and not allowed anymore I think)

& no loo upstairs is a nightmare!! Esp with young children(potty training/vomiting etc)

But this is your house that you want to live in - how would it fit with your life style?

[EpoxyResin]

Oh god, defo leave the bathroom upstairs!

[dippypanda]

I previously had a downstairs bathroom and didn't particularly like using it as it always appeared cold/damp despite heating.

Plus I think with two young children it doesn't seem appealing.

I've put together a proposed layout for the bathroom, I also like the layout a pp put together, though we would need to completely redo the plumbing, whereas putting the bathroom to the left utilises the existing pipework....

[katymac]

Could you reverse the bathroom & bedroom then is ther enough room to have 2 doors off the landing?

You could make the bathroom more of a square & the bedroom l shaped?

[dippypanda]

Unfortunately the way our stairs go up to the current bathroom there is no way (that I can think of) that we can have the doors off the landing - I would need to take a photo when I get home to show how it's built.

I've put together this layout based on PP as well.

[katymac]

That's a shame

How about the chimney breast is that being used?

Ifnot can you break into it to use it as shelving/wardrobe?