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Right of way not showing on title plan / deeds

(30 Posts)
tiba Wed 24-May-17 20:25:32

Does it mean it does not exist?

We are end of terrace and the empty property adjoining has a gate into our back garden which as far as I can tell hasn't been used.

The empty house has recently sold and new owners will be moving in in the next few months.

We would like to extend and it would mean that the right of way over our land would need to be dissolved or moved.

I've just checked title deeds, title plan and searches from when we bought the house and nothing mentions any right of way to next door.

We have also been told by a company that backs onto the end of our garden, that our rear boundary line is where our trees are and not where the fence is.

This company want to remove said fence and create an access point to next door house on the other side.

I cannot for the life of me work out from the title plan if what he says is correct or not as it's just a red line drawn on a roughly drawn map.

What can I do here too?

monsieurpoirot Wed 24-May-17 20:47:28

You need to involve a solicitor ASAP.

tiba Wed 24-May-17 20:49:23

On which issue?

No one is disputing the right of way (as house next door is empty), and as we just assumed there was one it's not something I want to start disputing yet.

So are you suggesting the rear boundary question is worth getting a solicitor for?

wowfudge Wed 24-May-17 20:53:55

You need to check the title register and plan for next door and see whether they mention a right of way. Are there any references in your title register to past conveyances? If so, they might mention the RoW.

The boundary could tricky as you can't scale the line accurately on the ground, there is info about this on the Land Registry website. Is there a feature the boundary line can be measured against or lined up from, e.g. a structure shown on the plan or a path or road? A satellite view from Google Earth or Streetview can help to work out what the plan relates to.

wowfudge Wed 24-May-17 20:55:32

Just because there's a gate between the two gardens doesn't mean there's a RoW - it might just have been an arrangement between two past neighbours because they were friendly.

ElspethFlashman Wed 24-May-17 20:57:13

You definitely need a solicitor. They can investigate all the properties and get an engineer to recheck boundaries etc.

And if you want to extend you need to know if a ROW exists or not.

wowfudge Wed 24-May-17 21:00:37

The OP only needs to consult a solicitor if she can't clearly establish where the boundary is and whether next door have a right of way. Without seeing the documents and what is on the ground no one posting here to say anything with certainty.

tiba Wed 24-May-17 21:03:51

wowfudge thank you. I have just compared land registry title plan with the satellite maps and it looks very likely that our boundary line is the trees rather than the fence

tiba Wed 24-May-17 21:05:32

attached is title plan in case it helps give anyone an idea. But these things are so sketchy at best

Bluntness100 Wed 24-May-17 21:07:13

You can also get clarity from the land registry as well. I thought right of access has to be on your deeds as well. A solicitor won't charge much but worth getting one involved.

monsieurpoirot Wed 24-May-17 21:10:29

Sorry if I sounded a bit alarmist! It sounds like you have tried to clarify the situation yourself, however it is still not clear. I would be concerned if a company was challenging my boundary line, and would want to seek legal advice on this before they went any further. I also thought clearing up the ROW issue (and potentially removing the gate) before your new neighbours moved in would be prudent.

tiba Wed 24-May-17 21:46:17

Attached is the charges listed on the title deeds of the house. I have gone through the searches that list the charges, and the charges on the searches do not mention anything about right of way.

Do i get in contact with land registry to clarify if there is a row?

Spickle Wed 24-May-17 21:56:08

Rights are shown on Section A of the Property Register. The bit above is Section C which is not the right section.

eurochick Wed 24-May-17 21:59:59

Charges are about money rights (oversimplifying somewhat), not rights of way.

DancingLedge Wed 24-May-17 22:01:23

It can be so difficult to work out actual boundaries on the ground from the plan.
But in this case, it looks like the boundaries at the back all line up. Does your fence line up with the others in the whole terrace ?

DancingLedge Wed 24-May-17 22:08:13

Terraces in this part of the country commonly have access to their back gardens across other gardens in the row. Is this the sort of right of way here?

Never been in this position, but I know people who've extended, and the ROW was just taken to now flow around the extension.

My impression is that ROW can be acquired through usage, even if not in writing. Obviously, you need a better answer than an impression.

origamiwarrior Wed 24-May-17 22:09:05

The charges relate to the mortgage on the house (a building society holds a 'charge' over the house).

Buy next door's deeds (only a few £ from Land registry) to check there is no mention of ROW on their house (mistakes do sometimes happen). If there is no mention, you can assume there is no ROW and act accordingly. There is a chance that next door will claim they have created a prescriptive right of way, but they would need to demonstrate consistent use (without permission, stealth or force) for the last 20 years.

tiba Wed 24-May-17 22:11:32

i have just bought next doors title deeds, no mention of right of way / right of access there either

SquinkiesRule Wed 24-May-17 22:22:38

Our house used to have a gate between us and the house adjoining us, and one to the back neighbor. No rights of way here, just a bunch of people who were friends put gates in. We now have a solid fence at the back and a garden wall between us and next door.
If I was unsure I'd take both sets of plans and have the solicitor who did the conveyancing make it clear.

tiba Wed 24-May-17 22:38:15

The title deeds go straight from Title Absolute which lists the owners, how much they paid and if its mortgaged.

To section C: Charges Register.

Nothing else listed.

wowfudge Wed 24-May-17 22:41:58

What you can tell from the title plan is that the back end of your boundary isn't exactly in line with the others two you can see - yours is slightly slanted. Screenshot an aerial photo and replicate the borders on the photo and send that and title plan to the company who are claiming the boundary is different. See what they come back with and take it from there.

Judashascomeintosomemoney Wed 24-May-17 22:44:38

How long have you owned the house and has the fence always been there?

tiba Wed 24-May-17 22:54:42

We have only been there since January this year.
No change in fence as far as we are aware.

Judashascomeintosomemoney Wed 24-May-17 23:12:10

Ok, do you know who owned before and how long the fence has been there? I only ask as if it's never been mentioned that the fence is not the boundary then you may be able to apply for adverse possession. Got to have been 12 years though and I guess as your new ish to the property it might be hard for you to prove enough if true.

johnd2 Thu 25-May-17 08:59:32

Also it has to be your fence not theirs, because it has to be you excluding others from the land

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