Buying house, roof issues

[Tobuyornot99]

Any advice appreciated. House purchase going through, a friend who is a surveyor had a look round for me and saw a hole in the roof. Vendor flatly denied the hole, despite having put a bucket under the hole
After some back and forth-ing she got "her builder" out who said it's a £140 job.
I had a roofer out today as I don't trust her, he said yes, it's a £140 job to replace the tile, but had the builder actually looked about £1500 of work needs doing (referring bottom 2 metres, 7 cracked tiles, excess moss). This would be with some urgency, e.g.before winter.
Aside from her pulling a fast one and annoying me, what's a fair resolution? The price agreed is really top end for the house, and I feel this extra work is pushing it. She's quite hostile, and feels I'm "messing her about" by having a roofer over.
WWYD in my situation? I'm not a seasoned house buyer, so any advice appreciated

[LeBoob]

Watching with interest, the house were buying has a large damp patch in the attic bedroom, this has apparently been seen to by fixing some flashing. I'm not convinced, waiting on a damp and timber report before we decide what to do!

[SenseiWoo]

I'd have 2 concerns: (1) roofing is v. expensive, £1.5k might well not be the end of it; (2) your vendor is not straight, what else is she hiding?

So I would want a reduction in price and some form of undertaking from the vendor that she had made full disclosure of known defects (talk to your solicitor).

[Tobuyornot99]

Sensei thanks for that. I've never heard of a full disclosure, will that actually have teeth, I imagine her feigning ignorance to a bloody sink hole in the garden
The roofer I engaged said he imagine's we'll get 7-10 years out of the roof with the remedial actions (but of course this is no guarantee).
I'm glad you think it's reasonable to get a reduction in price, that's where my thoughts were heading.

[Villagernumber9]

How old is the house? Sounds to me that you might need a new roof.
If you can, go back and check in the attic. You will be able to see if the felt under the tiles is rotting and breaking off.
If you have several tiles cracked, my guess is that they are over 50 years old and are brickle.

[JaneEyre70]

I would pay to have a full structural survey done, it's worth the extra money in the long run and this would include any roofing issues that you would then go back to the vendor with and re-negotiate the price. My sister has bought a house (known in the family as the shit-pit) that is 500 years old and she had only a cursory survey done. Biggest mistake she ever made, she's spent thousands and still has a leaking roof........ so I'd make sure that I had my eyes wide open before continuing.

[Tobuyornot99]

Thanks Village. The original roof is 60s, the extension is about 15 years old. The felt closest to bottom needs replacing (typo in op says referring but should have said refelting), the roofer I engaged (on recommendation from my friend / surveyor) was very confident that a bit of work now would see the roof through 7+ years ish, but that if we don't do the works then this could deteriorate quite quickly. The surveyor said most of felt is good, but is getting brittle at bottom (does that make sense? I'm on a crash course about the art of roofing!)

[Tobuyornot99]

Thanks Jane, my friend is a chartered surveyor and did a full survey (not on letterhead paper as she's on mat leave so isn't allowed to officially work). And it was her who recommended the roof survey, which I did. Would you do anymore?

[Villagernumber9]

Both the tiles and the felt are at the end of its life. You can replace it at the bottom as a quick fix but, the rest I'm afraid will follow. For a standard 3 bed house, your looking at at least £3,500.

[Tobuyornot99]

I'm going to have to get on and negotiate then aren't I? I'm leaning towards trying to get £1500 off for the remedial works, and then saving for a new roof in due course. The suburb that we like is 60s/ 70s builds so I know we'd have the same issues with any other house we liked, driving by far too often shows most of the houses for sale have the original roofs. Home ownership is certainly full of pit falls!

[yomellamoHelly]

If you're absolutely sure this is all there is and that the roofer will undertake this work (incl VAT) for that price, I'd pursue a reduction.
FWIW two weeks after we moved in and the first time it rained we had a whole series of drips in the area under a flat roof and loads of staining. (Room was beautifully decorated by the vendors at that point.) Everyone who looked at it said the whole thing (incl structure) needed replacing as it had been neglected for so long and couldn't believe they'd not known about it. None of them dared even to walk on it as it looked so "soggy" on close inspection. Took us 2 years of saving ( by which time the paint job on the ceiling looked appalling) and a cost of £10,000 to sort that particular job out!
So I'd be inclined to revisit and consider which areas look too perfect as well given her current attitude.
.

[thenewaveragebear1983]

I agree to get the survey done. I'd be concerned that the vendor was guilt tripping you not to get one- it's your right to do so!
We had a leaky flat roof within days of moving in and it hadn't shown as needing immediate work on our survey. As pp above said, it was beautifully decorated underneath - but was patched under the felt with plastic sheeting and builders foam!
With regards to the reduction though- if you reduce your offer by £1500, will that actually leave you £1500 in available cash to do the work? (Ie if you're paying a 10% deposit of the total price, a 1500 reduction will only reduce your deposit amount by £150. If all your finances are accounted for then this might be tricky?) The other option is to get your survey and ask the vendor to complete the necessary work before the sale goes through, then honour your agreed price,

[Miniwookie]

Totally reasonable to ask for a reduction and if the vendor doesn't like it she can find another buyer who will no doubt fond the same problem so she'd be very silly to quibble over £1500.

[Tobuyornot99]

Thanks all! bear1983 you are right, why will happen is the mortgage will be a tenner cheaper for the next 30 years, but we won't have the money to fix the roof I'll try to see if she can do the works (but her builder is a cowboy / or just saying whatever she wants him to). Wonder if I can persuade her to use my builder?
Sorry that you all uncovered awful problems after moving, bet you were murderous?!

[pdunne]

Something that is possible to ask for is a retention from the proceeds of the sale to be held by your solicitor to carry out these works. The full amount of money then gets released to you on presentation of invoices for the work. You'll need to check with your solicitor but this usually gets around the mortgage lender treating the owner giving you money as a change in the price.

We had to do this as our house was a probate sale so there wasn't any money to pay for the remedial roofing work to be done before selling.

[thenewaveragebear1983]

On the flipside op, when we were selling our buyers tried to negotiate a similar amount off for some damp proofing which they bloody well knew about because we told them on viewings. The EA and our solicitor very firmly told them that 1) to renegotiate the terms of your mortgage for such a small amount would delay the whole process for the whole chain, and you might find that the new mortgage offer you get ends up costing you more than &1500 in the long run, and 2) that you should expect to spend in the region of 1% of the value of your house on maintenance every year (this is s ball park figure that they use, apparently). I'd expect your vendor may come back with a similar answer.

Get the survey done for your own peace of mind. Ours enabled us to plan for the next few years of what we will need to do, such as roof work, chimney, rendering etc. And brought to our attention some questionable electrics.
The flat roof was an unforeseen cost unfortunately but I think every house will throw some kind of curve ball at you!

[SnowGlobes]

And now she's saying she's going to disconnect the utilities? (On your other thread)

[Tobuyornot99]

snowglobes I know! She seems to have taken offense at me having the survey and thinks I'm being awkward
bear that's exactly my dilemma. It's not her fault or mine that there is £1500 to be spent on a roof, and another £1500 on a new boiler, but that's what the survey found. I feel like I've paid what the house is worth and and don't want to throw another 3k at it, she obviously doesn't want to lose 3k, how to proceed?

[thenewaveragebear1983]

That's the stupid thing about the system isn't it? You make your offer and then find out what condition the house is in. It's ludicrous really.

I would just consider whether you love the house enough to proceed. Would you lose your buyer if you pulled out? Would you lose any money? How long would it take you to save up for the work to be done? Can you get grants/funding for boilers these days (never had to buy one!) how long will the roof last without doing the work, or could you tie it in with any future projects if you wait?

We bought ours in spite of all the work it needed. We knew it wasn't in 'move in' condition anyway so knew that we needed to spend some money over the next few years. Fwiw we have spent 17,000 in 4 months in general maintenance, electrics, new front and back door, chimney repairs, sorting out the garden and decorating. Even though none of those things have added value (as in, we haven't added extra rooms or anything like that) we had a valuation from an EA friend of ours and he reckons we could ask £50,000 more than we paid if we sold now.

If you think the house you're buying is in a good area that's marketing well then it's not money lost, even if you have to pay more out at first.

Sounds like your vendor is cheeky though, and she isn't doing herself any favours unless her house is a one of a kind that you couldn't buy anywhere else.

[thenewaveragebear1983]

The major red flag for me would be how awkward she's being about the survey. The only things our buyer was cagey about turned out to be the biggest expenses (in our case the chimney wasn't lined and cost £2000 to fix which we hadn't planned for and also meant we had no fire in November and December while we waited for it!)

[SnowGlobes]

A red flag for me too I'm afraid. Denying any knowledge when there's a bucket there. Threatening to disconnect services unless you proceed. Mmm?
I guess it depends if you can take a £3k hit and really really want THIS house. If the answer is no to either can you look elsewhere or have you got a buyer waiting to proceed for your property? I think she's being very naive unless houses near you are going super fast.

[Tobuyornot99]

Our buyer is desperate to live on our street, and the EA seems to think he'll wait a while if needs be.
The house we're buying has been on and off the market since June, the vendor said one couple got to exchange stage then split up, I'm beginning to wonder if this is true. I'm also worrying that we may be paying slightly over the odds as it's 4 beds. There are loads of 3 beds for 150-170, this is a 3 bed with a double extension giving 4 beds / ensuite / play room and utility. We are paying 206. I'm now wondering whether we should get a 3 bed and extend

[Fluffyears]

Jeez this is why I love the Scottish system. The seller has to have a survey done (available to any interested party when they arrange a viewing) before putting the house up for sale.

[Villagernumber9]

Tobuyornot99. If I was you, I'd run. Seller sounds like a time waster, putting her house on the market for some kind​ of sick laugh.

[Tobuyornot99]

fluffy there is so much to be said for the Scottish system. Would you always trust the vendor though, are there hefty fines for trying to hide things?
Villager the irony is the house is vacant and she is desperate to sell it, she needs the money. I'm more thinking that the other surveys have shown up the same issues and she just feels her house is worth more than it is iyswim.

[SnowGlobes]

I'd go and have a look at some of the 3 beds and get an approx idea of extension costs. At 150/170 you'd have 36/56 to extend with and maybe in all round better condition.